Marijuana Legalization in Canada and Michigan

[Jimaz]

https://www.freep.com/story/news/mar...ay/2217854002/

Spark it and plant it !

Now it's time to legalize the growing of industrial hemp for everyone's benefit.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashoka/.../#283b22f289b1

Thanks for all the info.

I don't use it but I still feel like celebrating. Maybe I'll indulge in a big bag of Doritos — if there are any left on the shelf!

Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead

[Towne Cluber]

Another one...

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...ad-police-said

[jcole]

Another one...

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...ad-police-said

What does that have to do with legalizing pot?

[Towne Cluber]

What does that have to do with legalizing pot?

It was in response to someone that said he had never heard of anyone being killed over pot. It is the second example in as many days.

[aj3647]

Another one...

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...ad-police-said

A direct consequence of the total prohibition of marijuana, which drives the industry underground exclusively into the realm of the criminal black market. Same stuff would happen during Prohibition too, people murdering each other in "alcohol deals gone bad" or in turf wars over who got to illegally sell booze in which geographic domains. Then Prohibition was repealed and all of a sudden you could buy beer without having to interact with a member of the criminal underworld.

Incidents like this will become far LESS likely to happen now that weed is legal and will be increasingly less likely once commercial sales ramp up.

[Towne Cluber]

A direct consequence of the total prohibition of marijuana, which drives the industry underground exclusively into the realm of the criminal black market. Same stuff would happen during Prohibition too, people murdering each other in "alcohol deals gone bad" or in turf wars over who got to illegally sell booze in which geographic domains. Then Prohibition was repealed and all of a sudden you could buy beer without having to interact with a member of the criminal underworld.

Incidents like this will become far LESS likely to happen now that weed is legal and will be increasingly less likely once commercial sales ramp up.

Perhaps, although it might be somewhat wishful thinking given that...

1) illegal drug cartel activity has increased in places like Colorado

2) drug dealers aren’t going to just give up their livelihood so easily and go away quietly—especially in places like Detroit, where a significant portion of the population has very limited job options

3) many users already have their less expensive [[illegal) supplier and might not so easily switch over to a more expensive option just because it’s a legal source. If one wasn’t worried about legality before, a change in the law probably isn’t going to affect them now. People tend to choose less expensive options.

4) Gambling is legal but some people still choose to do it illegally [[and even get killed over it).

[Canadian Visitor]

Perhaps, although it might be somewhat wishful thinking given that...

1) illegal drug cartel activity has increased in places like Colorado

2) drug dealers aren’t going to just give up their livelihood so easily and go away quietly—especially in places like Detroit, where a significant portion of the population has very limited job options

3) many users already have their less expensive [[illegal) supplier and might not so easily switch over to a more expensive option just because it’s a legal source. If one wasn’t worried about legality before, a change in the law probably isn’t going to affect them now. People tend to choose less expensive options.

4) Gambling is legal but some people still choose to do it illegally [[and even get killed over it).

You do realize alcohol was illegal at one point?

That when it was, you had Al Capone among a host of other figures involved in the illicit market for same.

Further than when alcohol was re-legalized not only did it reduce violence and unnecessary criminalization of otherwise law abiding people; it also neutered that aspect of the black market, nearly completely, over a few years.

Many of the big names in the booze business today were bootleggers or cartel types, whose businesses subsequently became publicly traded corporations.

No, legalization did not rid us of drunk driving.

But there are ways of substantially reducing that, as there are other forms of impaired driving. That's a choice about laws, penalties, driver education, and social license.

In the case of alcohol, reduce the legal limit to 0.05. Impound a car for 30 days on a first offence.

If the amount of alcohol is more than double the legal limit, the car is gone for 90 days, plus a five of $500 or 2% of annual income [[based on IRS filing), the greater of the two.

[[for a $50,000 earner, that would be a $1,000 fine)

2nd offence in under 5 years, and the penalty doubles.

3rd offense in 5 years, lifetime driving ban, lifetime car ownership ban.

Driver education should be mandatory to obtain a license.

Driver education should include 3 hours on the law on impaired driving and the consequences legal, professional and otherwise, as well as alternatives, and hosting obligations.

Same sorta thing can be done for any other kind of impairment.

That has no bearing on the decision to legalize responsible personal use, and sale/production for said purpose, to a legal, adult, purchaser.

[aj3647]

Perhaps, although it might be somewhat wishful thinking given that...

1) illegal drug cartel activity has increased in places like Colorado

2) drug dealers aren’t going to just give up their livelihood so easily and go away quietly—especially in places like Detroit, where a significant portion of the population has very limited job options

3) many users already have their less expensive [[illegal) supplier and might not so easily switch over to a more expensive option just because it’s a legal source. If one wasn’t worried about legality before, a change in the law probably isn’t going to affect them now. People tend to choose less expensive options.

4) Gambling is legal but some people still choose to do it illegally [[and even get killed over it).

1) What is your data to support this claim?

2) Who said they would? There's plenty of illegal drugs to sling besides weed. But their weed sales will go down once regular people can just go to the weed version of an Apple store to buy it instead of shady dude in a rundown apartment complex somewhere. So that's still less money funneled into the criminal underworld and more funneled into the state's legitimate economy.

3) Again, what is your data for these nonsense claims of yours? Legal weed is going to be more expensive? Says who? Illegal products already come with a premium attached to the price because of the extreme risks involved in producing, smuggling them, and selling them. And Michigan will actually tax marijuana at a comparatively lower rate than most states. Unless you show me hard data, I see no reason to assume that legal weed will cost an arm and a leg more than the illegal variety to the point that people will BREAK THE LAW and risk jail to save literally just a few dollars. If I told you you could save $1 on a six-pack of beer, but you had to commit a misdemeanor offense to do it, would you?

4) Ah yes, those incredibly common gambling murders. That incredibly common thing. Please, do enlighten us, provide a link to a news story about the most recent illegal gambling murder in Michigan. I mean, it's such a common thing, you should have plenty to choose from.

[Lowell]

A great day in Michigan in many ways, first off for personal freedom. Beyond that the state stands to benefit in revenue to be gained and revenue not wasted in prosecution and incarceration resulting from prohibition arrests. Win. Win. Win.

[Zacha341]

I voted no. And hope that a measure of courtesy evolves in the use of marijuana. I was at my dentists office the other day and the staff were complaining of a patient just leaving the one of dental operatories, left it reeking of marijuana. The smell tenacious and strong.

The room had to be sprayed and not used for it to air out a bit.

Just as I'd not find it welcome to smell liquor upon a person, or walk into a wall of tobacco smoke, likewise I hope to see some attempt of discretion in the use of weed. For sure it sticks to the interior of a car like glue.

That's not a good time, come resale a vehicle. Everyone does not smoke and simply not interested in sharing in the experience.

[jcole]

Changing the law is not going to matter in respect to people smelling like pot, or their houses or vehicles smelling like pot. This law is not going to "make" people smoke. Most of the ones who will probably already did, only now they are legal, or will be once there is a legal purchase steam. I'm sure the guy who funkied up the exam room probably has been smoking for years. And most likely illegally.

I voted no. And hope that a measure of courtesy evolves in the use of marijuana. I was at my dentists office the other day and the staff were complaining of a patient just left leaving the one of dental operatories, leaving it reeking of marijuana. The smell is tenacious and strong.

The room had to be sprayed and not used for it to air out a bit.

Just as I'd not find it welcome to smell liquor upon a person, or walk into a wall of tobacco smoke, likewise I hope to see some attempt of discretion in the use of weed. For sure it sticks to the interior of a car like glue.

That's not a good time, come resale a vehicle. Everyone does not smoke and simply not interested in sharing in the experience.

[Zacha341]

Well, maybe they were or maybe they weren't or he did or didn't......

But with the increasing use/ acceptance/ popularity there follows the increased nuisance of smelling it in public, where you can't opt out. I think the nuisance factor [[from the smell) will remain, even now legal.

If I were a consumer of marijuana I'd opt for the edibles.

I'd not want that smell upon my person, my car. I guess now that it's legal the smell will be adapted to. But the anti-smoke folks may not be too enthusiastic, no more than about cigarettes. Or perhaps so.

I work with the public ala an industry were marijuana odors/ residues are not accepted/ withstanding any vote. I imagine I'm not alone.

So I don't for example ride in a car with anyone smoking marijuana. I don't need the drama especially considering I don't use it.

Changing the law is not going to matter in respect to people smelling like pot, or their houses or vehicles smelling like pot. This law is not going to "make" people smoke. Most of the ones who will probably already did, only now they are legal, or will be once there is a legal purchase steam. I'm sure the guy who funkied up the exam room probably has been smoking for years. And most likely illegally.

[Bong-Man]

Well, maybe they were or maybe they weren't or he did or didn't......

But with the increasing use/ acceptance/ popularity there follows the increased nuisance of smelling it in public, where you can't opt out. I think the nuisance factor [[from the smell) will remain, even now legal.

If I were a consumer of marijuana I'd opt for the edibles.

I'd not want that smell upon my person, my car. I guess now that it's legal the smell will be adapted to. But the anti-smoke folks may not be too enthusiastic, no more than about cigarettes. Or perhaps so.

I work with the public ala an industry were marijuana odors/ residues are not accepted/ withstanding any vote. I imagine I'm not alone.

So I don't for example ride in a car with anyone smoking marijuana. I don't need the drama especially considering I don't use it.

I think we get the point. It's illegal to drive and consume marijuana, and workplace rules must always be followed if you're subject to testing. That's all part of the new law. However your odor complaint is now akin to a vegetarian complaining about the smell of meat cooking at the local Burger King. You may not like it, but tolerance is part of the new equation. Personally, I detest obese people covering up their body odor with large amounts of perfume instead of a daily shower, but my ability to make them take one to please my personal tastes is rather limited.

Edibles and vape pens will be widely available once recreational dispensaries are open and running. My personal experiences in Colorado, Oregon, and Washington, indicate that's how most of the young now consume anyway. The smoking of any product in public, tobacco or otherwise, is much more strictly enforced in all 3 States as opposed to Michigan.

[Towne Cluber]

I voted no. And hope that a measure of courtesy evolves in the use of marijuana. I was at my dentists office the other day and the staff were complaining of a patient just left leaving the one of dental operatories, leaving it reeking of marijuana. The smell is tenacious and strong.

The room had to be sprayed and not used for it to air out a bit.

Just as I'd not find it welcome to smell liquor upon a person, or walk into a wall of tobacco smoke, likewise I hope to see some attempt of discretion in the use of weed. For sure it sticks to the interior of a car like glue.

That's not a good time, come resale a vehicle. Everyone does not smoke and simply not interested in sharing in the experience.

I know of elementary school teachers that have students whom strongly smell of it. Poor [[as in unfortunate) kids and their misguided parents. It is interesting how more and more people reek of it in stores/businesses and think that is somehow acceptable.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Yes! Teachers at the K12 level are at the absolute front line - downwind drift of what some parents allow their children to be exposed to. And the level of direct use in children and teens.

In some cases [[I am not saying everyone) the same parents who'd not expose their children to cigarette smoke, readily smoke weed around them!

There are cases of young children arriving to school with their coats, clothes, and hair smelling or marijuana. Teens moreso smelling of it as their parents smoke around them, while in the car, etc. All making for joyful disruption as the other students comment and react.

The smell and residue of marijuana is more tenacious than tobacco in my opinion. It really lingers and permeates hair and fabric.

[jcole]

And my understanding of the new law is that you aren't allowed to smoke in public or in your car. You can smoke in private residences, not walking or riding down the street. My point in my previous post was, if they smelled a week ago, they'll continue to smell because they smoked illegally and will continue to do so legally. The new law isn't going to make them smell worse.

[Jimaz]

And my understanding of the new law is that you aren't allowed to smoke in public or in your car. You can smoke in private residences, not walking or riding down the street....

I also heard that you can't use it on your front porch or driveway because it's not unusual for the public to approach your house there. Curiously, your back yard may be a different matter [[especially if it's fenced) although neighbor complaints of odor might be regarded as any other nuisance.

Interesting times. I'm curious how this will all wash out after the novelty wears off.

[Zacha341]

Yeah, I think for now there's a certain percentage of folks on-the-nut about smoking marijuana where ever without concern for the nuisance factor.

That will level off -- I'm hoping basic reasonable decorum occurs re. the use. As it will be demanded in certain settings withstanding laws and votes.

If we were talking about tobacco here it would be less of an argument.

I also heard that you can't use it on your front porch or driveway because it's not unusual for the public to approach your house there. Curiously, your back yard may be a different matter [[especially if it's fenced) although neighbor complaints of odor might be regarded as any other nuisance.

Interesting times. I'm curious how this will all wash out after the novelty wears off.

[jcole]

I also heard that you can't use it on your front porch or driveway because it's not unusual for the public to approach your house there. Curiously, your back yard may be a different matter [[especially if it's fenced) although neighbor complaints of odor might be regarded as any other nuisance.

Interesting times. I'm curious how this will all wash out after the novelty wears off.

I watched a Let It Rip on Channel 2 on the 5th and they had a Sheriff, a pot lawyer and an anti pot guy. The cop said you can smoke it in your home, yard and on your porch because they consider that to be private property. The pot lawyer said he would keep it in the back yard or in the house to be safe because he considers the front porch to be approachable and therefore public. The anti pot guy kept yelling the sky is falling...

[Zacha341]

Well yes, no one's smelling worse per se it can be argued.

But the occurrence of smelling pot has gone up appreciably [[adults and teens). And 'where' you are smelling it getting pretty rude, and disruptive. Recall the smell of 'Ned the wino'... or the office drunk-drinker, etc. - that was never a good time LOL!

And I do think most people will be reasonable and respectful of others as times as goes by, now that the law has passed for recreational use. I am hopeful, especially decorum around kids. Or the law and courts will step in just as the do now re. use of alcohol.

And my understanding of the new law is that you aren't allowed to smoke in public or in your car. You can smoke in private residences, not walking or riding down the street. My point in my previous post was, if they smelled a week ago, they'll continue to smell because they smoked illegally and will continue to do so legally. The new law isn't going to make them smell worse.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Yep, how many times I've "thankfully" paused a few seconds at a just turning green light, only to have a car running an opposite red light sail thru. Driving about in the D is getting worse not better, and hopped up people at the wheel is not going to help. No more then the existing drunks!

You cannot live in fear. I certainly get that, but I have curbed my driving considerably in the brave new world out there re. traffic. Minimizing risk at this point as people decide 'how' they're going to drive. Responsibly or not?

[O3H]

So who stayed off the road this weekend - to avoid the geniuses ?

[Zacha341]

^^^ Hah! I mostly avoid very late night driving, especially once the bars let out. That was nuts already.

And 'grouping' up errands so as to not zig-zag all over town saves in gas too. Win-win!

The sky's not falling, but the increase of reckless/ feckless driving is real.

Looking out for the driver is most crucial!!

[jcole]

^^^^ I don't want to speak for Bongman , but I go to Colorado once a year and seldom see people smoking in public anywhere. Don't know if it's enforcement or just personal choice, but I don't see butts laying around anywhere either. And I do go to the dispensaries out there and if Michigan does half as good a job as they do keeping things orderly there won't be a big deal. Aside from edibles, there is a lot of vaping going on too

[detroitsgwenivere]

^^Those two weren't killed because of marijuana, they were murdered over money. It just happened to be that the transactions involved marijuana.