Most Valuable Downtown Detroit Real Estate

[Towne Cluber]

LOL. Stadia, without host teams, are basically worthless. The land is more valuable than the bldg.

LOL, the stadia land was abandoned for decades and sold for $1.

[Gistok]

LOL, the stadia land was abandoned for decades and sold for $1.

What? The Gem and Century Theatres [[relocated), the 10 story YMCA and 11 story YWCA [[demoed), the 17 story Wolverine Hotel [[demoed), the Elwood Bar [[relocated), and Detroit College of Law [[demoed) were all located within the stadia "perimeter" [[not footprint). Before the stadia plans these were either restored and in use, or mothballed securely [[not the Ilitch type of abandonment). Most of these were owned by Chuck Forbes, who received $14 million for his properties, as well as the multi-million paid relocation of the Gem/Century and Elwood Bar.

Not sure where you got the $1 amount from... since the stadia are still owned by the Wayne County Authority [[no property taxes paid on them by either Ilitch or Ford).

I will agree that there were a lot of parking lots in that area.

[Towne Cluber]

What? The Gem and Century Theatres [[relocated), the 10 story YMCA and 11 story YWCA [[demoed), the 17 story Wolverine Hotel [[demoed), the Elwood Bar [[relocated), and Detroit College of Law [[demoed) were all located within the stadia "perimeter" [[not footprint). Before the stadia plans these were either restored and in use, or mothballed securely [[not the Ilitch type of abandonment). Most of these were owned by Chuck Forbes, who received $14 million for his properties, as well as the multi-million paid relocation of the Gem/Century and Elwood Bar.

Not sure where you got the $1 amount from... since the stadia are still owned by the Wayne County Authority [[no property taxes paid on them by either Ilitch or Ford).

I will agree that there were a lot of parking lots in that area.

Oh good grief! You ‘forgot’ the Motown HQ and Salvation Army/Eddystone [[“apts coming soon” banner) and you might as well throw in the abandoned Hudson’s warehouse too...

[Gistok]

Oh good grief! You ‘forgot’ the Motown HQ and Salvation Army/Eddystone [[“apts coming soon” banner) and you might as well throw in the abandoned Hudson’s warehouse too...

Nice try at a red herring...

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/...50/Red-Herring

The only $1 item is what the Tiger organization pays the Wayne County Authority to lease Comerica Park for 35 years.

[Towne Cluber]

Nice try at a red herring...

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/...50/Red-Herring

The only $1 item is what the Tiger organization pays the Wayne County Authority to lease Comerica Park for 35 years.

You posted a link, so it must be true!

This new attempt to claim that the LCA, Comerica Park, and Ford Field areas were valuable and thriving before the stadia are something beyond make believe.

I don’t even know what some people are trying to pull with this one. It’s the latest in the Bizzaro World that we now live in...

[Honky Tonk]

LOL, the stadia land was abandoned for decades and sold for $1.

I just have 2 questions. How much tax revenue are these coliseums generating? And, when can the tax payers expect to get their $350 mil back? Or was that considered a donation?

[SammyS]

You posted a link, so it must be true!

This new attempt to claim that the LCA, Comerica Park, and Ford Field areas were valuable and thriving before the stadia are something beyond make believe.

I don’t even know what some people are trying to pull with this one. It’s the latest in the Bizzaro World that we now live in...

With the numbers LCA is pulling, it better be profitable,

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/sports...ed-arenas-year

[dtowncitylover]

This new attempt to claim that the LCA, Comerica Park, and Ford Field areas were valuable and thriving before the stadia are something beyond make believe.

Technically speaking, the land where where the stadiums are were valuable and thriving before the stadiums arrived, just not right before.

Had we had a city that actually cared for all of its residents, image, and landscape I imagine Detroit would be very different today.

[Towne Cluber]

Technically speaking, the land where where the stadiums are were valuable and thriving before the stadiums arrived, just not right before.

Technically speaking, you are correct—if one’s definition of “just not right before” is several decades to almost half a century.

[Bham1982]

Technically speaking, you are correct—if one’s definition of “just not right before” is several decades to almost half a century.

That's not true. The land where Comerica/Ford/LC now sit was vibrant into the 1980's. Declining and getting patchy [[and unsafe by LC), but still vibrant.

And if these monstrosities had never been built, the declining prewars on the land would likely have been renovated.

[Towne Cluber]

That's not true. The land where Comerica/Ford/LC now sit was vibrant into the 1980's. Declining and getting patchy [[and unsafe by LC), but still vibrant.

And if these monstrosities had never been built, the declining prewars on the land would likely have been renovated.

No, that's not true and you certainly can't cite the "likely redevelopment" of today [[that is due in large part to the stadia in the first place)! Also, "vibrant" certainly isn't anywhere close to an accurate nor logical term to use along with "declining and getting patchy".

[Bham1982]

No, that's not true and you certainly can't cite the "likely redevelopment" of today [[that is due in large part to the stadia in the first place)! Also, "vibrant" certainly isn't anywhere close to an accurate nor logical term to use along with "declining and getting patchy".

None of this is remotely true or makes any sense.

The fact is the area had lots of nice prewars, those prewars would now be renovated or candidates for renovation, and whether or not the area was improving or declining has nothing to do with whether it was vibrant.

Vienna has been in relative decline for 200 years. That doesn't mean it isn't vibrant/urban at street level. Dallas has been booming for 200 years. That doesn't mean it isn't dead/suburban at street level.

[Towne Cluber]

None of this is remotely true or makes any sense.

The fact is the area had lots of nice prewars, those prewars would now be renovated or candidates for renovation, and whether or not the area was improving or declining has nothing to do with whether it was vibrant.

Vienna has been in relative decline for 200 years. That doesn't mean it isn't vibrant/urban at street level. Dallas has been booming for 200 years. That doesn't mean it isn't dead/suburban at street level.

Bham, once again you’re simply wrong and not making any kind of sense whatsoever. All that’s missing from your latest claim is some kind of Trump reference along with a wannabe elitist snide remark.

[Towne Cluber]

I just have 2 questions. How much tax revenue are these coliseums generating? And, when can the tax payers expect to get their $350 mil back? Or was that considered a donation?

1. Multi-millions in tax revenue are generated by the stadia. The workers [[including millionaire athletes and entertainers) are paying city income tax. Fans are paying sales tax. Visiting fans are paying hotel taxes.

2. I'm sure that the CBD taxpayers that funded them through their supplemental tax are satisfied with their ROI.

[dtowncitylover]

The Wolverine Hotel, probably the largest building in that area, had only closed in 1985. Comerica Park had broken ground in 1997. That's only 12 years not "several decades or half-century".

What really did that area in was the building of 75/375. Post c.1965 the area turned, but it wasn't completely desolate until the mid-80s. All that land was the northern end of Black Bottom and northeastern edge of downtown. What a complete loss to the city's grid and density. Even if it was a slum, it had a great foundation to what could've been a Manhattan-style neighborhood. But we gave it up for concrete.

We lost great architecture and street layouts for 2 stadiums and parking lots. Great.

[Towne Cluber]

The Wolverine Hotel, probably the largest building in that area, had only closed in 1985. Comerica Park had broken ground in 1997. That's only 12 years not "several decades or half-century".

What really did that area in was the building of 75/375. Post c.1965 the area turned, but it wasn't completely desolate until the mid-80s. All that land was the northern end of Black Bottom and northeastern edge of downtown. What a complete loss to the city's grid and density. Even if it was a slum, it had a great foundation to what could've been a Manhattan-style neighborhood. But we gave it up for concrete.

We lost great architecture and street layouts for 2 stadiums and parking lots. Great.

A far more accurate and honest discussion would cite all of the buildings, not the last one to close. It would also point out that that building had been in decline since the 1940s. Furthermore, it would add that the last attempt to salvage it was turning it into subsidized senior housing in the late 1960s.

[dtowncitylover]

A far more accurate and honest discussion would cite all of the buildings, not the last one to close. It would also point out that that building had been in decline since the 1940s. Furthermore, it would add that the last attempt to salvage it was turning it into subsidized senior housing in the late 1960s.

The Book Building and Tower had also been in decline since 1940, so...?

All of those buildings were in use throughout the 1970s. And whether or not it was senior housing means little. It, and the neighborhood around it, were still being used 24/7, unlike the stadiums.

[Towne Cluber]

The Book Building and Tower had also been in decline since 1940, so...?

All of those buildings were in use throughout the 1970s. And whether or not it was senior housing means little. It, and the neighborhood around it, were still being used 24/7, unlike the stadiums.

So an area that was skid row for half a century with one building partially used by the Salvation Army and another area across the street with one building still occupied in the 80s as a subsidized senior housing [[and another building that closed in the 90s after its tenant’s 99 year lease expired) should not have been redeveloped? Got it. Only in Detroit!

[dtowncitylover]

So an area that was skid row for half a century with one building partially used by the Salvation Army and another area across the street with one building still occupied in the 80s as a subsidized senior housing [[and another building that closed in the 90s after its tenant’s 99 year lease expired) should not have been redeveloped? Got it. Only in Detroit!

I'm not sure throwing up two stadiums and destroying urban fabric is redevelopment. Book Building, Stott Building, Broderick Tower, David Whitney, Grinnell Building, Sanders Building, Vinton Building, Farwell Building, Book Cadillac Hotel are examples of redevelopment. Building stadiums is development for sure, but whether it's good or bad is a matter of debate.

I've also never heard of that part of downtown as skid row. Hastings St. wasn't even known as skid row. It was thought of as a slum but for the people that lived there it was home and an extremely important part of black Detroit.

[Towne Cluber]

I'm not sure throwing up two stadiums and destroying urban fabric is redevelopment. Book Building, Stott Building, Broderick Tower, David Whitney, Grinnell Building, Sanders Building, Vinton Building, Farwell Building, Book Cadillac Hotel are examples of redevelopment. Building stadiums is development for sure, but whether it's good or bad is a matter of debate.

I've also never heard of that part of downtown as skid row. Hastings St. wasn't even known as skid row. It was thought of as a slum but for the people that lived there it was home and an extremely important part of black Detroit.

Let’s not conflate the areas nor the argument.

[iheartthed]

No, that's not true and you certainly can't cite the "likely redevelopment" of today [[that is due in large part to the stadia in the first place)!

Downtown Detroit's revival is not being driven by the stadiums, and I doubt stadiums were ever more than a minor factor in it. The real catalyst for what is happening in downtown Detroit is the successful urban revitalization efforts of other big northern cities. I think Bham is spot on that the stadiums removed urban infrastructure that would have likely been rehabbed if the buildings weren't destroyed for the stadiums.

[Towne Cluber]

Downtown Detroit's revival is not being driven by the stadiums, and I doubt stadiums were ever more than a minor factor in it. The real catalyst for what is happening in downtown Detroit is the successful urban revitalization efforts of other big northern cities. I think Bham is spot on that the stadiums removed urban infrastructure that would have likely been rehabbed if the buildings weren't destroyed for the stadiums.

I get that there's an aversion to sports and stadia on this forum and in certain segments of the population but you can't dismiss their key role in Detroit. To suggest that $300m to almost $1b stadia developments in Detroit are not the most valuable buildings in Downtown Detroit is to completely ignore reality. This isn't other cities and it's certainly not the coasts. Furthermore, to think that the LCA, Comerica Park, and Ford Field areas would have been redeveloped eventually is wishful thinking at best and dangerous at worst.

[iheartthed]

I get that there's an aversion to sports and stadia on this forum and in certain segments of the population but you can't dismiss their key role in Detroit. To suggest that $300m to almost $1b stadia developments in Detroit are not the most valuable buildings in Downtown Detroit is to completely ignore reality. This isn't other cities and it's certainly not the coasts. Furthermore, to think that the LCA, Comerica Park, and Ford Field areas would have been redeveloped eventually is wishful thinking at best and dangerous at worst.

As someone has already pointed out, the stadiums are worthless without the teams in them. The Renaissance Center, One Detroit Center, the Book Cadillac, etc., are all likely to survive every one of these new stadiums that have been built in the last 20 years.

[Towne Cluber]

As someone has already pointed out, the stadiums are worthless without the teams in them. The Renaissance Center, One Detroit Center, the Book Cadillac, etc., are all likely to survive every one of these new stadiums that have been built in the last 20 years.

And as has already been pointed out...1) that simply isn’t true, and 2) this isn’t Chicago or the coasts. Detroit real estate is cheap and the buildings are worth far more than the land. Also, the Book Cadillac financials are completely upside down, so that’s a terrible example. Likewise, the Ren Cen only had one interested buyer and sold for 20% of what it cost to build it, so that’s another poor example.

[Jason]

If you asked every single millenial living downtown to recount their first experiences with the city and when they decided they liked it, the overwhelming majority would talk about going to games as kids, and possibly concerts and museums or Eastern Market as well. Our sports teams give hundreds of thousands of people a reason to come to the city and a chance to leave long lasting positive impressions.

In 40 years when millenials are all geezers you're not going to hear stories about mom taking them downtown to Hudsons and the elevators being cool/scary, or boblo boat. You're going to hear stories about going out as a family to see sports games downtown.


And as far as the values go, the map I linked to earlier has the improved value of Comerica Park being 161 million, Compuware being 258 million, ODC being 221 million, the Ren Cen being 1,071 million [[500/600 towers being an additional 128 million), and the Chrysler plant being 38 million.

The Ren Cen is so far ahead it's undebatable. Behind that there are the major downtown office buildings, which are close enough together that it'd be hard to tell. But the Compuware Building, especially with it's upcoming expansion, would seem to be #2.