GM offers buyouts to 18,000 salaried workers, says layoffs possible

[SammyS]

Buyouts may be offered, but it doesn’t mean they will be fulfilled. I think GM is only looking for options.

[bust]

The first term of every presidency since Teddy Roosevelt has featured a recession.

That wasn't the case for Johnson or Clinton and while it's true Kennedy's and Obama's "featured" a recession, both were inherited and they got out of them pretty fast. Ending one isn't the same as starting one.

But, yeah the last one started in 2007. Historical patterns suggest we're due.

[313WX]

That wasn't the case for Johnson or Clinton and while it's true Kennedy's and Obama's "featured" a recession, both were inherited and they got out of them pretty fast. Ending one isn't the same as starting one.

But, yeah the last one started in 2007. Historical patterns suggest we're due.

With respect with Johnson, while it didn't officially become a recession until after he left office, technically the economy had started contracting in 1968.

But yes, you have a point as far as Clinton. While the economy was kind of "bleh" during his first term, it was still gradually expanding after the 1990-1991 recession.

[archfan]

Buyouts may be offered, but it doesn’t mean they will be fulfilled. I think GM is only looking for options.

I've never seen buyouts proposed that haven't been fulfilled, whether voluntary or involuntary.

[archfan]

No company in the world forfeits production and earnings over the speculative feelings of a recession, that's not how cost curves work and never will, any company making such insane strategy moves would be out of business. All this happens when a recession is happening and in progress, we are not in a recession so that's not a good explanation for these buyouts.

Notice they're reducing numbers of people working on future products, not the people building the product they're selling now.

Your thinking is what the auto companies thought in the past as well. And by the time they realized they were in a recession, they were in deep and had to cut hard.

If GM and Ford are downsizing now ahead of the coming downturn, that's good news for everyone except the folks getting involuntary packages. That means they finally learned from 2008. And 2001. And 1990...

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Republicans are artificially inflating the economy with massive deficit spending. Government is supposed to run up a large deficit when the economy is BAD, the logic being that government spending will spur economic growth. When the economy is good, we're supposed to have small deficits because there is no need for the government to spend like a drunken sailor to keep the economy going. Instead, at a time of strong economic performance, we've run up two consecutive years of massive deficit growth and next year's deficit is projected to hit almost a trillion dollars.

We have deficits now that we weren't seeing since years of the Great Recession. To compare, the last time the economy was as good as it is now [[1999/2000 under Bill Clinton), we had a freaking budget SURPLUS. Trump is keeping those economic numbers high by pumping hundreds of billions of dollars of borrowed Chinese money into the economy rather than let the economy grow itself at a more modest [[but more organic) pace. It's a house of cards and it will come crashing down, we absolutely cannot sustain a new normal of >$1 trillion deficits every year, which is what the CBO is projecting starting in 2020.

And people bitched and moaned about Obama driving up the deficit. PLEASE !! What Trump is doing pales big time in comparison. He's going to have everyone's present and future grandkids, paying dearly for his tactics, when they are adults.

[SammyS]

I've never seen buyouts proposed that haven't been fulfilled, whether voluntary or involuntary.

I was with a large Tier 1 about 10 years ago. Took the offer, was denied.

[Johnnny5]

And people bitched and moaned about Obama driving up the deficit. PLEASE !! What Trump is doing pales big time in comparison. He's going to have everyone's present and future grandkids, paying dearly for his tactics, when they are adults.

I agree that with a strong economy Trump should make cutting the deficit a priority over tax cuts. That said, it's really just two sides of the same coin whether it's Trump or Obama in DC. The annual deficit was far larger during most of Obama's years in office, and was already on the way up again before Trump was elected.

https://www.usgovernmentspending.com...cit_chart.html

[bibs]

I was laid off from OnStar in 2009. I ended up 10 hours away in St Louis. I figured at the time it would take 10 years for the auto industry to come back. We also didn't want to live in a area dominated by one industry. The economy in St Louis is diversified. I'm so glad I made the move because my future is no longer tied to the whims of the auto industry which is changing rapidly.

[Richard]

Republicans are artificially inflating the economy with massive deficit spending. Government is supposed to run up a large deficit when the economy is BAD, the logic being that government spending will spur economic growth. When the economy is good, we're supposed to have small deficits because there is no need for the government to spend like a drunken sailor to keep the economy going. Instead, at a time of strong economic performance, we've run up two consecutive years of massive deficit growth and next year's deficit is projected to hit almost a trillion dollars.

We have deficits now that we weren't seeing since years of the Great Recession. To compare, the last time the economy was as good as it is now [[1999/2000 under Bill Clinton), we had a freaking budget SURPLUS. Trump is keeping those economic numbers high by pumping hundreds of billions of dollars of borrowed Chinese money into the economy rather than let the economy grow itself at a more modest [[but more organic) pace. It's a house of cards and it will come crashing down, we absolutely cannot sustain a new normal of >$1 trillion deficits every year, which is what the CBO is projecting starting in 2020.

Are you sure about all of that?


https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/national-debt-trump/

According the U.S. Treasury’s direct record, a surprising amount of money has been saved over the course of seven months. On January 20th, the day Trump was inaugurated, the total debt was $19,947,304,555,212.49. On July 30th, seven short months later, it’s at $19,844,938,940,351.37. Overall the debt has decreased by $102,365,614,861.12.

[archfan]

I was with a large Tier 1 about 10 years ago. Took the offer, was denied.

Individuals, sure. But once they announce they're going to get rid of X thousand people, they're doing it, whether all voluntary, or involuntary. It has been almost 10 years, so there might be enough pent up demand that they can make their numbers with all voluntary. This round.

[bust]

Are you sure about all of that?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/national-debt-trump/

According the U.S. Treasury’s direct record, a surprising amount of money has been saved over the course of seven months. On January 20th, the day Trump was inaugurated, the total debt was $19,947,304,555,212.49. On July 30th, seven short months later, it’s at $19,844,938,940,351.37. Overall the debt has decreased by $102,365,614,861.12.

This has gotten off topic, but how's that for shamelessly cherry picking statistics to suit an agenda? Not even the source Richard quoted agrees with him. Read the full text and it says the reason our debt did not escalate during the first seven months under Trump had nothing to do with any of his policies and everything to do with a debt ceiling that was temporarily in place at the time. Guess what happened as soon as the ceiling was lifted.

Even staunchly conservative media outlets have been complaining how our national debt has soared under Trump. Here's the Washington Examiner:

National debt jumps $1.2 trillion in fiscal year 2018
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...scal-year-2018

"The national debt rose more than $1.2 trillion in the fiscal year that just concluded on Sept. 30, according to a government website that tracks the debt.

The total national debt was $20.245 trillion on the last business day of fiscal year 2017.

On the last business day of fiscal year 2018, which was Friday, Sept. 28, the total debt had grown to $21.516 trillion. Friday was the first day in history the national debt rose above $21.5 trillion."

In the month since then it has increased another $167 billion and now stands at $21,683,971,652,591.44.

During the 2018 fiscal year the budget deficit grew 17 percent to $779 billion. The Fiscal Times says this was the obvious effect of last year's tax cuts.

Republicans Ignore the Obvious Effect of Their Tax Cuts
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2018/1...Their-Tax-Cuts

Legislation enacted during the the 2018 fiscal year will add an estimated $2.423 trillion to the national debt through 2027.

Congress Added $2.4 Trillion to the National Debt in 2018: Report
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2018/0...bt-2018-Report

Those are the facts.

[Worldsgreatest]

I was laid off from OnStar in 2009. I ended up 10 hours away in St Louis. I figured at the time it would take 10 years for the auto industry to come back. We also didn't want to live in a area dominated by one industry. The economy in St Louis is diversified. I'm so glad I made the move because my future is no longer tied to the whims of the auto industry which is changing rapidly.

Yeah, you just have to worry about all the corporations in STL leaving for Chicago's siren song.

Is this comment satire?

[Bham1982]

Yeah, you just have to worry about all the corporations in STL leaving for Chicago's siren song.

Is this comment satire?

StL has stronger economic and population growth than Chicago [[so does Detroit, for that matter), and is further from Chicago than Detroit is from Chicago, so none of this makes any sense.

Chicago is the only major U.S. metro with population loss in recent years and has the slowest home price appreciation of any major metro. It's a behemoth, but stagnant.

[Worldsgreatest]

I take it you're unaware of Chicago's swiping of companies and one-sided mergers that hurt STL for decades, that was the dig. Got nothing to do with location.

[Wesley Mouch]

Not a good sign for GM. They would probably hire more contractors temporarly just to save money but in the long run they will be losing money for each time contractors are hired they would have to be trained. That will cost GM money. ...snip...

Why do you suppose companies shoot themselves in the foot this way? Are they just plain stupid? Is it possible they know something about finance that you are discounting?

Hint: The ability to quickly adjust your costs has value. If you don't have that ability [[and your not the federal gov't), you have to raise the money to actually make this employee payments, and to fulfill future obligations you've made. Raising money also costs money. Weight the cost of borrowing to pay staff employees against the costs of training, and make good financial decisions.

[Lowell]

What this smells of, to me, is a generational purge. Dump the old folk with their old gas-guzzler-car-making business models and bring in youth with their scooters, ubers, light rails and autonomous and shared electric vehicles--and automate, automate, automate.

GM feels the ground of transportation shifting but is unsure where matters will settle. No one does, but old-fashioned business sense knows nothing beats being lean and sitting on a pile of cash.

From today's FreePress.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

^^ Very good point, never thought of that.

[O3H]

Because China rides bikes, Europe rides bikes, and many can't/don't want to to buy a car, pay for high gas, etc., etc.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...bike/29367413/

Here in the USA everyone has to haul - tow - pull a boat, rv, trailer, 5th wheeler, etc., etc. . It's all all about Huge FuelInjection/Carburetor Power baby. If it ain't got 500hp it's shit....right ?

[aj3647]

Are you sure about all of that?


https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/national-debt-trump/

According the U.S. Treasury’s direct record, a surprising amount of money has been saved over the course of seven months. On January 20th, the day Trump was inaugurated, the total debt was $19,947,304,555,212.49. On July 30th, seven short months later, it’s at $19,844,938,940,351.37. Overall the debt has decreased by $102,365,614,861.12.

U.S. national debt clock
http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Current debt sits at $21,696,592,xxx,xxx. That's nearly 21.7 trillion dollars. According to your source, the national debt was $19.95 trillion when Trump came into office on January 20, 2017. So under Trump's watch, that's $1.7 trillion added to the national debt to date.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

^^ And it will continue to grow when those tax cuts really go into effect, starting next year. MAGA, yeah ok....

[Richard]

^ and the EIC has not been adding to the debt for many years?

[bust]

Ask an economist what's better for the ecomomy: small tax credits spread widely among working people who spend almost all of it locally in their communities, or huge tax credits overwhelmingly for the richest up top.

Just look where some of Trump's new tax deductions are going.

In the market for a private jet? Neither am I. Too bad, because the new tax law makes the cost of the jet 100% tax deductible, immediately.

The GOP’s corporate jet tax loophole sparks a market "frenzy"
https://www.axios.com/gop-corporate-...aae3de061.html

That's not all. The taxes and fees to maintain and operate a private jet are now about 10% what airline passengers pay.

The private plane tax loophole is so egregious even millionaires like me want to close it
The wealthiest Americans have an obligation to speak up when the system is unfairly rigged in our favor.
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinio...ant-ncna838001

Trump of course has flown by private jet for decades. Now we the taxpayers are the ones paying for it.

Trump's $56 Million in Golf Trips, Cost by Extravagant Cost
https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-car...gant-cost.html

[[And lol: those numbers are a half year old!)

His buds are more high flyers. His administration is stocked full of them.

A Look Inside The Private Jets Of Trump Administration Insiders
https://www.forbes.com/sites/douggol...tion-insiders/

A man of the people he isn't.

Oh look, he wants to give a giant tax break to the rich again:

The Trump Administration Wants to Give the Rich Another Giant Tax Cut
If Congress won’t approve it, they’ll go through the Treasury, dammit.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018...-giant-tax-cut

Too bad guys like him don't seem to have much of a penchant for American cars. Our everyman president is a Rolls Royce kinda guy.

Take a look at Donald Trump's extravagant car collection
https://www.businessinsider.com/dona...ection-2017-1/

At least the car he rides in his presidential motorcade is a Cadillac. But it pretty much has to be.

How many of the fellers he shares tee times with are going to spend their tax windfall our way, and how many will send it overseas?

GM seems to know the answer.

[Danny]

Well! so much for Automation Alley.

[O3H]

Another round of BailOuts soon to come on the taxpayer dime