Riverside [[Pontchartrain) Hotel closed

[EastsideAl]

The problem is that the place has been horribly managed by absentee management for a very long time. The building itself has been crumbling from lack of maintenance for years, and the so-called "renovations" were mostly cosmetic, cheaply done, and much of it was left unfinished. The hotel has been suspended in an ugly state of unfinished renovation for the past several years.

Working with the management there, and their underpaid, undertrained employees ahs mostly been a nightmare for anyone who tried it. We tried to run an event at the hotel, only to find most of the elevators not working on the night of the event, the ventilation system broken in the room we were using, promised bars understocked [[down to having no ice) and unstaffed, and no help remedying the problems from management who were unresponsive, downright rude when they responded, and demanded more money [[i.e. bribes) to provide services already contracted and paid for. All that, and guests who booked rooms in the hotel reported problems ranging from lack of AC and sagging stained mattresses, to active insect infestations and, in one hilarious case, a sink without an attached drain [[the answer from the desk staff "Yeah, the sink in that room doesn't seem to work right, does it? We were going to send someone up to fix it in the next few days").

It's really too bad. It was one of Detroit's flagship hotels when it was built, and is housed in one of the city's better looking and most unique modern buildings. In most other major cities the demand, money, and will would be there to fix the problems.

[croweblack]

[quote=davewindsor;63096]

Where do you get this figure from, or are you just dumping random nunbers? The units are already furnished. The problem with the Baptist convention was the a/c died. You just send pay a mechanic to repair the rooftop a/c or replace the unit altogether. I don't see that costing anywhere in the millions.

As noted below your post from east side Al the problems are very severe and that phantom 37million in renovations is complete and utter BS


This place will be abandoned in the near future.

[John]

The new owners will have to dump at least 3-4 million in renovations to reopen and make it viable. Dumping that kind of money into a property worth at the most 1-2 million makes it well on its way to abandonment.

As noted below your post from east side Al the problems are very severe and that phantom 37million in renovations is complete and utter BS

The 37 Million figure might indeed be BS but so are the dollar figures that you seem to have pulled out of the sky.

[EastSider]

Here's the chance of a lifetime for all the arm-chair urbanists and preservationistas. Pissed off about the Lafayette demo? Bored with Sim City? Want to show up George Jackson? Plunk down your hard-earned cash for the Riverfront and show us how development is supposed to work.

Riverside Hotel to be sold; furniture, fixtures auctioned off
Louis Aguilar / The Detroit News

The Riverside Hotel, formerly the Pontchartrain, will be put up for sale in attempt to revive the once-elegant downtown hotel that shuttered last month.

Wayne County Circuit Court Judge John Murphy granted permission Tuesday morning to list the property for sale at the request of a court-appointed receiver, David Findling, who has been in control of the hotel since June. Judge Murphy also granted an auction of the furniture, fixtures and equipment in the 25-story hotel to help cover the basic costs of the building, which includes an on-site engineer, security and utilities. The hotel's parking lot is still being used.

The auction will likely take place at the hotel in about 30 days, Findling said. The hotel went through a $35 million renovation prior to its closing, which included new furniture in the rooms and a redesign of its lobby. All of that will be up for sale in the auction.

"Waiting is not a good thing with this particular property," Murphy said during his Tuesday morning ruling. "Whatever is necessary to stop the bleeding."

The hotel at 2 Washington Blvd., across the street from Cobo Center, is downtown's first major hotel to close amid a national wave of distressed properties.

In early July, Mutual Bank in suburban Chicago foreclosed on the Riverside Hotel's owners, Shubh Hotels Detroit LLC, which bought the hotel in 2005. In late July, Mutual Bank became insolvent and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. appointed attorney Findling as the hotel's receiver. A receiver takes possession of the property, but not its title, and manages the assets and affairs of the business.

Another bank, United Central Bank of Garland, Texas assumed the Mutual Bank's loans.
Commercial real estate information firm Real Capital Analytics classifies $18 billion in hotel loans as distressed, compared to $1.3 billion a year ago. Distressed can mean the hotels are delinquent in loan payments, in foreclosure, in bankruptcy or have been restructured by lenders.

U.S. hotel occupancy, which registered 64 percent in July, is at its lowest level since Smith Travel Research began tracking the figure in 1987.

Metro Detroit's occupancy is just under 50 percent, according to the Detroit Metro Convention and Visitors Bureau. Last year's occupancy rate was 56 percent.
laguilar@detnews.com [[313) 222-2760

If you don't want to do that, at the least this should be a pretty good place to pick up cheap used furniture. It wasn't used very long, so even the upholstered pieces shouldn't be too...soiled.

[unclefrank]

When I worked there [[over twenty years ago) the staff tried hard, but were getting screwed over by Charles Keeting and his Arizona Mafia. RIP Ponch, you were a fun place to work.

[401don]

The furnishings are all new, including lcd tv's. If you want the property to re-open asap wouldn't it make more sense to decide a fair price for furnishings and then accept bids for the hotel with and without the furniture before selling off the furnishings first?

[carolcb]

We walked by there on August 27 or 28th and the curtains were blowing out of all of the window, no screens. Sad. I can remember going there for dinner in high school; I can also remember being in the Addidas suite and they were giving shoes away during the NCAA's indoor men's. Guess that was a really long time ago. Top of the Ponch was something back then.

[jhartmich]

I have a couple good memories of the Ponch but in recent years it seemed they catered to ALOT of very large, LOUD, parties.

High school kids were in there one time when my sister came from Petoskey and rented a room. I took her to the hotel and walked up with her. We got off the elevator and BAM...there were about 25 black kids smoking pot and drinking with many of the room doors open and loud rap music playing [[a tad intimidating for a white chic from Petoskey). LOL... We went to the front desk and said nothing more than “…it was too loud, could we get another room.” The manager said that she had nothing else [[didn't even look) and said that the kids were just having a little fun and paying customers also. UM...ok???? LOL My sister slept on my couch that night and never came back until after the Hilton was built [[which she loves).

I was there on several occasions after that for one thing or another; it still had a very ghetto vibe.

[DarrellBray]

At some point - when a couple more close probably - demand will catch up with supply. As pointed out earlier in the thread though, the city should have been asking 'How can we increase demand?'

[Lorax]

The need to keep a market for these hotels active and indeed, survivable in the near future will require the addition of casinos to the Book Cadillac, Fort Shelby, and any other hotel, Pontchartrain included. Any hotel above a certain number of rooms should be allowed to open casinos in keeping with their size and footprint.

Short of a boom in convention business, which isn't going to happen anytime soon, there will be no need for half of the existing hotel rooms downtown right now.

[iheartthed]

The need to keep a market for these hotels active and indeed, survivable in the near future will require the addition of casinos to the Book Cadillac, Fort Shelby, and any other hotel, Pontchartrain included. Any hotel above a certain number of rooms should be allowed to open casinos in keeping with their size and footprint.

Short of a boom in convention business, which isn't going to happen anytime soon, there will be no need for half of the existing hotel rooms downtown right now.

Uh........................... no.

[Lorax]

Uh..............................yes!

Sorry, but short of a burning desire to hold one's convention downtown, there is no need for the number of rooms currently on the market. This is more than obvious.

Casinos are a reality here and now, and you'd stablize a faltering market, putting at risk the closure of already existing properties. Nothing wrong with it, and an easy short-term solution.

[EastSider]

There's a recipe for economic revival...casinos on every corner!

[iheartthed]

Uh..............................yes!

Sorry, but short of a burning desire to hold one's convention downtown, there is no need for the number of rooms currently on the market. This is more than obvious.

Casinos are a reality here and now, and you'd stablize a faltering market, putting at risk the closure of already existing properties. Nothing wrong with it, and an easy short-term solution.

The Detroit area has about as much casino gambling as it can support right now. Putting casinos in hotels will not attract new gamers to the area. And IIRC, the hotels in Detroit that do have casinos attached aren't exactly filling up rooms themselves. The majority of Detroit casino patrons live within a 50 mile radius of downtown Detroit.

Furthermore... It's hard to call Detroit a faltering hotel market at this stage. The new hotels have been online for what, a year? And over that year the United States economy nearly went into a second Great Depression. You think that sticking a couple dozen slot machines in each hotel will fix that? Please. Detroit's efforts to attract visitors is better spent elsewhere.

[Lorax]

In case you guys haven't noticed, Detroit's situation is that dire, and any solutions, whether ideal or not, short term, or not, gives the city few options. Does anyone care whether the existing casino hotels are booked or not? I'd rather see the Book Cadillac or the Fort Shelby saved for the future than the casino hotels, and if you can't compete with a casino of your own, then you're at a disadvantage selling the same product- hotel rooms.

Pandora's box was already opened when casinos were allowed in the first place, now all of a sudden people are getting squishy about opening more? Give it a rest. Detroit went down this road for a reason- it's broke. And the current economic collapse is just beginning, so you do what you have to do to survive.

[iheartthed]

In case you guys haven't noticed, Detroit's situation is that dire, and any solutions, whether ideal or not, short term, or not, gives the city few options. Does anyone care whether the existing casino hotels are booked or not? I'd rather see the Book Cadillac or the Fort Shelby saved for the future than the casino hotels, and if you can't compete with a casino of your own, then you're at a disadvantage selling the same product- hotel rooms.

Pandora's box was already opened when casinos were allowed in the first place, now all of a sudden people are getting squishy about opening more? Give it a rest. Detroit went down this road for a reason- it's broke. And the current economic collapse is just beginning, so you do what you have to do to survive.

So you propose putting out the fire by throwing gasoline on it. What a novel idea.

[davewindsor]

So you propose putting out the fire by throwing gasoline on it. What a novel idea.

Your response makes absolutely no sense. More casinos create demand, not decrease it. Vegas has 183 casino operators and 140,000 hotel rooms in the middle of a desert and they're still building high rises in that city.

[iheartthed]

Your response makes absolutely no sense. More casinos create demand, not decrease it. Vegas has 183 casino operators and 140,000 hotel rooms in the middle of a desert and they're still building high rises in that city.

Vegas is an international destination for casino gambling. Detroit is not.

And throwing a couple of slot machines into the lobby of each hotel won't change anything about the those two sentences.

[ghettopalmetto]

Vegas is an international destination for casino gambling. Detroit is not.

And throwing a couple of slot machines into the lobby of each hotel won't change anything about the those two sentences.

I think what Davewindsor is saying, is that instead of building a real economy, Detroit should just tax people who are bad at math.

[unclefrank]

have a couple good memories of the Ponch but in recent years it seemed they catered to ALOT of very large, LOUD, parties.

High school kids were in there one time when my sister came from Petoskey and rented a room. I took her to the hotel and walked up with her. We got off the elevator and BAM...there were about 25 black kids smoking pot and drinking with many of the room doors open and loud rap music playing [[a tad intimidating for a white chic from Petoskey). LOL... We went to the front desk and said nothing more than “…it was too loud, could we get another room.� The manager said that she had nothing else [[didn't even look) and said that the kids were just having a little fun and paying customers also. UM...ok???? LOL My sister slept on my couch that night and never came back until after the Hilton was built [[which she loves).

I was there on several occasions after that for one thing or another; it still had a very ghetto vibe.

I worked security there back in the 80's and nothing like that went on then. Any party like that would have been shut down and the kids kicked out on the street. I myself did it more than a few times.

[davewindsor]

I think what Davewindsor is saying, is that instead of building a real economy, Detroit should just tax people who are bad at math.

Well, I call it building a tourist economy. And I wouldn't call it a tax for people who are bad at math, but an indirect tourist/preservation contribution to save the high rises and glorious buildings of downtown Detroit from demolition.

[ghettopalmetto]

Well, I call it building a tourist economy. And I wouldn't call it a tax for people who are bad at math, but an indirect tourist/preservation contribution to save the high rises and glorious buildings of downtown Detroit from demolition.

Got it. Since we failed at establishing an economy based on selling suburban houses to each other, let's build a new economy where we all visit each other.

Fantastic.

[EastsideAl]

Pandora's box was already opened when casinos were allowed in the first place, now all of a sudden people are getting squishy about opening more? Give it a rest. Detroit went down this road for a reason- it's broke. And the current economic collapse is just beginning, so you do what you have to do to survive.

It would bear remembering that we the people of the City of Detroit never voted in gambling. In fact, we defeated it a number of times. It was finally brought in when the state did an end run around us and, with a big push from John Engler - no friend of Detroit - it was passed as a state-wide referendum.

Detroit was not built as a tourist center, nor will its ultimate survival be as one. All of you people out there thinking Detroit can somehow become Vegas 2 are hallucinating. Vegas is a city entirely built by, and entirely dependent on, the casino industry [[which is why, as a one-industry town, they're hurting nearly as badly as Detroit right now).

A better comparison with Detroit might be Atlantic City, which was a once magnificent but down-at-the-heels resort when gambling came in. Now Atlantic City is a down-at-the-heels former resort with almost all of its magnificent buildings gone and a bunch of hulking blank windowless casinos with self-contained parking garages built on its best land. While the rest of the Jersey Shore has come back strong with a return of tourism to the area, including such once given up for dead places as Asbury Park, Atlantic City remains a depopulating ghetto, now with giant low wage paying casinos run by outsiders that have sucked the life out of the local economy and the city itself. People come in from the NYC and Philly areas on buses, gamble, eat, and drink in the casino, and go home having never seen any more of Atlantic City or even the Atlantic Ocean than could be seen from the bus windows.

Detroit is already too much like Atlantic City, but many times the size and without the ocean or a history as a resort. The casinos may have contributed some money here, but they have also contributed to sucking even more of the urban life out of the city. As can be seen pretty acutely these days in Greektown. They are definitely not a long-term, or even a short-term, solution to making our city more alive and lively.

[davewindsor]

Atlantic City is not a good comparison. First, it's a city with a population of what, 38,000 people? The City of Detroit has 780,000. Vegas has 558,000. What kind of granduer and magnificent buildings did a small resort city of 38,000 ever have vs. a city that once had over 2 million people? Comparing a city 5% the size of Detroit is not a good comparison. They've never had the kind of buildings Detroit has had. And, how these casinos would develop in a city the size of Detroit would be completely different and their designs could be subject to local approval if you're so concerned about the Atlantic City experience. And I can just imagine how much worse Atlantic City would have looked had the casinos not arrived.

A bigger question is how Las Vegas is able to sustain 183 casino operators, 140,000 hotel rooms, and still have ongoing high rise construction? Well, for one, a lot of casinos there offer some unique experience. The Venetian Hotel has an indoor town with waterways like Venice. Another offers some fantastic shows. Another has an indoor amusement park. It's a city you can go back to because there are so many unique casinos that offer their own unique experience and that's also why people opt for Vegas than Atlantic City [[which has only what, 25 casinos? Not enough, btw). Detroit has got to reinvent itself to survive and turning it into a casino mecca is probably the city's best chance to survive because industry ain't coming back to this city.

I say Detroit needs to think big and reinvent itself and let in 179 more casino operators like Vegas, not think tiny with a measily three. In fact, let's beat out Vegas and offer 300 casino licenses. I don't see any other size solution to Detroit's decline other than, heaven forbid, amalgamation with the region which is another can of worms no one wants to open up.

It would bear remembering that we the people of the City of Detroit never voted in gambling. In fact, we defeated it a number of times. It was finally brought in when the state did an end run around us and, with a big push from John Engler - no friend of Detroit - it was passed as a state-wide referendum.

Detroit was not built as a tourist center, nor will its ultimate survival be as one. All of you people out there thinking Detroit can somehow become Vegas 2 are hallucinating. Vegas is a city entirely built by, and entirely dependent on, the casino industry [[which is why, as a one-industry town, they're hurting nearly as badly as Detroit right now).

A better comparison with Detroit might be Atlantic City, which was a once magnificent but down-at-the-heels resort when gambling came in. Now Atlantic City is a down-at-the-heels former resort with almost all of its magnificent buildings gone and a bunch of hulking blank windowless casinos with self-contained parking garages built on its best land. While the rest of the Jersey Shore has come back strong with a return of tourism to the area, including such once given up for dead places as Asbury Park, Atlantic City remains a depopulating ghetto, now with giant low wage paying casinos run by outsiders that have sucked the life out of the local economy and the city itself. People come in from the NYC and Philly areas on buses, gamble, eat, and drink in the casino, and go home having never seen any more of Atlantic City or even the Atlantic Ocean than could be seen from the bus windows.

Detroit is already too much like Atlantic City, but many times the size and without the ocean or a history as a resort. The casinos may have contributed some money here, but they have also contributed to sucking even more of the urban life out of the city. As can be seen pretty acutely these days in Greektown. They are definitely not a long-term, or even a short-term, solution to making our city more alive and lively.

[Lorax]

It would bear remembering that we the people of the City of Detroit never voted in gambling. In fact, we defeated it a number of times. It was finally brought in when the state did an end run around us and, with a big push from John Engler - no friend of Detroit - it was passed as a state-wide referendum.

Detroit was not built as a tourist center, nor will its ultimate survival be as one. All of you people out there thinking Detroit can somehow become Vegas 2 are hallucinating. Vegas is a city entirely built by, and entirely dependent on, the casino industry [[which is why, as a one-industry town, they're hurting nearly as badly as Detroit right now).

A better comparison with Detroit might be Atlantic City, which was a once magnificent but down-at-the-heels resort when gambling came in. Now Atlantic City is a down-at-the-heels former resort with almost all of its magnificent buildings gone and a bunch of hulking blank windowless casinos with self-contained parking garages built on its best land. While the rest of the Jersey Shore has come back strong with a return of tourism to the area, including such once given up for dead places as Asbury Park, Atlantic City remains a depopulating ghetto, now with giant low wage paying casinos run by outsiders that have sucked the life out of the local economy and the city itself. People come in from the NYC and Philly areas on buses, gamble, eat, and drink in the casino, and go home having never seen any more of Atlantic City or even the Atlantic Ocean than could be seen from the bus windows.

Detroit is already too much like Atlantic City, but many times the size and without the ocean or a history as a resort. The casinos may have contributed some money here, but they have also contributed to sucking even more of the urban life out of the city. As can be seen pretty acutely these days in Greektown. They are definitely not a long-term, or even a short-term, solution to making our city more alive and lively.

I never said Detroit's citizens voted in gambling- I said since Pandora's box was opened by allowing it in the first place- two different statements.

With a looming 1 trillion dollar national debt, a collapsed economy in nearly every sector, a collapsed housing market and weakened dollar, bankrupt auto industry, the options are few.

If an already existing industry is expanded by adding boutique style as well as larger gaming venues to the mix, and is well regulated and taxed, there is yet another income stream which didn't exist before.

As long as the tax monies are divided between education, culture, maintenance of our infrastructure, etc, Detroit will have yet another chance to re-invent itself. It's a city with perhaps the worst reputation among the nation's cities, deserved or not, and combined with a revamped council and and electorate that holds it's officials responsible to do their bidding, then Detroit will be pointed in the right direction.

Your continued statement of "adding a few slots" to the hotels downtown isn't what I'm proposing. The entire top deck of the parking structure adjacent to the Book Cadillac, it's ballrooms and other public areas could be utilized. The addition on the Washington Boulevard side could accomodate another level or two of additional gaming areas. Not all venues will be the same size, and some prefer smaller venues and higher quality games, so variety would be the order of the day.

Can anyone envision the beautiful Leland House converted to a higher end gaming venue? How about a large addition to the Fort Shelby, the Pontchartrain, the Marriott at the Renaissnce Center?

If it's done with rules and designed in such a way to compliment the older architecture it could be a win for the city.

I have often envisoned the People's State Bank building designed by McKim Meade & White as the lobby entrance for a modern highrise hotel. Couldn't have a more elegant entrance building.

Detroit unlike Atlantic City or Las Vegas has much more to do for those visiting a gaming hotel. The sports venues and restaurants, the shows put on at the Fox or the Masonic, Music Hall, etc, would only add to the varied experiences for those visiting. Why does anyone think the Ilitches saved the the United Artists? Another show venue for an eventual gaming complex is my guess.