Detroit continues to die

[professorscott]

A few observations.

First, Detroit is in the best shape it's been, by far, since I first encountered it in 1979. Are there problems? Sure, show me a city without problems. But Mayor Duggan and the city are working as hard as I've ever seen, partnering with outside entities [[which Detroit used to fight tooth and nail; imagine getting QLine done when Coleman Young was mayor, and I was a great admirer of Coleman Young, but still) and making improvements.

Manufacturing is a tired old thing to discuss. Go tour the Dearborn truck plant where Ford makes the F-150. Robots make the trucks. You can have all the manufacturing you want; that doesn't employ people the way that it used to, and never will. One of the thousands of things that Trump gets wrong is the idea that some immigrant monster is taking jobs away; the robots take away the jobs and will continue to take away every job that they can.

I agree with some posters that the purpose of this entire website is to engage in constructive dialogue and not simply "cheerlead", but at the same time it seems unproductive to do the opposite, to simply repeat the tired old story of Detroit's Best Days are Behind It. Nobody knows yet what will, in the long run, turn out to have been Detroit's best days, and I, for one, am still optimistic. Optimistic from a distance, because of the vagaries of chance and economic forces, but optimistic nevertheless. Detroit has, as the Latin slogan says, risen from the ashes, and it has done so more than once.

[Bham1982]

A few observations.
First, Detroit is in the best shape it's been, by far, since I first encountered it in 1979.

I get that "best shape" is a subjective observation, but this statement strikes me as immune to reality.

In 1970, Detroit had a population of 1,511,000. In 1980, Detroit had a population of 1,203,000. So let's be conservative and say Detroit's 1979 population estimates [[based on 1978 count) would be around 1,250,000.

Detroit's current population estimate is 673,000. I don't know how anyone can make a straight-faced argument that a city is better off after losing nearly half its population, including almost its entire middle class.

In 1979, the vast majority of the city was still intact. The commercial corridors were in deep decline, but still existed. You could still shop Grand River/Greenfield or downtown along Woodward. NW Detroit was pretty solid middle-upper class. Hudson's was open downtown. The RenCen had luxury shops. There were plans for a subway, downtown shopping mall, and thousands of downtown market rate apartments.

Nowadays, most of the revitalization consists of casinos, sports stadia, some renovated buildings housing lofts or hotels, a relocated internet mortgage company, and institutional expansion [[hospitals, Wayne). There are bright spots but the city overall is in far worse shape.

[casscorridor]

I get that "best shape" is a subjective observation, but this statement strikes me as immune to reality.

In 1970, Detroit had a population of 1,511,000. In 1980, Detroit had a population of 1,203,000. So let's be conservative and say Detroit's 1979 population estimates [[based on 1978 count) would be around 1,250,000.

Detroit's current population estimate is 673,000. I don't know how anyone can make a straight-faced argument that a city is better off after losing nearly half its population, including almost its entire middle class.

In 1979, the vast majority of the city was still intact. The commercial corridors were in deep decline, but still existed. You could still shop Grand River/Greenfield or downtown along Woodward. NW Detroit was pretty solid middle-upper class. Hudson's was open downtown. The RenCen had luxury shops. There were plans for a subway, downtown shopping mall, and thousands of downtown market rate apartments.

Nowadays, most of the revitalization consists of casinos, sports stadia, some renovated buildings housing lofts or hotels, a relocated internet mortgage company, and institutional expansion [[hospitals, Wayne). There are bright spots but the city overall is in far worse shape.

Thank you. Detroit had a real chance of revival during the 1960s-80s, now not so much. Maybe if the racial climate were not so divisive, the city and its suburbs could have come together to lift the whole region up. I can only imagine how much stronger the current revival would be today.

[mwilbert]

I get that "best shape" is a subjective observation, but this statement strikes me as immune to reality.

In 1970, Detroit had a population of 1,511,000. In 1980, Detroit had a population of 1,203,000. So let's be conservative and say Detroit's 1979 population estimates [[based on 1978 count) would be around 1,250,000.

Detroit's current population estimate is 673,000. I don't know how anyone can make a straight-faced argument that a city is better off after losing nearly half its population, including almost its entire middle class.

In 1979, the vast majority of the city was still intact. The commercial corridors were in deep decline, but still existed. You could still shop Grand River/Greenfield or downtown along Woodward. NW Detroit was pretty solid middle-upper class. Hudson's was open downtown. The RenCen had luxury shops. There were plans for a subway, downtown shopping mall, and thousands of downtown market rate apartments.

Nowadays, most of the revitalization consists of casinos, sports stadia, some renovated buildings housing lofts or hotels, a relocated internet mortgage company, and institutional expansion [[hospitals, Wayne). There are bright spots but the city overall is in far worse shape.

As you say it is subjective. Imagine someone starts losing blood at a fairly high rate. At the beginning of the process, they are still fairly OK, but they are getting worse fast. After a while, the bleeding is stopped. In some sense, they are worse off than earlier when they hadn't been bleeding as long, and in another sense they aren't.

In my view, it is a much more attractive proposition for a person or a business to move into or stay in Detroit now than it was in 1979. Whether that means the city as a whole is in better shape depends on how you want to look at it.

[Honky Tonk]

A few observations.

I guess that's more scientific than anecdotal opinions.

imagine getting QLine done when Coleman Young was mayor,

Granted it's not the blight rail, but the people remover was built under Coleman Young. The Ren Cen too.

Manufacturing is a tired old thing to discuss. Go tour the Dearborn truck plant where Ford makes the F-150. Robots make the trucks. You can have all the manufacturing you want; that doesn't employ people the way that it used to, and never will. One of the thousands of things that Trump gets wrong is the idea that some immigrant monster is taking jobs away; the robots take away the jobs and will continue to take away every job that they can.

Took the F-150 tour, been inside the Mustang Plant for a few days. There are still plenty of people that are needed, and work, in both places. It isn't as robotically automated as people make it out to be. The difference today is, you don't use a pencil to put check marks next to a line, you have to be able to use computers or modern test equipment to obtain those jobs. Has the amount of people required changed? Yes. Every grade school class should go for a field trip so today's kids get a better understanding of what skills they'll need to get a job in today's market.