Ontario turns right?

[Wesley Mouch]

Canadian defense spending is 1.3% of GDP, or about 20B per year on a 1.5T GDP.

A level i think is reasonable'ish.

Considering its the 14th highest in the world.

2017 CBC article:

Title: Canadian defence spending among lowest in NATO despite small increase last year

Subtitle: Canada pushed the percentage of its GDP spent on defence to 1.02 from 0.98 in 2016

The head of NATO threw down the gauntlet Monday, saying he expects all members to increase what they spend on their militaries even as a new report showed Canada lagging behind most of its allies.

Speaking in Brussels where he released his annual state-of-the-alliance report, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said it is incumbent on all members to spend two per cent of GDP on defence.

That is the target all NATO members, including Canada, agreed to work towards in 2014.

source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/nato...sels-1.4022576

[archfan]

2017 CBC article:

Title: Canadian defence spending among lowest in NATO despite small increase last year

Subtitle: Canada pushed the percentage of its GDP spent on defence to 1.02 from 0.98 in 2016



source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/nato...sels-1.4022576

It looks like things have changed since the article was written a year ago. They seem more in line with the $20B CA/1.3% of GDP.

[Wesley Mouch]

CV, I just wanted to take a moment to add a few thoughts to our sub-debate on Canada's Cheese OPEC-like cartel.

First off, supply management is broadly popular with 75% support from the general public.

From my Canadian friends and relatives, its not so much that Supply Management is popular, but there's a belief that Canadian milk and chicken [[and beef) is superior. And it seems to be true.

This seems to more be proof that advertising works than a deep understanding of how permitting a Cheese Mafia to function. The CM spends $120 million a year on advertising tp 37m Canadians about the wonders of their over-priced products. It seems to work.

The US market also produces some wonderful products of equal quality -- without restricting Americans ability to buy French cheese, or Canadian's ability to create craft cheeses.

Worth noting that your beef industry is not controlled by a price-fixing cartel, yet manages to produce a product the public sees as superior.

...
Second, Maxime Bernier a former cabinet minister in the Harper government, and known Libertarian, ran for the Conservative party leadership on just this issue.

He lost, to Andrew Scheer.

[[in fairness, Big Dairy may have had something to do w/that.....)

http://business.financialpost.com/op...-conservatives

I'm sure you've followed Mr. Bernier's exile from the Conservative party. Papers there suggest this may become a break between the true conservatives [[Bernier) who follow true conservative free-trade policies in the benefit of the public against big-conservatives [[Scheer and most others) who are happy to watch the public get screwed [[happily it seems) by a cartel.

Third, Canadians are acutely aware that Australia ditched supply management, and its dairy industry is going broke, and requiring government bailouts.

After early success, New Zealand is facing similar problems.

Thanks for the tips there. I knew nothing about this, and will read more.

My knee-jerk reaction is that even elimination of an evil can be hazardous and must be done carefully. Like the communists, the cheese mafia does function well in some ways -- and it has suppressed the market's ability to function to much that you can't just stop the addiction cold-turkey -- but I will read your links.

...
Finally, you know its like the US doesn't protect its industries in a vast assortment of ways, not just 'Buy American'.

Check out the way the US protects domestic sugar, tobacco and a host of other products.

True, very true. But also somewhat irrelevant. That the US behaves badly in protecting certain industries doesn't make centrally-planned and controlled profit theft good for Canadians. This is mainly what I wanted to write.

In the US, sure... there are subsidies. And there are rules. And these are bad. However subsidies are, they are much less evil than cartels.

Our subsidy is a cost to the US taxpayer. Every US citizen thus pays part of the cost of cheaper milk and cheese in the US. Since tax is mostly progressive, its paid mostly by higher-income and corporations.

Your cartel is a cost to the Canadian consumer as well. Every Canadian citizen pays $300-500 / year in increased costs for basic foodstuffs [[milk, dairy, poultry). That' a regressive tax on lower-income citizens, who spend more of their limited income on milk and cheese than they could in a free market.

Simple exercise. Look at these two approaches to protecting each countries milk markets from evil foreigners selling cheaper [[and maybe lower quality) milk to their citizens. Follow the money.

America: subsidy costs taxpayers, and is given back to taxpayers as cheaper product

Canada: cartel charges every citizen, gives a slightly better product, pockets the cash.