US-Canada Relations - Let's pull together, not apart

[CassTechGrad]

It's cult worship. There is nothing the Orange Idiot could say that wouldn't be eagerly embraced/parroted by his base, so it's incumbent on the rest of us to fix things.

And I have seen the previous president referred to as "the beige man-boy", isn't that childish!

[Richard]

Trump explicitly threatened auto tariffs. Whether you believe tariffs will help the US economy or they will hurt the US economy, the chaos and uncertainty of auto tariffs will harm the auto industry until things reach a new equilibrium. Just bringing them up in a tweet will effect the risk calculation for investors.

He did it to get their attention and followed through to show he was serious about reviewing the whole trade process.

So he put the ball in their court.

Canadas response could have been,okay let's take a look at where we are at and see if we can tweak it,but they did not,the response was if you want a trade war then let's go.

He campaigned on reviewing NAFTA,2 years ago,if you know two years in advance what is coming down the road, is maybe the wise thing to do is kinda prepare a solution before it comes down to something that may not be in your favor?

Nothing is set in stone,President Bush started doing the same thing but rolled it back because he had another war on his hands,so that is the choice,blame President Trump for doing something that he made pretty clear that he was going to do or go to the table with a compromise.

Or threaten a trade war knowing full well how he reacts to threats,just ask rocket man.

[Bham1982]

Or threaten a trade war knowing full well how he reacts to threats,just ask rocket man.

You mean the murderous dictator who just fooled Trump into a meeting while giving up nothing, thus normalizing N. Korea and elevating China, which would have never happened if we had a sane President?

It really is funny watching Trump cultists desperately twist themselves into knots explaining the latest idiocy from their Dear Leader. Maybe future Secretary of State Dennis Rodman can offer more insight.

[Richard]

The only one that seems to be twisted in knots is you.

[canuck]

You mean the murderous dictator who just fooled Trump into a meeting while giving up nothing, thus normalizing N. Korea and elevating China, which would have never happened if we had a sane President?

It really is funny watching Trump cultists desperately twist themselves into knots explaining the latest idiocy from their Dear Leader. Maybe future Secretary of State Dennis Rodman can offer more insight.

I picture Richard watching Chump vs Rocket Man on the Toon Network while eating his Breitbart Flakes.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

And I have seen the previous president referred to as "the beige man-boy", isn't that childish!

The previous president has been called a lot worse.

[Honky Tonk]

You mean the murderous dictator who just fooled Trump into a meeting while giving up nothing,

Oh Wow, is the meeting over? We lost? I didn't realize... Thanx for the report, Bham.

[Bham1982]

Oh Wow, is the meeting over? We lost? I didn't realize... Thanx for the report, Bham.

Happy to oblige. Turn off the Fox News, RT, and Breitbart, and welcome back to reality.

[Richard]

I picture Richard watching Chump vs Rocket Man on the Toon Network while eating his Breitbart Flakes.

So the reports of long term LSD usage and hallucinations are accurate? Most just see purple dragons flying about.

If he had pushed the button the alt left would be dancing in the streets saying,see we were right he took us into world war 3,he brings the wako to the table and your still dancing in the streets saying he is sucking up a wacko.

You guys need to have somebody unplug the blender,because you are getting dizzy to the point of no comprehension.

He brought the guy to the table and physically met with him,which no president has done sense the 1950s.

Its a first step and not set up as a solution.

He got China to relay to Korea that they will still do trade with them but if they go to war with the US then they are on their own,which is even more important.

But you guys already knew that,your just looking for a platform to shed a few tears,which is okay.

The summit leaders knew in advance that he was leaving early to fly to Indonesia in order to deal with a world matter,but none of them accompanied him,was it because despite all of the rhetoric they had confidence in President Trump to handle it?

A fallout from a nuclear war would not effect the rest of the world?

Bham I really think you moonlight as the presidents twitter script writer,because you both come up with the same leval of communication,who knows,maybe you are really his brother?

[Honky Tonk]

Your thread is working out great, Lowell....

[Richard]

I think the one thing that we can all agree on that,no matter what side of the border we are on,it is highly unlikely that the currant president is going to change his style of communication in the next 7 years.

[canuck]

Richard, I'll just give you an example of how your lack of nuance about steel and other stuff is totally off the mark. While a good part of the steel structure on the new World Trade Center, and its antenna were built by a company in suburban Montreal, our new Champlain bridge's steel structure was fabricated in Spain. If the new span btwn Windsor and Detroit gets built, will you bark over the fact that some of them there components come from outside Michigan while sitting in your Florida room?

[Wesley Mouch]

How is world order being maintained?

Russia invaded and took Chimera.They did get a spanking though.
Burma is playing Hitler redux by purging millions of Muslims and christians either by genocide or forced relocation outside of its borders.

Millions of refugees across the globe are dieing everyday at sea while fleeing other countries.

Slaves are sold on open market in Africa.

Iran just wants to nuke everybody.

This stuff did not start yesterday,nobody has intervened.

So let's hold a summit to talk about it but continue to do nothing in order to maintain world order,Kinda a waste of time.

I read much of the opposition to Trump as knee-jerk. The NK summit is being widely panned. But it is, after all, exactly what the left has been asking for. Dialogue, not war.

So at the G7 Trump suggests dropping all tariffs. The response? On no, that'll destroy the world. Before, no new tariffs please. Now, please keep the tariffs.

Over to Canada for a second...

Trump slames Trudeau. Probably didn't say anything that the loyal opposition didn't say in Question Period in the House of Commons. Have you ever listened to them insult each other? Trudeau is called names. Harper was called names. Trump called him names. Oh my. Not civilized when you do it. Tossing insults is just for us.

I abhor Trump's insults to Canada. Yet I get no small amount of joy watching him treat Trudeau like Ted Cruz. No because I like the insult. But because Trump is obliterating the status quo in politics. And that has real value.

Trudeau and Canada both should have just ignored the bully. The best response would have been 'we kinda think the same shit about you, but right now lets get rid of our daily tariffs on our side, and you get rid of your dairy subsidies on your side. Deal? Instead, they playing into The Donald's hands. He lives on chaos. Feed him order and sense -- not fake outrage.

[Bham1982]

I read much of the opposition to Trump as knee-jerk. The NK summit is being widely panned. But it is, after all, exactly what the left has been asking for. Dialogue, not war.

So at the G7 Trump suggests dropping all tariffs. The response? On no, that'll destroy the world. Before, no new tariffs please. Now, please keep the tariffs.

If there is a defining feature of Trump cultists, I think it's lack of nuance. Trump appeals to them because they want simple answers to complex questions. The above, almost comically simplistic comments, are Exhibit A.

If you [[seriously) cared about such things as bilateral trade agreements and nuclear arms negotiations, you wouldn't be mindlessly shilling for the Dotard and Dennis Rodman conducting such matters. You would realize that someone with contempt for data, history and truth, and disdain for expert opinion, would have no chance of advocating for America's best interests in either realm.

[Pat001]

Watching the faces of CNN and MSNBC talking heads this morning. It’s just like election night all over again.

[Bham1982]

Watching the faces of CNN and MSNBC talking heads this morning. It’s just like election night all over again.

Yup. Educated people cannot believe 40% of Americans are this gullible, and are constantly amazed that the latest Trump idiocy incites even more cult worship.

The Cult is a lost cause. They will genuflect before their Dear Leader till the bitter end. It's incumbent on everyone else to work to remove the cancer from the White House.

[Canadian Visitor]

Well at least one Trump acolyte is slow-walking his comments back:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/12/the-...an-leader.html

[Richard]

I read much of the opposition to Trump as knee-jerk. The NK summit is being widely panned. But it is, after all, exactly what the left has been asking for. Dialogue, not war.

So at the G7 Trump suggests dropping all tariffs. The response? On no, that'll destroy the world. Before, no new tariffs please. Now, please keep the tariffs.

Over to Canada for a second...

Trump slames Trudeau. Probably didn't say anything that the loyal opposition didn't say in Question Period in the House of Commons. Have you ever listened to them insult each other? Trudeau is called names. Harper was called names. Trump called him names. Oh my. Not civilized when you do it. Tossing insults is just for us.

I abhor Trump's insults to Canada. Yet I get no small amount of joy watching him treat Trudeau like Ted Cruz. No because I like the insult. But because Trump is obliterating the status quo in politics. And that has real value.

Trudeau and Canada both should have just ignored the bully. The best response would have been 'we kinda think the same shit about you, but right now lets get rid of our daily tariffs on our side, and you get rid of your dairy subsidies on your side. Deal? Instead, they playing into The Donald's hands. He lives on chaos. Feed him order and sense -- not fake outrage.

lol,I do not know who is more entertaining with the House of Commons you guys or the brits.

I think it is more pandering on both sides and still think the only reason steel was picked is because the general public can easily relate to it but also pandering to the US steel workers union votes.

Yes I agree they could both easily sat down and came up with a workable solution without the dramatic show but that is political games and as usual it is the guy in the street that is paying the price.

Like I posted before,as soon as he mentioned tariffs,my steel and aluminum costs jumped 30% and that was 3 months ago,so lots of games being played across the board.

I guess now that they have some kind of dialogue,such as it is,they can channel it in a more positive direction as one would hope.

[Scottathew]

Michigan voted for the ignorant clown in the WH. This is apparently what many people wanted. Chaos, strife and economic decline.

As a critical swing state, we bear considerable responsibility for this pending trade disaster, and have no one to blame but ourselves.

This is unfortunately true. But I do agree with Lowell's original post, screw what the US administration says, we are friends and neighbors!

[Richard]

Richard, I'll just give you an example of how your lack of nuance about steel and other stuff is totally off the mark. While a good part of the steel structure on the new World Trade Center, and its antenna were built by a company in suburban Montreal, our new Champlain bridge's steel structure was fabricated in Spain. If the new span btwn Windsor and Detroit gets built, will you bark over the fact that some of them there components come from outside Michigan while sitting in your Florida room?

I guess maybe that is the part you will never understand about this country.

It does not matter where I sit,we are a nation together, in the bigger picture
the stronger Michigan is the stronger we are as a country.

I do not care if they lean left,right or center and do not always agree with everybody but at the end of the day we are all Americans depending on each other and in the same boat.

So yes I will bark if necessary because I will always put my fellow American first before everybody else.Just as I would expect Canadians to do.

As you say,in my Florida room,I meet a lot of your fellow Canadians as snowbirds and oddly enough you seem to be the exception to the rule.

But I guess there is no harm in being one of a kind,we all have our idiocrasies.

[Lowell]

I am a fair trader, not a free trader, so I support readjustment of agreements when a trade imbalance has become extremely skewed because of uneven playing fields. In that vein I support a hard line vs China, particularly on the intellectual property issue.

I favor import quotas vs. tariffs for China. "Sorry, you have sold your limit of products in our market for this year. However you may sell more after you buy more of ours."

I did not support NAFTA because it was a gold-embossed invitation for American companies to move to Mexico encouraged by a combination of low wages, weak labor laws, lax pollution controls and endemic corruption.

Our "loyal" American companies said, "Great. We'll we'll exploit Mexican laborers, make our products for a fraction, then import and sell them here for prices we could never get in Mexico, and pocket the money."

Did anyone see American companies flying off to Canada after NAFTA?? No, because Canada has relative equality of costs and enforced regulations which makes for an even playing field. My position was let's do NAFTA with Canada first and see how it works, then talk about Mexico.

So I have no tolerance for the level of discourse and "stabbed in the back" hyperbole the US administration has directed against Canada. Why? Because it serves no purpose other than gratifying the ego of the speaker. It gets us no closer to a solution and threatens rounds of tit for tat that hurts everybody. It is a childish, insulting and embarrassing way to treat our closest friend and ally.

[Richard]

But yet oddly enough I can visit pretty much every country in the world,but our closest friend and ally.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

I do not care if they lean left,right or center and do not always agree with everybody but at the end of the day we are all Americans depending on each other and in the same boat.

This is where you're wrong Richard. We're not all in the same boat. Some are in Cabin Cruisers, most are in Kayaks.

[3WC]

To set the record straight, in 2016 the trade deficit with Canada in GOODS was @12.1 billion. However, in 2016 the U.S. trade surplus in SERVICES was $24.6 billion.

In 2017 the U.S. had a goods and services SURPLUS of $8.4 billion.

Those were basically the numbers quoted by far Prime Minister Stephen Harper on Maria Bartiromo's Sunday show on Fox News.

Also, they're confirmed on ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/canada

[Canadian Visitor]

But yet oddly enough I can visit pretty much every country in the world,but our closest friend and ally.

You often go on about this in different threads as if it were pertinent to the topic. It usually isn't.

I hasten to add you don't strike me as a globe trotter and I would be interested to see the list of developed countries you've entered w/o prior permission.

***

Be that as it may.......

If you really want to come visit, has it occurred to you to try and make that happen, rather than accept a denial some years ago?

This was what, a misdemeanor conviction, I assume, but one that is more serious in Canada.

You have a couple of options, asking for a pardon for the offense in the US.

As well as a couple of different waivers through Canada.

I can't recall if it was a DUI issue, but there is a discussion below that pertains to comparable offenses and outlines the process to obtain permission to enter Canada notwithstanding a conviction.

https://allcleared.com/blog/can-you-...da-with-a-dui/

Were your offense in Michigan, you might consider getting a pardon.

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/c...e_330607_7.pdf

The process in Florida sounds more bothersome:

https://www.fcor.state.fl.us/clemencyOverview.shtml

You may still require permission to enter Canada even with a pardon, though not a bad idea to clear your record if you can.