L Brooks Reduced to Whining

[Cincinnati_Kid]

'Regional transport' means nothing to me. I drive myself where I need to go.

You sound just like LBP, sure you're not a wee bit selfish?

[Jimaz]

Everyone's entitled to their opinion but it's wise to remember that at some age none of us will be able to drive. Plan ahead.

I just looked up the Macomb County Public Transportation Millage results [[100% precincts reporting):

Yes: 77,502
No: 77,479

23 vote difference. Damn that's close.

[softailrider]

Regarding LBP, he never pretended to be Mr. Nice Guy. He tried to do the best job he could do for residents of Oakland County. While his drinking did become problematic from time to time, there was never any scandal surrounding him that I can remember.

As far as downtown a Pontiac goes. I remember Saginaw Street being a veritable ghost town 40 years ago and it looks to me, pretty much the same as it did back then. Many of the neighborhoods seem to have fallen into a deeper state of disrepair. Some of the neighborhoods seem quite nice. Pontiac used to be a boom or bust town dependent on the auto industry, much like Flint, now it’s just mostly bust.

All in all, I think LBP has done a very good job, it wasn’t his responsibility to attempt to save the world.

[canuck]

Regarding LBP, he never pretended to be Mr. Nice Guy. He tried to do the best job he could do for residents of Oakland County. While his drinking did become problematic from time to time, there was never any scandal surrounding him that I can remember.

As far as downtown a Pontiac goes. I remember Saginaw Street being a veritable ghost town 40 years ago and it looks to me, pretty much the same as it did back then. Many of the neighborhoods seem to have fallen into a deeper state of disrepair. Some of the neighborhoods seem quite nice. Pontiac used to be a boom or bust town dependent on the auto industry, much like Flint, now it’s just mostly bust.

All in all, I think LBP has done a very good job, it wasn’t his responsibility to attempt to save the world.

Saving the World is a big ticket item, not on his list for sure, he wasn't a hippy-type like Jesus.

But anybody who votes for a politician expecting more than someone trying to make his jurisdiction a little less fucked is doomed to repeat the cycle of voting for a knucklehead. He stemmed a lot of what people who got him in wanted him to stem.

[Danny]

That guy is Coleman Young in reverse. He will be done soon.

[Danny]

Everyone's entitled to their opinion but it's wise to remember that at some age none of us will be able to drive. Plan ahead.

I just looked up the Macomb County Public Transportation Millage results [[100% precincts reporting):

Yes: 77,502
No: 77,479

23 vote difference. Damn that's close.

That's because the old mobsters pass 20 Mile Rd. do not the want to pay taxes for SMART even though those buses do not run pass 23 Mile Rd.

[Danny]

Everyone's entitled to their opinion but it's wise to remember that at some age none of us will be able to drive. Plan ahead.

I just looked up the Macomb County Public Transportation Millage results [[100% precincts reporting):

Yes: 77,502
No: 77,479

23 vote difference. Damn that's close.

That's because the old mobsters pass 20 Mile Rd. do not the want to pay taxes for SMART even though those buses do not run pass 23 Mile Rd. Hardworking folks in south Macomb County cities who rely on SMART bus transportation save Macomb County from becoming a regional ghost town!

Just like South Bronx in 1982.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AVzkTd9R44

[masterblaster]

Brooks is a ......, but why does his reputation hinge on whether or not an decayed, basically irrelevant local company town has a nice downtown?

Also, what is "elegant" about Pontiac? It's a 20th century boomtown, thrown up in a few years, built on the cheap for migrant labor, and now badly outdated.

With Birmingham, Rochester, Royal Oak, Ferndale and Milford, Oakland probably has the best downtowns in the region. Macomb has nothing, Wayne has Plymouth and Northville [[though Northville is basically shared by Oakland), and I guess the two GP downtowns, and that's about it, if we're talking non-depressed cores.

Pontiac is the seat of the county and has a large traditional downtown. It suffered the same rate as Detroit - closure of factories, white flight, and increase in crime.

Concerning suburban Wayne County downtowns, you forgot Wyandotte and downtown West Dearborn

[gnome]

My Dad’s family is from Pontiac, I lived there for a minute myself and have a conflicted relationship with Pontiac.

I witnessed with my own eyes corruption from the police and the building departments. The entire political apparatus was a grifter paradise of scams and schemes. No amount of scrubbing could get that place clean enough so decent people would want to live there. I am not talking just about dirt and decay but the city leaders and workers were a criminal collective.

The building inspectors were infamous with needing an envelope of cash to even look at a job. It was disheartening to say the least.

For years earnest folk would try to run a business and be hounded out by criminals both in and out of City Hall.

[gnome]

The point I wanted to make, but failed, was that Pontiac is indeed an important town but refuses to get out of its own way.

That isn’t Brook’s fault but it is his legacy.

The ironic part of that is that Brooks, and his predecessor, Dan Murphy, metaphorically built a wall around Pontiac and pretended it didn’t exist. Kind of washed their hands saying, “Those folks must like that that way.”

[canuck]

The point I wanted to make, but failed, was that Pontiac is indeed an important town but refuses to get out of its own way.

That isn’t Brook’s fault but it is his legacy.

The ironic part of that is that Brooks, and his predecessor, Dan Murphy, metaphorically built a wall around Pontiac and pretended it didn’t exist. Kind of washed their hands saying, “Those folks must like that that way.”

And that Phoenix Center plopped down there at the end of an ailing commercial street must have been the result of a boxful of brown envelopes too. Phoenix = Renaissance; all code words for kicking the can down the road...

[Bham1982]

The point I wanted to make, but failed, was that Pontiac is indeed an important town but refuses to get out of its own way.

Pontiac was an important town. It's basically irrelevant now.

Even the county govt. left the town, because they're more or less in Waterford.

Really the only reason that town exists is to provide affordable market rate housing, and even that function is highly questionable given that adjacent jurisdictions except due south are all quite cheap.

And the housing stock, excepting a small area off Telegraph, is very basic/spartan, so the long-term odds for gentrification are pretty slim. It's simple housing thrown up for mid-century laborers, like you see in Warrendale or Taylor.

[p69rrh51]

Pontiac was an important town. It's basically irrelevant now.

Even the county govt. left the town, because they're more or less in Waterford.

Really the only reason that town exists is to provide affordable market rate housing, and even that function is highly questionable given that adjacent jurisdictions except due south are all quite cheap.

And the housing stock, excepting a small area off Telegraph, is very basic/spartan, so the long-term odds for gentrification are pretty slim. It's simple housing thrown up for mid-century laborers, like you see in Warrendale or Taylor.

As usual you lack of knowledge of the metro area is completely underwhelming! One of the best historic districts in metro Detroit is in Pontiac along with a couple very unusual historic districts. You are D'yes's number one TROLL and its time for you to crawl back under the rock you came from and stop annoying us with your dumbass comments!

[Bham1982]

As usual you lack of knowledge of the metro area is completely underwhelming! One of the best historic districts in metro Detroit is in Pontiac along with a couple very unusual historic districts. You are D'yes's number one TROLL and its time for you to crawl back under the rock you came from and stop annoying us with your dumbass comments!

Uh-oh, someone needs their diaper changed.

If there's something specific I wrote that you disagree with, please provide details. Otherwise, we can safely assume you're mindlessly trolling.

[dtowncitylover]

Otherwise, we can safely assume you're mindlessly trolling.

If you knew who p69rrh51 actually is, you'd know they aren't mindlessly trolling.

I always figured the building of the county office park on Telegraph was also a death blow to Pontiac. That's a lot of visitors and workers missing from a downtown core. The law outta state that executive offices must be within the county seat's city limits. As of now, LBP sits on his throne in Waterford Twp. I'm not sure when the complex was built, but holy cow that's petty that most of the important offices are in Pontiac but LBP's offices are in Waterford.

[Bham1982]

If you knew who p69rrh51 actually is, you'd know they aren't mindlessly trolling.

If someone proclaims "you're wrong and trolling" without offering any specifics, I think it's fair to assume they're mindlessly trolling.

I wrote that Pontiac, excepting a few historic western streets near Telegraph, generally had crap housing. Anyone familiar with Pontiac knows it was auto-boom era boomtown, with cheap housing thrown up for factory workers from the South, not unlike parts of Inkster, Westland, Ypsi, Warrendale and the like. That same housing, at least in Pontiac, is now quite ramshackle and undesirable.

This is typical Pontiac:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6310...7i13312!8i6656

Coupled with horrible schools, high taxes, high crime, and surrounded by relatively cheap areas [[excepting Bloomfield) with low taxes and crime, why would anyone bet on gentrification?

The one positive thing over the last 20 years is the Mexican community that now dominates the North Side, but even that is ending thanks to nativism. Mexicans leave Pontiac as soon as they achieve a degree of prosperity but now few are taking their place.

[3WC]

I agree with Bham1982 on this one. He's clearly correct as everyone who has a lot of knowledge about the issue and an unbiased view knows.

I sure don't know who p69rrh51 "actually is," dyowncitylover, but he clearly doesn't know what he's talking about, which of course is not a prerequisite for posting on this forum.

By the way, will someone explain to me the meanings of the terms "troll" and "trolling." Serious replies only, please.

[EGrant]

A troll is someone who just posts to make people mad, without actually offering anything to the conversation. So basically what p69rrh51 is doing.

[Lowell]

p69rrh51 is leading authority on Metro Detroit architecture and historic structures -- see his DYES Hall of Fame thread ✪ Detroit's Wealth Of Architectural Talent!

He knows of what he speaks if stated indelicately.

As for Pontiac homes take a several blocks drive through its Indian Village--the streets in this district with Indian names. Here's a Google street view starter: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6339...7i13312!8i6656

And finally, everybody, kindly keep the rhetoric civil. Please.

[swingline]

If you knew who p69rrh51 actually is, you'd know they aren't mindlessly trolling.

I always figured the building of the county office park on Telegraph was also a death blow to Pontiac. That's a lot of visitors and workers missing from a downtown core. The law outta state that executive offices must be within the county seat's city limits. As of now, LBP sits on his throne in Waterford Twp. I'm not sure when the complex was built, but holy cow that's petty that most of the important offices are in Pontiac but LBP's offices are in Waterford.

Pr69rrh51 certainly isn't a troll but his over the top criticism of Bham's participation here seems unfounded and unnecessary.

You are spot on as to your criticism of the location of the Oakland County government offices. The fateful decision to move everything to the fringe Service Center site was made in the late 1950s. If the county leaders intentionally wanted to suck the life out of the core of their county seat, they could not have made a better move.

[dtowncitylover]

If someone proclaims "you're wrong and trolling" without offering any specifics, I think it's fair to assume they're mindlessly trolling.

I wrote that Pontiac, excepting a few historic western streets near Telegraph, generally had crap housing. Anyone familiar with Pontiac knows it was auto-boom era boomtown, with cheap housing thrown up for factory workers from the South, not unlike parts of Inkster, Westland, Ypsi, Warrendale and the like. That same housing, at least in Pontiac, is now quite ramshackle and undesirable.

This is typical Pontiac:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6310...7i13312!8i6656

Coupled with horrible schools, high taxes, high crime, and surrounded by relatively cheap areas [[excepting Bloomfield) with low taxes and crime, why would anyone bet on gentrification?

The one positive thing over the last 20 years is the Mexican community that now dominates the North Side, but even that is ending thanks to nativism. Mexicans leave Pontiac as soon as they achieve a degree of prosperity but now few are taking their place.

So you found one neighborhood and declared it typical of Pontiac?

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6517...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6305...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6269...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6383...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6782...7i13312!8i6656

^pretty nice, and unremarkable subdivision I've been in.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6811...7i13312!8i6656

Are these not "typical" of Pontiac, too? God, what a subjective term.

Also, none of us said Pontiac is some sort of utopian paradise. But I think it deserves to be in a much better condition. It's the county seat, and we act like it's a red-headed step child.

Full disclosure: I was born there and always had a soft spot for it. It deserves to be a seat of power. Instead, it's dragged through the mud because...? Some snob from Bham doesn't think it's deserving of anything?

[313WX]

Pr69rrh51 certainly isn't a troll but his over the top criticism of Bham's participation here seems unfounded and unnecessary.

While Pr69rrh51's wording may have been harsh, I can tell you for a fact that they're not alone in their sentiment.

Just look at how the individual in question is now trying to derail the topic of this thread for example, which was about LBP's whining over Oakland County's decline that he's largely responsible for.

[Bham1982]

Just look at how the individual in question is noe trying to derail the topic of this thread for example, which was about LBP's whining over Oakland County's decline that he's largely responsible for.

Except the exact opposite occurred. Oakland boomed under Paterson, while the other counties withered. The gap between Oakland and the rest of the metro has never been greater.

[313WX]

Except the exact opposite occurred. Oakland boomed under Paterson...

You love throwing out those alternative facts, don't you?

To re-quote another post for emphasis, this is what really happened:

L. Brooks Patterson led Oakland County into a pretty dramatic decline. It was once a county with one of the highest incomes and property values in the country. That hasn't been true for a while, and that's why it is obvious that the emperor has no clothes. Oakland County cannot keep pace with other affluent suburban counties in the U.S...

[Bham1982]

You love throwing out those alternative facts, don't you?

To re-quote another post for emphasis, this is what really happened:

You're projecting, again.

The previous poster's non-logic was as follows- Oakland County has not kept pace with Silicon Valley and Manhattan [[very true), therefore Oakland County has declined relative to the rest of the region [[obviously false).

Sorry, but Oakland is the economic engine of the state, and has never been more dominant within the region. Random Oakland cities like Troy have the same or bigger tax base than any other city in the region [[Detroit included).

The strong majority of the region's wealth and corporate might is concentrated in Oakland, which wasn't the case 20-30 years ago, when places like the Pointes had somewhat comparable wealth.