Detroit's Population -- declining more slowly

[Towne Cluber]

Right now Detroit wins vs the suburbs in areas that the suburbs can't directly compete at, which is urban living around downtown, and residential neighborhoods with strong senses of place and community.

The latter half of this statement is highly debatable.

[Towne Cluber]

The income tax crackdown on new residents from the suburbs who are living in Detroit but declaring their addresses and census counts in the burbs could tip things into the plus column. If they have to pay their city taxes they will likely change their census locations to Detroit.

So I disagree with Duggan. Yes schools are essential long run but in the short term insurance reforms tops the list of immediate attention. Get that in line with the metro and Detroit's population will soar.

Duggan was on top of this, even proposing an independent insurance solutions, but seems to have lost interest.

1. Get driving issues and car theft in Detroit in line with the metro and the insurance rates will drop.

2. There are more long-time Detroiters claiming the suburban addresses of friends/relatives/co-workers for car insurance purposes than that of new Detroiters doing it.

[mwilbert]

1. Get driving issues and car theft in Detroit in line with the metro and the insurance rates will drop.

They would drop, but that isn't the underlying problem. There are many places with driving issues and lots of car theft with much lower auto insurance rates. In this case, the system is the problem, and you would need enormous behavioral changes to allow the current system to function properly.

[Towne Cluber]

They would drop, but that isn't the underlying problem. There are many places with driving issues and lots of car theft with much lower auto insurance rates. In this case, the system is the problem, and you would need enormous behavioral changes to allow the current system to function properly.

You got the enormous behavioral changes part right--and it is the underlying problem. Where are these other places that are just like Detroit but with much lower auto insurance?

[mwilbert]

Cleveland, for one.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/20...eap/341704002/

[Towne Cluber]

Cleveland, for one.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/20...eap/341704002/

As has been previously discussed, No Fault and Unlimited Medical Coverage are the biggest systemic contributors to high auto insurance in Detroit...but nowhere in that article does it state that driving conditions in Detroit and Cleveland are similar.

[Jason]

The latter half of this statement is highly debatable.

I don't mean that those types of neighborhoods don't also exist in the suburbs, but within the region we have a limited supply of them. For some people, University District beats out Warren.

[313WX]

2. There are more long-time Detroiters claiming the suburban addresses of friends/relatives/co-workers for car insurance purposes than that of new Detroiters doing it.

Is this merely an assumption, or do you have stats to back up this claim?

[Towne Cluber]

Is this merely an assumption, or do you have stats to back up this claim?

Before I answer your question, I have to ask -- How did you not already know this...?

It's common knowledge that this has been going on for many years. More importantly, it's common sense and reasoning.

1. The number of new housing units [[downtown/midtown) represent a tiny fraction of the city's housing stock.

2. The number of new residents in Detroit represent a tiny fraction of the city's population.

3. When you have cases of officials and well-connected people doing it [[state reps/police/etc) then you know it's a wide-spread phenomenon.

4. I know of city and suburban workplaces where nearly everyone there whom lives in the city does it.

[Colombian Dan]

The median income in Detroit is $28,099 per year; well below the state median of $52,492. People who hide their addresses and or assets are usually people of more means than the average person. Detroit has very few people of means. Those that are hiding their real addresses are likely those with decent jobs making over $50k per year; clearly a minority in Detroit. As far as the actual number? Probably less than 10,000 people,.. not exactly a make or break for Detroit's census...

[Towne Cluber]

The median income in Detroit is $28,099 per year; well below the state median of $52,492. People who hide their addresses and or assets are usually people of more means than the average person. Detroit has very few people of means. Those that are hiding their real addresses are likely those with decent jobs making over $50k per year; clearly a minority in Detroit. As far as the actual number? Probably less than 10,000 people,.. not exactly a make or break for Detroit's census...

Funny, the people that I know that did/do it [[auto insurance) aren't people of means [[incomes well below $50k). They did/do it because they're trying to support themselves or their family on limited income.

[313WX]

Before I answer your question, I have to ask -- How did you not already know this...?

It's common knowledge that this has been going on for many years. More importantly, it's common sense and reasoning.

1. The number of new housing units [[downtown/midtown) represent a tiny fraction of the city's housing stock.

2. The number of new residents in Detroit represent a tiny fraction of the city's population.

3. When you have cases of officials and well-connected people doing it [[state reps/police/etc) then you know it's a wide-spread phenomenon.

4. I know of city and suburban workplaces where nearly everyone there whom lives in the city does it.

Please just answer my question, thanks.

[Bham1982]

The latter half of this statement is highly debatable.

Yeah, I was gonna say. Detroit has lots of historical properties, not available elsewhere in the region, but there are no intact urban neighborhoods, really.

You get the same general level of urbanity in many suburbs without the issues, hence the higher prices. Ferndale and Royal Oak are not less dense than a typical Detroit neighborhood. Birmingham and Ann Arbor do not have less cohesive urbanity than Midtown [[and have far more than Corktown or West Village).

[Bham1982]

As far as the actual number? Probably less than 10,000 people,.. not exactly a make or break for Detroit's census...

The number, for purposes of Census, is likely 0. Census estimates are not counts, they're imputed estimates, and they don't use insurance coverage to determine residency anyways.

The insurance issue, which is present in all major cities, is just used as a convenient excuse for the ongoing population loss.

[Towne Cluber]

Please just answer my question, thanks.

Basic math

[313WX]

Basic math

So you were just making an assumption. Got it!

[Towne Cluber]

So you were just making an assumption. Got it!

So you can't do basic math and reasoning. Got it!

[Meddle]

There was a fuss a while back about landlords giving up certain information related to this.

Both DTE and Detroit Water are public utilities, so why not use their records to help determine occupancy? If somebody claims they live at a certain address, there should be a corresponding utility bill for that address in that person's name. If they claim to live with someone else, monthly usage should help confirm or refute that.

[ABetterDetroit]

There was a fuss a while back about landlords giving up certain information related to this.

Both DTE and Detroit Water are public utilities, so why not use their records to help determine occupancy? If somebody claims they live at a certain address, there should be a corresponding utility bill for that address in that person's name. If they claim to live with someone else, monthly usage should help confirm or refute that.

Or we could NOT pay people to do redundant incomplete government work [[not everyone is on a utility bill) and instead expect that Lansing actually get its shit together for a change!

The data you are talking about already exists in another public entity we already paid for in W4 tax records, drivers licenses, state ID cards, vehicle registration, voter registration...

Sometimes the solutions are not rocket science but that doesn’t stop the idiots in charge from acting like every single issue is even harder.

[O3H]

Lots of people do not drive, do not vote, pay cash for housing,
and don't always get a bill for the utilities [[ non legal rentals).
How do you count the children up till 18 years of age
[[school records fall short for the dropouts)

[coracle]

We

How do you count the children up till 18 years of age.

Take your shoes and socks off.

[Bradley]

Looking forward to 2 million!

[BankruptcyGuy]

Has anyone heard any chatter/rumors about private school options in the works? I know it is a stopgap that will only cater to wealthy residents and not fix DPS, but if the theory is more middle/upper class residents are moving in will yield more tax dollars and better services, it would definitely help.

There is, as some have noted, a virtually complete disconnect between local tax base and school funding. DPSCD gets most of its funding from state foundation allowance and Title I [[federal) funding.

As a side note, and without getting overly political, the percentage of DPSCD's problems that are the result of lack of funding is approximately 0%.