Four restuarants in Royal Oak will be closing

[JBMcB]

What are you talking about "technically closing"? They're closing, done, finished. This was exactly the coalition's claim.

So let me get this straight. According to you:

1. The coalition claimed that these restaurants are closing
2. By "closing" the coalition meant that the restaurants are not closing permanently, but changing concepts, which is what is actually happening to two of the four they referred to

So why is the coalition complaining that restaurants are changing concepts? How, exactly, does the fact that Diablo is converting into a steak and seafood restaurant bolster the coalitions' complaints about downtown development?

[Bham1982]

So let me get this straight. According to you:

1. The coalition claimed that these restaurants are closing
2. By "closing" the coalition meant that the restaurants are not closing permanently, but changing concepts, which is what is actually happening to two of the four they referred to

So why is the coalition complaining that restaurants are changing concepts? How, exactly, does the fact that Diablo is converting into a steak and seafood restaurant bolster the coalitions' complaints about downtown development?

None of this is true.

The restaurants are 100% closing. They are not "changing concepts". It's not like they're adding a taco bar or something. They are closing, replaced by new restaurants, under new ownership. The coalition told the truth, the mayor did not.

It's amazing what people will argue. Multiple people are seriously arguing that restaurants closing are not actually closing if another business takes their place. Bizarre.

KMart isn't closing stores, folks. Nor is ToysRUs. Hudsons never closed, either. They're all just "changing concepts", from one business to another.

[dtowncitylover]

None of this is true.

The restaurants are 100% closing. They are not "changing concepts". It's not like they're adding a taco bar or something. They are closing, replaced by new restaurants, under new ownership. The coalition told the truth, the mayor did not.

It's amazing what people will argue. Multiple people are seriously arguing that restaurants closing are not actually closing if another business takes their place. Bizarre.

KMart isn't closing stores, folks. Nor is ToysRUs. Hudsons never closed, either. They're all just "changing concepts", from one business to another.

This still proves you don't understand nuance.

This isn't about what actually closed. In that case, yes Andiamo, Cantina, and Red Fox all closed. But "Take Back" wasn't correct because Cantina and Red Fox are ending and being replaced. "Take Back" wanted us to believe they were also being shuttered and the property left vacant. That was incorrect.

Bham, go back and sit down in your Bham world. You know nothing about Royal Oak politics.

[restoretheroar]

None of this is true.

The restaurants are 100% closing. They are not "changing concepts". It's not like they're adding a taco bar or something. They are closing, replaced by new restaurants, under new ownership. The coalition told the truth, the mayor did not.

It's amazing what people will argue. Multiple people are seriously arguing that restaurants closing are not actually closing if another business takes their place. Bizarre.

KMart isn't closing stores, folks. Nor is ToysRUs. Hudsons never closed, either. They're all just "changing concepts", from one business to another.

Also false. A restauranteur [[and successful one) that owns a building recognizes taking a 40% equity partner to change concepts to adapt to a changing environment, demographic and economic model [[unlike Andiamo) while investing in their property and claiming that parking isn't an issue and better preparing their business for the future where Royal Oak will have more parking and downtown daytime workers than ever before is not the same as Toys r Us, KMart and Hudson's who did not adapt fast enough. The brand new 800 spot garage sits mostly empty while the vocal minority of people that live to complain, probably never really frequent the establishments, and spend very little if they do, continue to go lowest common denominator.
Anyone that actually frequents and supports downtown and is marginally able bodied will tell you there's never been an issue finding parking. Maybe you have to park a few blocks further or make a few more laps but there has always been plenty available. Metering until midnight on meters that don't have park mobile is a legit complaint, but available parking is not. The city is changing for the better and those that want to throw mud can find a new place to live. Progress and free markets will dictate in the end who is right in this debate.
Owners that invest in a future they believe in, or those that can't admit their product was subpar. I am the problem, and I am the solution.

[Bham1982]

This isn't about what actually closed. In that case, yes Andiamo, Cantina, and Red Fox all closed.

Thank you.

What is it about, then? We aren't actually talking about restaurants closing?

But "Take Back" wasn't correct because Cantina and Red Fox are ending and being replaced. "Take Back" wanted us to believe they were also being shuttered and the property left vacant. That was incorrect.

When did "Take Back" ever make such an absurd pronouncement? Please post where they made this wacky claim.

Even somewhere ultra-depressed like Highland Park or Flint, if a business closes, there are good odds that a replacement business will take the space.

Bham, go back and sit down in your Bham world. You know nothing about Royal Oak politics.

I know enough about RO politics to say with confidence that the RO mayor is a liar and dbag, and the coalition was proven 100% correct.

[Bham1982]

Also false. A restauranteur [[and successful one) that owns a building recognizes taking a 40% equity partner to change concepts to adapt to a changing environment, demographic and economic model [[unlike Andiamo) while investing in their property and claiming that parking isn't an issue and better preparing their business for the future where Royal Oak will have more parking and downtown daytime workers than ever before is not the same as Toys r Us, KMart and Hudson's who did not adapt fast enough. T

This is amazing delusion. A closing isn't a closing.

Are you a Trump cultist? You would be a perfect fit. Quite a capacity for complete self-delusion.

[dtowncitylover]

Thank you.

What is it about, then? We aren't actually talking about restaurants closing?

When did "Take Back" ever make such an absurd pronouncement? Please post where they made this wacky claim.

Even somewhere ultra-depressed like Highland Park or Flint, if a business closes, there are good odds that a replacement business will take the space.

I know enough about RO politics to say with confidence that the RO mayor is a liar and dbag, and the coalition was proven 100% correct.

They made the announcement that your salivating over to prove your deluded point. The funny thing is that there's incorrect info. The build is owned by the restaurant owners, therefore there's no need to "not renew their lease". I guess they did that to themselves when they decided to create the new concepts, but that's nothing official.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300677503.html

And this article proves you wrong because the new restaurants are owned by the same people as Red Fox and Cantina:

https://www.metrotimes.com/table-and...l-oak-closures

"Both will be under the same ownership, with restauranteur Adam Merkel, who owns and runs the original Diamond's in Howell, joining as a minority owner."

So no. "Take Back" were proven 100% false because the restaurants aren't closing, the owners have decided to do something different. And none of it has to do with parking. So please go back to post #76 and answer. Oh wait, you can't.

[dtowncitylover]

Perhaps "closing in name only" is a better turn of phrase.

[Towne Cluber]

Diablo Cantina/Red Fox changing formats and bringing in a new co-owner after losing an adjacent parking lot is either an incredible coincidence or a sign of trouble based on parking.

[JBMcB]

Diablo Cantina/Red Fox changing formats and bringing in a new co-owner after losing an adjacent parking lot is either an incredible coincidence or a sign of trouble based on parking.

That's a possibility. However Leo's, Blaze Pizza, Second Street Sub Shop, Bean & Leaf and Yogurt City are all in the same block with the same parking situation, and they are still open.

[eliboyer]

That's a possibility. However Leo's, Blaze Pizza, Second Street Sub Shop, Bean & Leaf and Yogurt City are all in the same block with the same parking situation, and they are still open.

You just named 5 businesses designed for foot traffic, so the parking situation isn't going to affect them as much. Andiamo's is designed as more of a destination in its style and price point.

[GMan]

If parking is an issue in R.O. why would this business owner leave one supposedly bad situation for another?

https://www.livingstondaily.com/stor...ant/826565002/

[Towne Cluber]

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...oak/938012002/

The mayor has been far from forthright on the matter. Half of the parking spots in the new garage are reserved...a study commissioned by the city itself showed the downtown still has a 300 parking spot shortage...another previously undisclosed restaurant/bar owner said his business is down 35-40%

[casscorridor]

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...oak/938012002/

The mayor has been far from forthright on the matter. Half of the parking spots in the new garage are reserved...a study commissioned by the city itself showed the downtown still has a 300 parking spot shortage...another previously undisclosed restaurant/bar owner said his business is down 35-40%

Imagine if there was a light-rail station connecting Royal Oak to Detroit. Yeah, I bet some of these people would riot, but ultimately, it's good for the city.

[Bham1982]

Imagine if there was a light-rail station connecting Royal Oak to Detroit. Yeah, I bet some of these people would riot, but ultimately, it's good for the city.

How would a light rail line from Detroit do a thing to improve the Royal Oak parking situation? You really think the Andiamo patronage is coming from 6 Mile and Woodward?

[Towne Cluber]

Imagine if there was a light-rail station connecting Royal Oak to Detroit. Yeah, I bet some of these people would riot, but ultimately, it's good for the city.

Doubtful, given that Royal Oak already has a train/bus station.

[masterblaster]

How would a light rail line from Detroit do a thing to improve the Royal Oak parking situation? You really think the Andiamo patronage is coming from 6 Mile and Woodward?

Well, there are a lot of middle class people that live near 7 Mile/Woodward, 8 Mile/Woodward, 9 Mile/Woodward, and 10 Mile/Woodward.

Longtime residents, including businesswoman and former city commissioner Laura Harrison, are dismayed at the transformation of their once-sleepy downtown.

“I hate to say it but I prefer shopping in Clawson or Berkley – places which have maintained their small-town charm,” she said. “Things going up here are too tall – maybe they would be fine in Detroit, but I think they’re out of character for Royal Oak."

There are several 15+ story condo developments in downtown Royal Oak that have been there for about a decade. These few mid-rise office buildings are alot shorter. There are even a few 1920's era buildings in Royal Oak that are taller than these new buildings.

[Bham1982]

Well, there are a lot of middle class people that live near 7 Mile/Woodward, 8 Mile/Woodward, 9 Mile/Woodward, and 10 Mile/Woodward.

And you think they would take public transit to go Andiamo in RO? Andiamo demo is mostly white, old conservative folks, from places like Macomb Twp. The Applebees crowd, not the Ferndale crowd.

Those "middle class people" south of 8 Mile don't live on Woodward. They're closer to Livernois. And they aren't walking through Palmer Park at 11 PM to exit transit, unless Chuck Norris and Charles Bronson are tagging along.

There are several 15+ story condo developments in downtown Royal Oak that have been there for about a decade.

If by "several" you mean 0, yes. There is one building 15+ floors and it is rental [[and not very expensive or desirable). No highrise condos in RO.

[dtowncitylover]

If by "several" you mean 0, yes. There is one building 15+ floors and it is rental [[and not very expensive or desirable). No highrise condos in RO.

Again wrong but what else is new? Condos are for sale at the Fifth. $750,000 isn't expensive for Royal Oak? Ok then...

[Bham1982]

Again wrong but what else is new? Condos are for sale at the Fifth. $750,000 isn't expensive for Royal Oak? Ok then...

The Fifth was built as a rental building, and gets low rents.

If it was converted to condos, I apologize, I was mistaken, but that's one building, and yeah, it's cheap. I don't believe your claims of 750k sales closings in that crapbox.

[masterblaster]

And you think they would take public transit to go Andiamo in RO? Andiamo demo is mostly white, old conservative folks, from places like Macomb Twp. The Applebees crowd, not the Ferndale crowd.

Those "middle class people" south of 8 Mile don't live on Woodward. They're closer to Livernois. And they aren't walking through Palmer Park at 11 PM to exit transit, unless Chuck Norris and Charles Bronson are tagging along.


If by "several" you mean 0, yes. There is one building 15+ floors and it is rental [[and not very expensive or desirable). No highrise condos in RO.

The well-to-do neighborhoods of Palmer Woods and Green Acres both border Woodward Avenue between 7 Mile and 8 Mile Roads. Plus, I was including the Ferndale residents across 8 Mile Road. None of these people would be crossing Palmer Park which is south of 7 Mile.

You are correct, I was wrong, there is only one 15+ story plus building in Royal Oak. There is a 7-story residential building at Main Street & 4th, and a 9-10 story residential building on Main north of 11 Mile. So my main point STILL stands, which is: these new office buildings are shorter than several residential buildings that have been built fairly recently.

[Towne Cluber]

Andiamo demo is mostly white, old conservative folks, from places like Macomb Twp. The Applebees crowd, not the Ferndale crowd.

Once again, this is an exaggeration. Applebees dinner: $10-$18.50. Andiamo dinner: $17-$45.

[Towne Cluber]

If by "several" you mean 0, yes. There is one building 15+ floors and it is rental [[and not very expensive or desirable). No highrise condos in RO.

The 15 story Barton Towers is a senior citizen building. The 18 story Fifth Condos are selling/sold for $300k to $825k. Currently there are 8 for sale and 1 rental. Recent transactions were 20 sales and 6 rentals.

[Towne Cluber]

The Fifth was built as a rental building, and gets low rents.

If it was converted to condos, I apologize, I was mistaken, but that's one building, and yeah, it's cheap. I don't believe your claims of 750k sales closings in that crapbox.

Monthly rent is $2700 to $3900.

[dtowncitylover]

The Fifth was built as a rental building, and gets low rents.

If it was converted to condos, I apologize, I was mistaken, but that's one building, and yeah, it's cheap. I don't believe your claims of 750k sales closings in that crapbox.

It's always been condos.

https://www.condo.com/building/The-F...4#tab_pnl_sold

Maybe in Birmingham $2500 per month is low rent...?