Windsor Casino Rejects 2nd Tentative Agreement

[401don]

Employees must be feeling pretty confident about Windsor's economy. It was only a few years ago the unemployment rate was double digits. I think it's pretty rare for a union to reject a 2nd deal. Difficult to form an opinion but unskilled workers, housekeepers, etc., should be happy making more than the new $15.00 Ontario minimum wage shouldn't they?

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...ment/35067071/

[davewindsor]

Employees must be feeling pretty confident about Windsor's economy. It was only a few years ago the unemployment rate was double digits. I think it's pretty rare for a union to reject a 2nd deal. Difficult to form an opinion but unskilled workers, housekeepers, etc., should be happy making more than the new $15.00 Ontario minimum wage shouldn't they?

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...ment/35067071/

The union greed is absolutely ridiculous. It gives Windsor a bad name. Caesar's should pull out and the OLG should tear down the casino like the Windsor Racetrack. No one I know supports those retards. They're already paid a lot more than minimum wage and they were offered a $2.25 an hour wage increase plus a $1,600 sign on bonus for full timers and $1,200 for part-timers and they get huge tips on top of that.

I spoke to a black jack dealer at Greek Town a year ago and he told me he made $7 an hour plus tips. The tips made it double to triple. How is Caesar's supposed to compete with the comps offered by the Detroit 3? Caesar's has 2,300 employees on their payroll and they have to deal with this union BS?? It never turned a profit before it was run by Caesar's.

Tear the casino down and those union pricks can go collect welfare or get a real job in a factory. It gets me so upset reading about it every couple days and everyone I know says the same thing. The average Windsor resident thinks they've lost their minds.

[401don]

The union greed is absolutely ridiculous. It gives Windsor a bad name. Caesar's should pull out and the OLG should tear down the casino like the Windsor Racetrack. No one I know supports those retards. They're already paid a lot more than minimum wage and they were offered a $2.25 an hour wage increase plus a $1,600 sign on bonus for full timers and $1,200 for part-timers and they get huge tips on top of that.

I spoke to a black jack dealer at Greek Town a year ago and he told me he made $7 an hour plus tips. The tips made it double to triple. How is Caesar's supposed to compete with the comps offered by the Detroit 3? Caesar's has 2,300 employees on their payroll and they have to deal with this union BS?? It never turned a profit before it was run by Caesar's.

Tear the casino down and those union pricks can go collect welfare or get a real job in a factory. It gets me so upset reading about it every couple days and everyone I know says the same thing. The average Windsor resident thinks they've lost their minds.

There were no wage details in the News article but I assumed they making a lot more than minimum. The fact the Ont. Gov't built that 2nd tower, basically bankrupting the other downtown hotels, was ridiculous as well.

[davewindsor]

There were no wage details in the News article but I assumed they making a lot more than minimum. The fact the Ont. Gov't built that 2nd tower, basically bankrupting the other downtown hotels, was ridiculous as well.

$20-$30 an hour. And they want the same increase as minimum wage, so we're talking what, another 35% plus tips?

[Canadian Visitor]

$20-$30 an hour. And they want the same increase as minimum wage, so we're talking what, another 35% plus tips?

Where did you two get the idea this was about a larger raise, in the main?

After seeing this thread, I googled the story to see what I could pick up.

Based on the link below:

http://windsorstar.com/news/local-ne...our-disruption

" Unifor national president Jerry Dias came to Windsor for a rally April 22 and said the dispute was about a lack of respect, disputes over scheduling, too many part-time workers who don’t get benefits and minimum wage workers in an industry that makes millions of dollars a year.

and

One worker on the picket line who didn’t want to be named Monday for fear of retaliation from management said he wishes the various employee groups, from security to hotel workers, had more time to consider the details of the agreement before voting Friday. He said workers acted on emotions and many people were angry about the fourth year added to the contract. He also wanted language to address scheduling and vacation time based on seniority.

With no inside knowledge on my part, it doesn't sound like wages are at the heart of this, it sounds like scheduling above all else. Staff who don't get fixed hours, never mind full-time hours, whose pay cheque bounces up and down week to week due to varied and unpredictable hours, as well as many folks working part-time who get a lower hourly wage than F/T staff w/no benefits.
AS someone who employs people, I would never treat my staff that way. Even seasonal get the same hours week in, week out, so they can plan their lives and rely on the same pay each week. IT rather concerns me that you both instantly go the idea that greed is at the heart of this dispute without ever verifying that to be the case. If you have additional insight feel free to offer it.

But based on what's public domain, it sounds like we have staff who don't like getting @##@% over; and left unable to count on their job to pay the bills.

Doesn't read as overly greedy at first blush.

[davewindsor]

Where did you two get the idea this was about a larger raise, in the main?

Since you are unfamiliar with union lingo, let's go through this again.

" Unifor national president Jerry Dias came to Windsor for a rally April 22 and said the dispute was about a lack of respect, disputes over scheduling, too many part-time workers who donÂ’t get benefits and minimum wage workers in an industry that makes millions of dollars a year.

Three main issues mentioned:
Lack of respect = Union talk for not enough money.
Scheduling is in a separate coma.
Newbies = part-time workers and temps [[minimum wage workers). Most companies in the service sector that are not union usually start people part-time and they eventually become full-timers depending on how they are evaluated by their supervisors. It's just normal business practice.

Respect and scheduling are two separate issues in seperate comas. Not the same thing. They want respect = they want a much larger paycheque. That's all it means.

Slot attendants and servers make around $20 an hour plus tips. It's in the earlier article. A wage increase plus an increased $1,600 sign on bonus is not enough money? That's just greed.

These aren't skilled jobs. What does the union expect? To put the casino out of business?? The casino stated repeatedly they don't have the money for higher wage increases than offered, which is why they stopped talking for large periods of time. Scheduling is workable. But, higher hourly increases? You can't squeeze blood out of a stone.

With no inside knowledge on my part, it doesn't sound like wages are at the heart of this, it sounds like scheduling above all else.

Cry me a river. With 2,300 employees, it's not about scheduling because there isn't a lack of employees. If someone doesn't want a shift, they could easily pass it off to someone else. You can't expect to get the best, highest tip paying Saturday evening shifts every week if you refuse to take the slow, low tip paying shifts. It's a 24/7 casino. You have to take them both to show the supervisor you're reliable and then you get more shifts.

Comparatively speaking, they are all doing way better than the non-union competing Detroit 3 casinos, which makes it about greed. They would not make this kind of money in any other service job in Windsor. Do you think hotels and restaurants pay this kind of money, sign on bonuses and benefits that union casino workers get?

More importantly, how is the casino supposed to make money when their labour expenses are a lot higher than the Detroit 3 casinos? If there wasn't a greedy union there, I bet you most of the workers would be there full time.

If workers don't like it, quit and find work elsewhere instead of being whiney, bi-ches. Otherwise, tear it down. Windsor has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the province now, so don't give me that nonsense that they have no choice.

BTW--casino workers live off the misery of others, so don't expect me to feel sympathetic because someone didn't get their shift. Somebody who does that is not on the same level as, say, a restaurant server as Swiss Chalet. I don't know how someone can work there and sleep well at night. If it wasn't about greed, they wouldn't continue working there. They should just tear the place down instead of giving them huge increases that come from the misery of others.

[ASilvaman]

The union greed is absolutely ridiculous. It gives Windsor a bad name. Caesar's should pull out and the OLG should tear down the casino like the Windsor Racetrack. No one I know supports those retards. They're already paid a lot more than minimum wage and they were offered a $2.25 an hour wage increase plus a $1,600 sign on bonus for full timers and $1,200 for part-timers and they get huge tips on top of that.

I spoke to a black jack dealer at Greek Town a year ago and he told me he made $7 an hour plus tips. The tips made it double to triple. How is Caesar's supposed to compete with the comps offered by the Detroit 3? Caesar's has 2,300 employees on their payroll and they have to deal with this union BS?? It never turned a profit before it was run by Caesar's.

Tear the casino down and those union pricks can go collect welfare or get a real job in a factory. It gets me so upset reading about it every couple days and everyone I know says the same thing. The average Windsor resident thinks they've lost their minds.

What gets me upset is when people such as yourself say that factory jobs are the only real job. I guess everyone else from law enforcement to nurses and construction folks are just flunkies collecting paycheck for nothing. You're nothing unless your in a factory standing next to a robot that's basically doing the hard work for you? Let me be the first to tell you that your so-called real jobs are gonna be obsolete in 5 years, what are manly men gonna call a "real job" then?

[Richard]

What gets me upset is when people such as yourself say that factory jobs are the only real job. I guess everyone else from law enforcement to nurses and construction folks are just flunkies collecting paycheck for nothing. You're nothing unless your in a factory standing next to a robot that's basically doing the hard work for you? Let me be the first to tell you that your so-called real jobs are gonna be obsolete in 5 years, what are manly men gonna call a "real job" then?

That mindset has become all to common,unless you have a piece of paper with 10 degrees on it your dirt.That is why teachers,Leo,firefighters etc get so much disrespect.

My favorite is handing a lawyer a bill for $300 and watching their reaction,it is always,what ? It has only been an hour,I say yep and if I hired you it would be $500 an hour,that will be cash only please.

Anybody working a respectable job should be given the same respect that one expects in return,it does not matter what it is.

[davewindsor]

What gets me upset is when people such as yourself say that factory jobs are the only real job. I guess everyone else from law enforcement to nurses and construction folks are just flunkies collecting paycheck for nothing. You're nothing unless your in a factory standing next to a robot that's basically doing the hard work for you? Let me be the first to tell you that your so-called real jobs are gonna be obsolete in 5 years, what are manly men gonna call a "real job" then?

I guess there's a misunderstanding about what I meant about that statement. I never said factory work was the only real job. A factory worker isn't profiting off the misery of others like a casino employee. Casino workers are generally unskilled laborers, so they could easily quit the casino job and work in a factory. Nothing wrong with working in law enforcement, nursing, construction, etc. It's real work. But, to be a nurse, you need years of education first so it's not easy for a casino worker to transfer over to that field. But if they found a job immediately after quitting in the police department or in construction, that's fine because they are not profiting off the misery of others.

[Meddle]

When I wasn't sure if my job would pay my bills, I either changed jobs or cut my bills. I didn't try to extort my employer.

But I still say, close all casinos and ban gambling in all forms, including government run lotteries.

[Zacha341]

Ah, shucks another day of NOT gambling. Cry me a river.

Our crapsino's have to be happy!!

[Richard]

Interesting the mindset of Because the company makes millions it should base the pay on that,if they have a loseing year can they also deduct from the salaries to offset the loss?

There was a casino that the currant president owned and sold,after the sale the union stepped in and demand more compensation,they ended up bankrupting it and 1800 lost their jobs.

[Richard]

^ you ever been to see a chick flick,that can be boat loads of misery.

People at casinos that win do not seem miserable.

Anyrate,June 1st is a scheduled walkout deadline in Las Vegas with up to 50,000 employees.I wonder who is going through be booking rooms at that time.

[Canadian Visitor]

^ you ever been to see a chick flick,that can be boat loads of misery.

People at casinos that win do not seem miserable.

Anyrate,June 1st is a scheduled walkout deadline in Las Vegas with up to 50,000 employees.I wonder who is going through be booking rooms at that time.

Just to prove I'm a good sport.

Richard made the above post and I endorse it. LOL

[davewindsor]

^ you ever been to see a chick flick,that can be boat loads of misery.

You're comparing watching a chick flick to people going broke at a casino? There's no connection.

People at casinos that win do not seem miserable.

It's the misery that happens after they go broke. Casinos promote a fantasy lifestyle of what it would be like to win a lot of money. We all know that doesn't happen; otherwise, the casino wouldn't be able to afford a payroll of 2,300 employees.

Anyrate,June 1st is a scheduled walkout deadline in Las Vegas with up to 50,000 employees.I wonder who is going through be booking rooms at that time.

Not relevant to Caesar's Windsor.

[Richard]

You're comparing watching a chick flick to people going broke at a casino? There's no connection.

The connection is you have the option to walk out or not enter in the first place.

It's the misery that happens after they go broke. Casinos promote a fantasy lifestyle of what it would be like to win a lot of money. We all know that doesn't happen; otherwise, the casino wouldn't be able to afford a payroll of 2,300 employees.

Kinda like the lottery that every state pretty much has or when sears had a sale on tools.But that is a part of being an adult,sometimes you just do not win all of the time.

Maybe the casinos can start giving out participation trophy's at the door so it would make people feel better.

Not relevant to Caesar's Windsor.

Neither is the discussion about regulating adult vices or forms of entertainment that we do not agree with,we can disagree with them which is our right,but the topic was about union beefs verses management.

People profit from misery whether it is self inflicted or not,funeral homes and even cute as a box of new born puppies Hallmark cards,you cannot save the world by elimination misery,because then there would be no company,in the plural sense,if you get that one.

What is getting ready to happen in Las Vegas has everything to do with Caeser's Windsor because of a little thing called prevailing wage and what the industry standard is.

The question that remains is now that the economy is doing well and that is a part of the argument of raising the wages,what happens in the next down turn?

Will they be able to retain the level of employees consistently,the experts are saying that the next recession is in 2020 based on cycles of the past,so any concessions made now are going to be interesting to watch and see how it plays out.

If they are saying the casino is making more money now in the rise the same argument will be used in a downturn with layoffs and back to the table again for cuts.

[Wesley Mouch]

...snip...
Will they be able to retain the level of employees consistently,the experts are saying that the next recession is in 2020 based on cycles of the past,so any concessions made now are going to be interesting to watch and see how it plays out.

If they are saying the casino is making more money now in the rise the same argument will be used in a downturn with layoffs and back to the table again for cuts.

Richard makes a good point. [[In the US at least), corporations cannot conspire/collude on wages.

But Unions can conspire and collude. They are allowed to strategize on wages. And what one company agrees to is used in negotiation and in arbitration to legally set the wages that MUST be paid. In this way, Union wages are very sticky.

I am not saying this is the case here, but an American union representing casino workers in Vegas could financially support their brothers and sister in Windsor financially and legally to get the highest wage possible there. Then that fact could be used to require a Vegas casino to pay a wage based on that.

And we know that its not legal for GM to support Ford during their own hard labor times.

[Bham1982]

Richard makes a good point. [[In the US at least), corporations cannot conspire/collude on wages.

Why not? They do this all the time. There is nothing illegal about corporations colluding on wages. There are antitrust laws, of course, but there is no general ban on corporations colluding on such matters.

[davewindsor]

You're comparing watching a chick flick to people going broke at a casino? There's no connection.

The connection is you have the option to walk out or not enter in the first place.

That's not a connection. Going to a movie theatre one night might set you back $20, but going to Caesar's to gamble one night could bankrupt you. One is purely entertainment because there's a cap on how much you can realistically loose and it's insignificant.

A gambling house creates an opportunity for misery that wouldn't be there if it didn't exist.

Just like if you leave your keys in your car in Detroit when you run into a convenience store. You create an opportunity for misery. There's a good chance your car will get stolen by marginal passerby, especially if they are high or intoxicated. Now, an intoxicated driver steals the car and hits somebody or crashes into something causing further misery including misery from the intoxicated driver getting injured, there's added health care costs on the taxpayer and increased insurance premiums, all because someone created an opportunity by leaving their keys inside the car while walking inside a building.

Casinos create an opportunity for misery in society that wouldn't exist if it wasn't there.

It's the misery that happens after they go broke. Casinos promote a fantasy lifestyle of what it would be like to win a lot of money. We all know that doesn't happen; otherwise, the casino wouldn't be able to afford a payroll of 2,300 employees.

Kinda like the lottery that every state pretty much has or when sears had a sale on tools.But that is a part of being an adult,sometimes you just do not win all of the time.

Lotteries is gambling. I am opposed to that too, but we're talking about casino gambling at Caesar's. I don't know how a sale on tools at even Sears makes sense because you can return your tools to Sears in 30 days for a full refund or sell it in the paper for a partial refund, but you can't get your money back once you spent it at a casino. Which leads to another issue some people like to refer to gambler's syndrome where they start playing a game, loose money, and then continue playing trying to win back the money they lost, which rarely happens.

A lot of adults are not perfectly rational in their choices, so it's not part of being an adult. That's why they vote for politicians to regulate their lives. A purely libertarian answer doesn't work because the majority of people don't vote for the libertarian party and believe society should be completely unregulated and adults can be trusted making free choices on everything.

Maybe the casinos can start giving out participation trophy's at the door so it would make people feel better.

Casinos do a lot of things to try to make people feel better. Free drinks, comps, concert tickets, etc. All things to make them feel better to try to get them back to spend more.

Not relevant to Caesar's Windsor.


Neither is the discussion about regulating adult vices or forms of entertainment that we do not agree with,we can disagree with them which is our right,but the topic was about union beefs verses management.

People profit from misery whether it is self inflicted or not,funeral homes and even cute as a box of new born puppies Hallmark cards,you cannot save the world by elimination misery,because then there would be no company,in the plural sense,if you get that one.

People profiting from selling puppies and hallmark cards or anything else is misery? That's not misery. What are you, a communist?

What is getting ready to happen in Las Vegas has everything to do with Caeser's Windsor because of a little thing called prevailing wage and what the industry standard is.

No, it doesn't. You are there to make the company money. If you're not making money for the company, you should be fired. If you don't like your wages, quit and find work elsewhere. If their job was worth more, they would pay more so they wouldn't be understaffed and there wouldn't be a need for a strike for more money.

Funny how your first response to my post was "you have the option to walk out or not enter in the first place."

Well, the employee has the same option to walk out and quit and work somewhere else instead of going on strike and preventing the casino from hiring someone else to do the job.

[softailrider]

There are certain games in the casino where, if you are knowledgeable you can reduce the house advantage to under 3%. When you are at a blackjack table, and you basic strategy is perfect, you are able to count tens and aces in the decks or shoe AND you manage your money correctly the player can have a SLIGHT advantage over the house. When you’re playing at a blackjack table with automatic shuffle machines this may not be true. However, in a handheld or shoe game it is definitely true.

I am certainly not able to do the above, but I enjoy going to the casino a couple times a year, or if I’m on a long weekend up North. I probably lose most but not all of the time. I do not ever play slot machines, I stick with games where the house advantage is very low. Those casino visits haven’t turned me into a degenerate or made me file for bankruptcy.

[davewindsor]

There are certain games in the casino where, if you are knowledgeable you can reduce the house advantage to under 3%. When you are at a blackjack table, and you basic strategy is perfect, you are able to count tens and aces in the decks or shoe AND you manage your money correctly the player can have a SLIGHT advantage over the house. When you’re playing at a blackjack table with automatic shuffle machines this may not be true. However, in a handheld or shoe game it is definitely true.

I am certainly not able to do the above, but I enjoy going to the casino a couple times a year, or if I’m on a long weekend up North. I probably lose most but not all of the time. I do not ever play slot machines, I stick with games where the house advantage is very low. Those casino visits haven’t turned me into a degenerate or made me file for bankruptcy.

How much did you loose there this past year? I suspect you didn't mention it because you're the not the kind of patron that keeps it in business and 2,300 employees employed by not playing slots and sticking with games where the house advantage is very low and only showing up there a couple times a year. I don't think it would be in business if all their patrons had as much self-control as you. Can you even fathom how much money they need to make each day just to break even with such a huge payroll?

BTW--I never said someone who visits a casino and looses most of their money there is a degenerate. I was referring to the casino employees who profit off the misery of others.

[Richard]

^ So as an executive you would except the same livable wage as you would pay your employees?Or do you enjoy a higher salary?

Are your employees paid based on how much the company makes or how much you feel they should make and how do you come to that number?

If your company is showing growth one year but less growth the next,do you adjust the employees salary to coencide?

Not trying to be argumentative but I have always paid based on industry standards and skill sets,with end of the year bonus for productivity the casino workers for the most part would be considered service industry workers.

I guess the dealers make more but they also receive tips,and nothing to sneeze at from what I hear anyways.

I can walk to the Hard Rock by me but have never been in there,the parking lot and garages are packed 24/7,I have a friend that hires there and she says they receive up to 300 applications per week but really the only way to get hired is if you know somebody,the pay is not all that great and they have a high turnover but they also have a long line waiting to get in.

Most large businesses run such,as they are a buisness and they are not required to be the good guys,and people have that choice except what is offered or go elsewhere,that is capitalism and maybe the downside of it but it still is not anywhere near as bad as socialism where you do not have a choice.

[Richard]

Dave

I agree,if an employee is happy they should quit and move on to better things,if the casino has a hard time finding employees then they would increase the wages to fill the demand.That is kinda how it works,the whole supply and demand thing.

Even at that I find probably 1 out of 10 applicants that actually work,so start out at prevailing wage and if they show potential then you raise their wages,it is a waste of money to hire at top pay starting out.

Workers are no different then employers when it comes to responsibility,rate of pay does not guarantee dedication,no matter how much you pay,if an employee gets a better offer they are gone without a second thought or notice,so it is a double edge sword.

On the lighter side,I used to date a Chinese girl,her father would get mad at her mother and grab his mistress and hop on a plane from Orlando to Vegas and blow a million dollars and be back by 6,that was his therapy,it must have worked because they were married over 60 years.

Putting you two together would have been interesting entertainment to watch.

I rarely gamble,mostly because I suck at it,but that does not make me feel I should encourage the government to regulate everybody else's feelings on it.We do not need to government looking out for our best interest 24/7,that's that whole dictatorship thing again.

[davewindsor]

On the lighter side,I used to date a Chinese girl,her father would get mad at her mother and grab his mistress and hop on a plane from Orlando to Vegas and blow a million dollars and be back by 6,that was his therapy,it must have worked because they were married over 60 years.

Putting you two together would have been interesting entertainment to watch.

Oh ya, it would be interesting. I know people who gamble. One night one tells me his wife said she will divorce him if he loses any more money at the casino and then he's like, "Hey, I feel lucky, I want to go to the casino because it's a short walk nearby." I don't know how I got dragged there, but I watch him initially win, tell him repeatedly he's ahead, it's good, let's get out of here, and he continues playing until he loses all of his money. Later he tells me how his wife was swearing at him for losing all of their money. It makes me sick to my stomach.