US-Canada Relations - Let's pull together, not apart

[Bham1982]

Going into the meeting with Korea and sitting across from him at the table,knowing full well that he has no problem pissing the rest of the world off,what do you think the odds are that tiny little Korea is going to think he is going to be a pushover?

Odds are probably around 1000%.

Trump is a poor man's idea of a rich man and an uneducated man's idea of a smart man. He's been a pushover from Day 1 of this nightmare and anyone outside the Cult would immediately sense this.

[Richard]

Odds are probably around 1000%.

Trump is a poor man's idea of a rich man and an uneducated man's idea of a smart man. He's been a pushover from Day 1 of this nightmare and anyone outside the Cult would immediately sense this.

But yet there he is and here you are.

I can see it is going to be a tough 7 years for you.

[Uncledave54]

[Bham1982]

But yet there he is and here you are.

The cult worship is strong here. I'm doing fine, thanks. Would not trade my life for that of the pig in the WH.

What is your point, exactly? Since I'm not President, I have no right to comment on Trump's daily idiocy, avalanche of criminal investigations, sliding towards autocracy and attempts at destroying the Western order?

I can see it is going to be a tough 7 years for you.

Is that Trump's forthcoming prison term or your timeline for an impending Fourth Reich?

[oladub]

Canada's trade balance with the U.S. is only 3% of total trade in Canada's favor. Trade imbalances between Japan, Germany and some other U.S. friends are much greater. Trading partner, not friend, China is being floated by our trade imbalance. I don't see the point in going after Canada when other countries are squeezing so much more out of the U.S.. For decades, we've had corporations set up trade agreements profitable to those corporation but eating away at the viability of the U.S.. There should be some adjustments to bad treaties but Canada is pretty far down the list of culprits. Just because our last two or more presidents have sold us out to corporate interests is no reason to express anger at other leaders who look after their own countries' interests. A more sanguine approach would be to support open trade but add stiff tariffs to any imports exceeding a mutual value balance of trade. My guess is that other countries would find something of value to purchase from the U.S.. That approach would hardly affect Canada.

While I don't condone Trump officials and their foreign counterparts calling each others names, the hateful name calling already posted on this thread probably exceeds anything coming from the Trump administration or its foreign counterparts. At least Trump and Merkel didn't refer to each others' waistlines or hair pigment.

[Ray1936]

While I don't condone Trump officials and their foreign counterparts calling each others names, the hateful name calling already posted on this thread probably exceeds anything coming from the Trump administration or its foreign counterparts. At least Trump and Merkel didn't refer to each others' waistlines or hair pigment.

That's the sanest posting on this thread so far. Thanks.

[Lowell]

Canada's trade balance with the U.S. is only 3% of total trade in Canada's favor. Trade imbalances between Japan, Germany and some other U.S. friends are much greater. Trading partner, not friend, China is being floated by our trade imbalance. I don't see the point in going after Canada when other countries are squeezing so much more out of the U.S.. For decades, we've had corporations set up trade agreements profitable to those corporation but eating away at the viability of the U.S.. There should be some adjustments to bad treaties but Canada is pretty far down the list of culprits. Just because our last two or more presidents have sold us out to corporate interests is no reason to express anger at other leaders who look after their own countries' interests. A more sanguine approach would be to support open trade but add stiff tariffs to any imports exceeding a mutual value balance of trade. My guess is that other countries would find something of value to purchase from the U.S.. That approach would hardly affect Canada.

While I don't condone Trump officials and their foreign counterparts calling each others names, the hateful name calling already posted on this thread probably exceeds anything coming from the Trump administration or its foreign counterparts. At least Trump and Merkel didn't refer to each others' waistlines or hair pigment.

I don't go for hateful name-calling under any circumstances. It is an intellectually cheap way out. It diverts from informed criticism and the search for meaningful solutions. It childishly shouts, "I have run out of ideas, so you suck."

To your point of Canada and a 3% trade deficit, let's not forget that Canada is not price-cutting by using prison labor, our stolen intellectual property, abusing their labor, taking advantage of weak or non-existent pollution controls, and killing or imprisoning those who speak out. Their workers get fair wages, have rights, get health care and are the backbone of a great democracy. We could have no better neighbor in the world.

[Richard]

Canada's trade balance with the U.S. is only 3% of total trade in Canada's favor. Trade imbalances between Japan, Germany and some other U.S. friends are much greater. Trading partner, not friend, China is being floated by our trade imbalance. I don't see the point in going after Canada when other countries are squeezing so much more out of the U.S.. For decades, we've had corporations set up trade agreements profitable to those corporation but eating away at the viability of the U.S.. There should be some adjustments to bad treaties but Canada is pretty far down the list of culprits. Just because our last two or more presidents have sold us out to corporate interests is no reason to express anger at other leaders who look after their own countries' interests. A more sanguine approach would be to support open trade but add stiff tariffs to any imports exceeding a mutual value balance of trade. My guess is that other countries would find something of value to purchase from the U.S.. That approach would hardly affect Canada.

While I don't condone Trump officials and their foreign counterparts calling each others names, the hateful name calling already posted on this thread probably exceeds anything coming from the Trump administration or its foreign counterparts. At least Trump and Merkel didn't refer to each others' waistlines or hair pigment.

He is not really picking on Canada,he is just going down the list,NAFTA is on the list,the rest will be next.

We have not had a positive trade deficit sense 1974.

In 2016 Canada had a negative trade balance of 94 billion net imports.

1995 it was 30.4 billion in positive exports.

There is nothing wrong with trade as long as it is fair for both sides.

England is going through the exact same thing with Europe threatening trade wars with brexit,so how does Germany justify trade war threats when they are doing the exact same thing to England that they are accuseing us of?

Bush started a trade review but then dropped it.

Canadas PM threatened a trade war and our president responded,no different then when the roles were reversed,the president calls him weak but we do not know the conversation that was taking place as to why he came to that conclusion.

[Richard]

I don't go for hateful name-calling under any circumstances. It is an intellectually cheap way out. It diverts from informed criticism and the search for meaningful solutions. It childishly shouts, "I have run out of ideas, so you suck."

To your point of Canada and a 3% trade deficit, let's not forget that Canada is not price-cutting by using prison labor, our stolen intellectual property, abusing their labor, taking advantage of weak or non-existent pollution controls, and killing or imprisoning those who speak out. Their workers get fair wages, have rights, get health care and are the backbone of a great democracy. We could have no better neighbor in the world.

It is more then just trade,

The continued existence of anti-dumping measures between Canada and the U.S. is “one of the failures of NAFTA,” said Riyaz Dattu, a veteran international trade lawyer at Osler, Hoskin & Harcourt LLP in Toronto. “It’s anomalous and bizarre,” he said. “It does not make sense economically, and from a perspective of free trade, to have dumping laws between Canada and the United States, or for that matter between Mexico and Canada.”

http://business.financialpost.com/ne...n-its-drywalls

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1GE32B

That steel company supports directly and indirectly 122,000 jobs to export 83% of that steel to the US,the steel mill in northern Michigan shut down,I wonder where those workers found jobs at?I guess it does not matter as long as Canada is happy,US steel workers can always work at Mc Donald's.

[canuck]

He is not really picking on Canada,he is just going down the list,NAFTA is on the list,the rest will be next.

We have not had a positive trade deficit sense 1974.

In 2016 Canada had a negative trade balance of 94 billion net imports.

1995 it was 30.4 billion in positive exports.

There is nothing wrong with trade as long as it is fair for both sides.

England is going through the exact same thing with Europe threatening trade wars with brexit,so how does Germany justify trade war threats when they are doing the exact same thing to England that they are accuseing us of?

Bush started a trade review but then dropped it.

Canadas PM threatened a trade war and our president responded,no different then when the roles were reversed,the president calls him weak but we do not know the conversation that was taking place as to why he came to that conclusion.

My little pink finger tells me you are a closet communist, Richard. You want everything to be leveled and equalized. No more competition, no more opportunism.

Shame. I didn't think you would stoop that low. Mind you, I kind of follow your logic. China is a communist dictatorship with Capitalist ambitions, and they keep your country's currency afloat. All your countrymen and women have to do is buy American on an individual basis. No more Louis Vuitton handbags and Toyotas made offshore.

But I will tell you that no politician will be able to stem the in and outflow of goods without first dictating to corporate interests, and the will of folks who demand products from global sourcing. No wonder Trump graduated from Reality TV to realpolitik with a view to lead in the fashion of his dictator idols.

[Hypestyles]

will the bridge project be derailed by the G-7 commotion?

[ABetterDetroit]

will the bridge project be derailed by the G-7 commotion?

I wondered the same thing this weekend...


Back to the points from the OP, no doubt that if a US-Canada trade war does in fact heat up Metro Detroit and the State of Michigan will be on the front line of the pain dished out. The big 2 are not nearly strong enough to go it alone especially if they have no choice in the matter.

Canada is a pillar in their most profitable vehicles as a consumer and producer.

[SammyS]

I’d take a “chauvinist arsehole” Trump putting America first over a cucked weakling desperate for everyone’s approval....and it looks like I’m not the only one.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2018...-surge-canada/

....but I must agree. A close strong working relationship is best for both

[Bham1982]

I’d take a “chauvinist arsehole” Trump putting America first over a cucked weakling desperate for everyone’s approval....and it looks like I’m not the only one.

I truly feel sorry for you, mindlessly parroting Kremlin propaganda, claiming someone under criminal investigation by his own party for conspiring against the U.S. is "putting America first" and linking to crazy online conspiracy sites. Trump certainty loves the uneducated.

Imagine what the history books will write about the Trump cult. The dude conspiring with Putin, attacking U.S. institutions, threatening the Constitution and trying to destroy the U.S.-led world order is actually lauded by alleged U.S. patriots. As your cult leader would say, SAD!

[douglasm]

As a sidebar to this conversation, it is being reported that Trump's chief economic adviser Larry Kudlow suffered a heart attack this evening.

[Bham1982]

While I don't condone Trump officials and their foreign counterparts calling each others names, the hateful name calling already posted on this thread probably exceeds anything coming from the Trump administration or its foreign counterparts.

I assume you just woke up from a three-year nap?

Putting aside the fact that DYes posters and the U.S. President aren't exactly subject to the same rules of public decorum, I don't think Trump has gone a week without saying something 10x as vile as any DYes forumers [[unless any of our forumers are fond of calling Nazis "fine people", Mexicans "rapists", mocking the handicapped, insulting parents of U.S. war dead, grabbing women in the pussy, calling foreign countries "shitholes", blacks "animals", Latinas "Miss Housekeeping" and generally being an epic d-bag of historic proportions).

[3WC]

Lowell, see what you have wrought?

Actually, the whole Trump issue is a tempest in a teapot.

First, we have an $8 billion trade SURPLUS with Canada when considering goods and services. It would be more except we buy so damn much oil from Canada.

You want to know who almost did more damage to Canadian/U.S. relations than anyone so far? President Obama. Remember the Keystone Pipeline?

Canada has the third largest oil reserves on earth so far. It is the 5th largest exporter of oil and the 5th largest oil producer. The U.S. is its largest customer for crude oil and we import more oil from Canada than any other country. Oil is the lifeblood of the Canadian economy.

Canada wanted to build a new pipeline from McMurray, Alberta to Vancouver which would be the least expensive export route. However, it was prevented from doing that by the First Nation [[natives) owners of land the only feasible route.

So, it was determined that the oil would be exported by a new pipeline through the United States down to Cushing, OK, [[a major oil distributing crossroads) and from there to the SW U.S. for sale and to Houston for export.

It first needed U.S. State Dept. approval, which was granted by Hilary Clinton. However, Tom Steyer, a CA billionaire and environmental whacko [[my opinion) and one of the largest contributors to the Democratic Party, and who initially supported Hilary in the '08 primary, screamed that the mining of the Canadian oil sands, and the use of petroleum generally, will ruin the planet. Hilary withdraw State Dept approval. Steyer, who had promised another $100 million during the next election cycle, told Obama that if he ever approved the Keystone Pipeline he'd never give another penny to the Democratic Party.

Also, Warren Buffett put huge pressure on Obama to prevent the pipeline. You see, Berkshire controlled the railroad that hauled most of the oil from the Bakken shale oil fields in MT. Berkshire also owned Murray Manufacturing [[believe that's the name), the company that manufactures most of the railroad oil tank cars. It was promised that the Bakken oil producers could tap into the Keystone Pipeline and save $4 per bbl in transportation costs, and cost Berkshire millions of dollars annually.

So, of course Obama did as he was told and denied Canada the necessary permits to cross the border and build the pipeline in the U.S.
It was a huge economic blow to Canada, and it hurt U.S. consumers.

One of the first things Trump did was approve the pipeline thereby creating approximately 20,000 American construction jobs and several hundred permanent ones.

So what if Trump makes imprudent statements? There is nothing he can do to inflict any serious damage to U.S./Canadian relations.

And, Canada does apparently impose very high and unreasonable tariffs on several U.S. products.

And it's probable that because we live in an entirely different world than we did when NAFTA was passed, it's now time to take another look. [[Remember Ross Perot and his view of NAFTA when he ran for president, and the sucking sound you'd hear as U.S. manufacturing job left the country as a result? Perot was 10 times smarter than any president we've had in years and I did my part by voting for him.)

[Richard]

My little pink finger tells me you are a closet communist, Richard. You want everything to be leveled and equalized. No more competition, no more opportunism.

Shame. I didn't think you would stoop that low. Mind you, I kind of follow your logic. China is a communist dictatorship with Capitalist ambitions, and they keep your country's currency afloat. All your countrymen and women have to do is buy American on an individual basis. No more Louis Vuitton handbags and Toyotas made offshore.

But I will tell you that no politician will be able to stem the in and outflow of goods without first dictating to corporate interests, and the will of folks who demand products from global sourcing. No wonder Trump graduated from Reality TV to realpolitik with a view to lead in the fashion of his dictator idols.

Well if your consultant is your little pink finger,maybe you should move it north a little bit.

I am an American,my civic duty and who I care about first and foremost is my fellow Americans,it does not make me a communist and if you have not figured it out yet,the 1950s commy scare manipulating does not work anymore.

I does not meen I dislike Canadians or wish them harm and Canada is not an anomaly when it comes to eliminating the competition in order to profit.

It is in your best interest to produce goods and undercut American businesses,but you already know about the whole benefiting from others at no cost to you.

You refer to communism but yet who controls your liquor? Why cannot you as a country produce steel at a competitive rate but you do not,you manipulated a market in order to dominate and it cost Americans jobs then get confused as to why there is backlash.

But you are right,there are a lot of Americans that will sell out their countrymen and women in order to save a dollar and in the end it comes back and bites the country in the rear.

We can do trade,it is simple,you scratch my back I scratch yours,you pick my pocket while scratching my back and sooner or later there will be repercussions.

[p69rrh51]

Lowell, see what you have wrought?

Actually, the whole Trump issue is a tempest in a teapot.

First, we have an $8 billion trade SURPLUS with Canada when considering goods and services. It would be more except we buy so damn much oil from Canada.

You want to know who almost did more damage to Canadian/U.S. relations than anyone so far? President Obama. Remember the Keystone Pipeline?

Canada has the third largest oil reserves on earth so far. It is the 5th largest exporter of oil and the 5th largest oil producer. The U.S. is its largest customer for crude oil and we import more oil from Canada than any other country. Oil is the lifeblood of the Canadian economy.

Canada wanted to build a new pipeline from McMurray, Alberta to Vancouver which would be the least expensive export route. However, it was prevented from doing that by the First Nation [[natives) owners of land the only feasible route.

So, it was determined that the oil would be exported by a new pipeline through the United States down to Cushing, OK, [[a major oil distributing crossroads) and from there to the SW U.S. for sale and to Houston for export.

It first needed U.S. State Dept. approval, which was granted by Hilary Clinton. However, Tom Steyer, a CA billionaire and environmental whacko [[my opinion) and one of the largest contributors to the Democratic Party, and who initially supported Hilary in the '08 primary, screamed that the mining of the Canadian oil sands, and the use of petroleum generally, will ruin the planet. Hilary withdraw State Dept approval. Steyer, who had promised another $100 million during the next election cycle, told Obama that if he ever approved the Keystone Pipeline he'd never give another penny to the Democratic Party.

Also, Warren Buffett put huge pressure on Obama to prevent the pipeline. You see, Berkshire controlled the railroad that hauled most of the oil from the Bakken shale oil fields in MT. Berkshire also owned Murray Manufacturing [[believe that's the name), the company that manufactures most of the railroad oil tank cars. It was promised that the Bakken oil producers could tap into the Keystone Pipeline and save $4 per bbl in transportation costs, and cost Berkshire millions of dollars annually.

So, of course Obama did as he was told and denied Canada the necessary permits to cross the border and build the pipeline in the U.S.
It was a huge economic blow to Canada, and it hurt U.S. consumers.

One of the first things Trump did was approve the pipeline thereby creating approximately 20,000 American construction jobs and several hundred permanent ones.

So what if Trump makes imprudent statements? There is nothing he can do to inflict any serious damage to U.S./Canadian relations.

And, Canada does apparently impose very high and unreasonable tariffs on several U.S. products.

And it's probable that because we live in an entirely different world than we did when NAFTA was passed, it's now time to take another look. [[Remember Ross Perot and his view of NAFTA when he ran for president, and the sucking sound you'd hear as U.S. manufacturing job left the country as a result? Perot was 10 times smarter than any president we've had in years and I did my part by voting for him.)

3WC you should check the figures from the US Census Bureau. Its does not look like an 8 billion dollar surplus. If fact is you start adding up the deficits from the last 20 years the numbers are eye opening.

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c1220.html

[Jason]

Trump's not making rational decisions based on people's interests because Trump doesn't care about other people's interests and because he's too lazy to study how the various issues actually work in order to make rational decisions. I wonder if years after demonstrating he didn't understand what trade deficits actually are if he's bothered to learn.

It completely dumbfounds me how someone like him can exist and that he became president.

I very genuinely believe that every single person who has posted in this thread would make a better president than president Trump. We all care more about eachother's wellbeing, and we'd all take the opportunity and responsibility seriously. We put more time and thought and goodwill into our current events discussions here than president Trump does for running the country.

[oladub]

I assume you just woke up from a three-year nap?

Putting aside the fact that DYes posters and the U.S. President aren't exactly subject to the same rules of public decorum, I don't think Trump has gone a week without saying something 10x as vile as any DYes forumers [[unless any of our forumers are fond of calling Nazis "fine people", Mexicans "rapists", mocking the handicapped, insulting parents of U.S. war dead, grabbing women in the pussy, calling foreign countries "shitholes", blacks "animals", Latinas "Miss Housekeeping" and generally being an epic d-bag of historic proportions).

It wasn't a three year nap, Obama's administration was an eight year nightmare. While you are so concerned about 'public decorum', I am more concerned about the hundreds of thousands of dead Arabs and millions of refugees created by Obama's foreign. In contrast, so far Trump hasn't bombed Canada. Democrats often seem to have a problem with proportion. This thread, however was about US Canada relations that involved harsh words by both Trump administration officials and Canadian officials. I just pointed out the some of the things Trump was being called on this thread were more hateful than anything Trump and Trudeau said of each other. Thank you for making my point. 3WC has a fine reply. Once the G-7 dust settles, Canadians will have to decide if they prefer Obama's 'public decorum' to Trump's offer to help tran$port Canadian oil.

3WC, I wasn't aware that First Nations held up the pipeline to the west coast. I followed a couple of other situations where Canadian First Nations claimed proposed pipelines crossed sacred land but eventually settled for tribal jobs and money.

[Richard]

Well,elect me president and I promise a new and improved version of spell check in everybody's cell phone and with the power of the pen I would draft an order commanding every service station to pass out those little styrofoam balls with a Canadian flag on it so every American can proudly display it on their cars antenna.

Somebody mentioned the fallout in Detroit,look around that, happened across the country years ago.

But I would highly doubt that Ford would be getting ready to drop billions into the city if they thought the future was as uncertain as it is made out to be.

[archfan]

But I would highly doubt that Ford would be getting ready to drop billions into the city if they thought the future was as uncertain as it is made out to be.

Trump explicitly threatened auto tariffs. Whether you believe tariffs will help the US economy or they will hurt the US economy, the chaos and uncertainty of auto tariffs will harm the auto industry until things reach a new equilibrium. Just bringing them up in a tweet will effect the risk calculation for investors.

[renf]

The Census Bureau trade numbers cited by p69rrh51 are for goods only, not for goods and services. Including services, I believe, leads to a different conclusion.

[Bham1982]

But I would highly doubt that Ford would be getting ready to drop billions into the city if they thought the future was as uncertain as it is made out to be.

Since when is Ford "getting ready to drop billions into the city"? They have an agreement to buy MCS for a pittance.

And what does this have to do with anything? A President can't be awful if a company enters into an agreement to buy a building?