Brush Park Development

[masterblaster]

Wondered how he could make money with those rents but then I see there are 25 units in the building. Doesn't look that big.

Backing up hybridy, it appears this may have been a single-family house when it was first built, but like many of the big houses in Brush Park, an apartment building addition was constructed attached to the back of the house, basically occupying the backyard space. You can see the apartment addition on Google Maps.

[masterblaster]

This neighborhood might end up being more densely populated than it was in its heyday!

[royce]

I'm happy for the development in Brush Park. However, there are some design choices I am not pleased with. First, that beige brick on the majority of the City Modern condos is a poor color, especially when you see them built next to the historic houses. You can see in one of the Freep pictures how poor they look compared to the historic house. Even though the condo is not finished, when it is finished there'll be very little improvement. City Modern should have at least used brick on those condos on Alfred Street to match the historic houses on that block.

The second complaint I have is with the frontage of those beige condos. It would have been better to give everyone a huge concrete porch [[essentially a front deck/patio) that extended to the sidewalk instead of putting planters and grass in. I love grass but for a house not a condo. The grass and plants just gives the developer an excuse to charge you higher HOA fees. Also, do you see children's play equipment on the front lawns of most homes in Metro Detroit? I know the owner's don't have a backyard, but like parents in New York City, you take the kid's to a nearby park.

A third complaint I have deals with the proximity of the condos to the historic homes, especially the Ransom Gillis House. The condos are so close that there is literally no side yard or backyard or any room for entertaining. Given the Ransom Gillis home's stature, it should have been given some kind of yard that could display an historic fountain or garden or room for tourists to mingle when leaving the house after a tour. The two buildings next to it [[one in back and one to the east in the front) are huge and encroach on one's ability to enjoy the beauty of the home. Why go through all the trouble of renovating the Ransom Gillis House and then smother it with two nondescript buildings? Bad decision.

The fourth complaint I have deals with the buildings using up so much of the previous backyards. City Modern is trying to fit too many structures on the land. If the condos in the back weren't as big as the ones in the front, then maybe you could widen the alleys and make them narrow one-way streets with parking. I would not want to live in those "alley" condos because when I look out my front window I see an alley. If the alleys had room for parking and a sidewalk on one side, that would make it feel like a real street when I look out my front window.

My fifth and final complaint deals with the metal on some of the buildings facades. A building for commercial use can have metal for siding, not a residential development, especially in an historic neighborhood. The materials should be brick or wood. Man, to see what these metal/corrugated metal building are going to look like in twenty years, I don't want to know.

Well, that's it. Fire away.

[CR75]

Almost 10% return. Not bad. Maybe he’s banking on the appreciation. That’s not a bad strategy either.

With the low rents he filled the development quickly, freed up capital and moved on to the next project. I wish more developers in the Midtown/Downtown area understood this approach, instead of putting up ridiculous asking prices, making the market stale and freezing up capital for years.

[CR75]

Well, that's it. Fire away.

I think your vision for Brush Park is to restore it as much as possible to the heyday of the early 1900s. Low-density old brick mansions, expansive lawns, trees, etc., like Boston-Edison or Indian Village. That would be a beautiful thing for sure, but there aren't that many mansions left in Brush Park, unfortunately. The current plan, I believe, is to increase density and basically make it a continuation of downtown. That's why the focus on contemporary architecture. I hear all your architectural criticism about city modern, but questions like "how is metal going to look like in 20 years" are beside the point. These 'contemporary' homes are not made to last, in 20-30 years they will likely be demolished and replaced by new contemporary homes, especially if property values keep climbing.

[Satiricalivory]

I don't know where you get that idea, they are definitely made to last. Most of them are worth over a million dollars. They're not going anywhere.

I think they look great, the urban form is excellent and people just need to get used to change. The complaints come off to me as very nit-picky.

[Gistok]

I agree with Royce on many points, but mainly the poor color choices. It would not have cost that much to use warm color materials. The difference between the surviving historic homes and the new infill is very jarring.

When you see what $1 million will buy you in Indian Village versus Brush Park... the difference is staggering... you get 5 times+ the house in Indian Village.

[JonWylie]

I agree with Royce on many points, but mainly the poor color choices. It would not have cost that much to use warm color materials. The difference between the surviving historic homes and the new infill is very jarring.

When you see what $1 million will buy you in Indian Village versus Brush Park... the difference is staggering... you get 5 times+ the house in Indian Village.

The location of Brush Park is much better than Indian Village for most things. Plus you get a modern home with updates utilities and I'm sure it's much more energy efficient.

[Gistok]

The location of Brush Park is much better than Indian Village for most things. Plus you get a modern home with updates utilities and I'm sure it's much more energy efficient.

Making the comparison I did is not fair to the Brush Park argument. But the finishes [[Pewabic Fireplaces, antique hardwood floors and fixtures, 4-6 bedrooms) are just not available in a new construction in Brush Park.

I think that the best place to live in Brush Park is directly facing one of the historic homes...

[Satiricalivory]

Do you guys like Orleans Landing? Because I think that's the closest you're going to get to traditional new construction urban development. I mean it's not bad over there, definitely better than most. But it's still not authentic pre-war architecture and it would look actually jarring, almost insulting to the 19th century buildings that survived.

I don't think Detroiters are used to seeing new modern construction next to really really old buildings but this is indeed the norm in dynamic cities. Not everything has to look the same to compliment each other.

[Seven&wyo]

Do you guys like Orleans Landing? Because I think that's the closest you're going to get to traditional new construction urban development. I mean it's not bad over there, definitely better than most. But it's still not authentic pre-war architecture and it would look actually jarring, almost insulting to the 19th century buildings that survived.

I don't think Detroiters are used to seeing new modern construction next to really really old buildings but this is indeed the norm in dynamic cities. Not everything has to look the same to compliment each other.

I agree more or less with everyone here. I would have liked to see older buildings but the craftsmanship and demand isn't there. I'm glad with the design choices for the most part and it would have been nice if they used reclaim brick on the carriage homes, but that's not picky at the smallest. With that being said I fucking despise Orleans landing. The huge lawns, cheap vinyl backing, cheap interiors. Generic or not, God almighty I hate Orleans landing

[Gistok]

The developer of infill housing in the East Ferry Historic District did a nice job of adding housing that complements the historic feel of the neighborhood. Sadly not enough housing remained in Brush Park to do this, but it worked OK on East Ferry. Made for a nice streetscape, without actually replicating the old architecture.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/71...!4d-83.0666471

[SammyS]

The townhomes look amazing inside and out. Great layout, quality fittings and spectacular 360 degree views from the 4th story penthouse. Excellent addition to a perfect location

[DetroitSoldier]

New development in Brush Park was destined to be criticized from the moment it was announced. The old stock of mansions there were SO old school and SO elaborate, that nothing would have truly done them justice. Something understated would have been criticized for being underwhelming. Then going too bold would have been criticized as disrespectful.

For the amount of money being invested in these properties, and for the amount people are paying just to get their foot in the door, I am glad thoughtful but bold was the route they went. Detroit's architectural history is very proud. While new and old sometimes stand in contrast, you will not be able to argue thst quality and craftsmanship was ever overlooked in this very proud Detroit neighborhood.

[Pontiac6000]

If the city had foresight during its 1976 'renovation' the street islands, brown brick pavers, cement planters, etc could have blended into this, but no harm no foul. But with those condos being 'owned', won't people decorate as they please?

[casscorridor]

Faux-traditional almost always looks terrible and ages poorly. City Modern made a wise decision with the contemporary architecture. Brush Park will be a modern urban neighborhood with a unique mix of architectural styles rather than a cheap knock-off of a bygone era.

[Gistok]

Faux-traditional almost always looks terrible and ages poorly. City Modern made a wise decision with the contemporary architecture. Brush Park will be a modern urban neighborhood with a unique mix of architectural styles rather than a cheap knock-off of a bygone era.

Depends on what materials were used, and the design... One Detroit Center/Ally Building used quality materials and has a nice Gothic top that has aged well. Even the infill in the East Ferry Historic District has held up nicely.

If you look at England's Prince of Wales sponsored "historic" town of Poundbury, all the new buildings have retained their charm and elegance. Pastische? Of course... but it looks warm and inviting...
https://www.google.com/search?q=Poun...h=674&dpr=1.25

If you use cheap materials and design... you end up with it looking cheap. That goes for modern as well as old architectural styles. But it doesn't have to be... if well thought out...

[DetroitSoldier]

Depends on what materials were used, and the design... One Detroit Center/Ally Building used quality materials and has a nice Gothic top that has aged well. Even the infill in the East Ferry Historic District has held up nicely.

If you look at England's Prince of Wales sponsored "historic" town of Poundbury, all the new buildings have retained their charm and elegance. Pastische? Of course... but it looks warm and inviting...
https://www.google.com/search?q=Poun...h=674&dpr=1.25

If you use cheap materials and design... you end up with it looking cheap. That goes for modern as well as old architectural styles. But it doesn't have to be... if well thought out...

I agree with you. However, I believe that due to already narrow profit margins in Detroit, the ability to build high quality historically representative structures is probably more limited.. I'm by no means saying "we should be thankfully for anything." I don't believe that at all. But I think recognizing the context in which we have added quality urban density without sacrificing quality is important. I think when Brush Park is finished we will be pleased with the results of the contemporary rebirth of a classic neighborhood.

[Satiricalivory]

I mean Henry Glover house is basically building a new historical home right now. That thing was nothing but a half standing brick shell when they got it.

[Gistok]

I remember driving thru that neighborhood 35 years ago... back when many more Victorian homes were still standing. Too bad restoration couldn't have happened then.

I've not driven down those streets in the last 10 years, so I have to give it another drive-thru.

Sadly, the finest Victorian homes in Detroit were built along Woodward Avenue... and now only 4 remain...

1) The Whitney Restaurant mansion.

2) The Hecker-Smiley mansion.

3) Beecher House [[right across the street from Hecker-Smiley)...
https://mi.reel-scout.com/Slideshow....92&cid=14&pid=

4) And this unknown house, right next to the Maccabees Building [[WSU)...
https://www.google.com/maps/place/50...!4d-83.0650246

I don't recall the name of that last one, but it could certainly use a restoration. I guess we should be thankful it is still there.

[CR75]

I don't know where you get that idea, they are definitely made to last. Most of them are worth over a million dollars. They're not going anywhere.

In real estate it's actually the other way around. The higher the property value, the more likely the house will be torn down to make room for a new structure. This is especially true for 'contemporary' architecture.

[SammyS]

In real estate it's actually the other way around. The higher the property value, the more likely the house will be torn down to make room for a new structure. This is especially true for 'contemporary' architecture.

That only applies to areas where the land value exceeds the building cost which is relevant just about anywhere in the world but Detroit. We’re getting there quickly though, especially Brush Park.

City Modern homes sold anywhere between $300 and $360/sqf. Knowing the build quality, the building itself likely cost around $200/sqft so in this case, the building is where the value is. As mentioned earlier, they are reselling for over $450/sqf which tells me either building costs have significantly increased or the location has. In any case, I think we’re at a turning point which is a huge positive for Brush Park and Detroit on whole

[bust]

^^^
Cheap construction is penny wise and pound foolish, if often not for the developer, as long as first buyers buy.
I hope you're right, City Modern is the exception, and the construction is the quality it deserves. I've liked the project from its start.
But we didn't buy there, and I'm happy living in the structural solidity of our older home.
We've improved it and it will last much longer than most of what's being built these days.
Wishing City Modern success, and continue to anticipate it too.

[p69rrh51]

I remember driving thru that neighborhood 35 years ago... back when many more Victorian homes were still standing. Too bad restoration couldn't have happened then.

I've not driven down those streets in the last 10 years, so I have to give it another drive-thru.

Sadly, the finest Victorian homes in Detroit were built along Woodward Avenue... and now only 4 remain...

1) The Whitney Restaurant mansion.

2) The Hecker-Smiley mansion.

3) Beecher House [[right across the street from Hecker-Smiley)...
https://mi.reel-scout.com/Slideshow....92&cid=14&pid=

4) And this unknown house, right next to the Maccabees Building [[WSU)...
https://www.google.com/maps/place/50...!4d-83.0650246

I don't recall the name of that last one, but it could certainly use a restoration. I guess we should be thankful it is still there.

Gistok, the Smiley's had nothing to with the creation of the house. They just owned the house from 1947-1996, and were very poor caretakers of the house. The Heckers owned the house from 1891-1947. I chatted with one of the partners at Charfoos years ago, they spent over 1 million dollars rehabbing the house. Its just the Hecker house not the Hecker-Smiley house.

Designed by Rogers & MacFarlane for Samuel S. Smith. 5035 Woodward Avenue built in 1889 Wayne State University, Detroit, MI. Includes an image of the house from an issue of The Inland Architect and News Record, circa 1890.

[Gistok]

^^ The directors and many members of Preservation Wayne/Preservation Detroit have been calling it the Hecker-Smiley House even after Charfoos and Christiansen took it over. I'm surprised that as a member, that you have not heard them refer to it as that?