Pedestrian killing spree in Detroit

[O3H]

Everyone glosses over Cameras for pedestrians, cyclists, etc.

http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/loca...acking-robbery

[Honky Tonk]

Everyone glosses over Cameras for pedestrians, cyclists, etc.

http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/loca...acking-robbery

I thought they played Cricket on the field behind the Casino on Belle Isle?

[O3H]

Should Project Green Light be expanded to intersections ?

http://www.greenlightdetroit.org/faqs/

[O3H]

Perhaps cameras NEED to be installed at the worst intersections

The Most Dangerous Intersections In Michigan

Nearly half of all traffic accidents are caused at intersections and these are the most dangerous, according to a new report.

https://patch.com/michigan/detroit/m...tions-michigan

[Jimaz]

...The Most Dangerous Intersections In Michigan...

Sometimes a quote helps:

Here are the top 20 most dangerous intersections in the state:

1. 11 Mile Road/I-696 at Van Dyke Avenue in Warren/Center Line, Macomb County: 194 total crashes, 32 injury crashes
2. 18 ½ Mile Road at Van Dyke Avenue in Sterling Heights, Macomb County: 165 total crashes, 13 injury crashes
3. Telegraph Road at 12 Mile Road in Southfield, Oakland County: 150 Total Crashes, 23 Injury Crashes
4. Orchard Lake Road at 14 Mile road in Farmington Hills/West Bloomfield Township, Oakland County: 144 total crashes, 24 Injury crashes
5. Martin Parkway at Pontiac Trail in Commerce Township, Oakland County: 142 total crashes, 9 injury crashes
6. I-75 at Big Beaver Road in Troy, Oakland County: 120 total crashes, 13 injury crashes
7. Metropolitan Parkway at Mound Road in Sterling Heights, Macomb County: 117 total crashes, 24 injury crashes
8. Schoolcraft Road at Telegraph Road in Redford Township, Wayne County: 112 total crashes, 16 injury crashes
9. State Street at Ellsworth Road in Ann Arbor/Pittsfield Township, Washtenaw County: 110 total crashes, 2 injury crashes
10. Ford Road at Lilley Road in Canton, Wayne County: 109 total crashes, 24 injury crashes
11. Hall Road/M-59 at Schoenherr Road in Utica/Sterling Heights, Macomb County: 107 total crashes, 23 injury crashes
12. 23 Mile Road at I-94 in Chesterfield, Macomb County: 104 total crashes, 36 injury crashes
13. Metropolitan Parkway at Van Dyke Avenue in Sterling Heights, Macomb County: 102 total crashes, 23 injury crashes
14. Southfield Road at 11 Mile Road in Lathrup Village, Oakland County: 102 total crashes, 17 injury crashes
15. Hall Road/M-59 at Romeo Plank Road in Clinton Township, Macomb County: 95 total crashes, 34 injury crashes
16. U.S. 131 at Wealthy Street in Grand Rapids, Kent County: 91 total crashes, 13 injury crashes
17. Dix Avenue at M-39 in Lincoln Park, Wayne County: 90 total crashes, 32 injury crashes
18. I-75 at M-59 Interchange in Auburn Hills, Oakland County: 90 total crashes, 27 injury crashes
19. 6 Mile Road at I-275/I-96 in Livonia, Wayne County:89 total crashes, 24 injury crashes
20. Ford Road at Haggerty Road in Canton, Wayne County: 89 total crashes, 20 injury crashes

[O3H]

Sooooo how many dangerous intersections exist in Detroit,
with all that traffic, at a major crossroad, huh ?????

Makes you wonder how a Detroit pedestrian gets hit at all,
[[unless they un-intentionally placed themselves in harms way)

[bust]

Town Cluber I'll grant that people taking over the streets in neighborhoods where car traffic is light has become more a Detroit phenomenon than something you'll frequently encounter in NYC. But it sure as heck happens there too. You must have seen the images: opening up a fire hydrant to cool off in the street during the summer is a New York City tradition. As is spraying down passing cars... The city can't stop it so now you can request the fire department to come open one up for you. And they really come do it. That's to install a city-approved fire hydrant attachment that limits the water flow so water pressure isn't dangerously lowered in the event there's a nearby fire. But some people still open them themselves, of course, the old-fashioned way. You don't see stickball anymore, but kids need somewhere to play.

I think the way people in some Detroit residential areas sometimes stare down unfamiliar cars has a lot to do with asserting ownership over the neighborhood. That happens in New York too, but more on the sidewalks than the streets. And not where you're likely to go as a tourist. New York has quiet residential neighborhoods, but they're not nearly as vacant as Detroit's. It's simply much bigger and denser and unfamiliar cars drive through every neighborhood, all the time. NYC has much better street surfaces, sidewalks, street lighting, and safety [[in general) too.

But I'll hold my ground on this point: I don't know a US city with a worse jaywalking problem than NY. Like almost every New Yorker I'm a habitual jaywalker myself. If the pedestrian fatality rate is much lower in NY than in Detroit jaywalking cannot be the explanation.

I think the difference is that new yorkers jaywalk more carefully. And moreso: when they drive, they drive more carefully, vigilant for jaywalkers and every other thing that can suddenly appear in front of you. If you live in New York you quickly get used to having to do that. In Detroit most people whether walking or driving get used to having to pay a lot less attention.

That's why I suggested Detroit would benefit from better roads, sidewalks, sidewalks, signs, and traffic-calming measures. Streets in Detroit are way too wide for the traffic they carry. Speed limits are too high. There aren't enough bikers and bike lanes. And I dislike street bumps when I drive as much as everyone else, but they force you to slow down and pay attention. Implement some of these improvements / changes to Detroit street design and fewer pedestrian deaths would result.

For an honest perspective on how much jaywalking exists in NYC, David Byrne filmed a video of the streets near Times Square from his bicycle. Try counting how many jaywalkers you see. Toward the end he even mentions how it's important to be careful around cars with out-of-state plates because drivers from outside New York are not used to sharing the road:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVkAD_zHsJY

Here's another video, from the perspective of a pedestrian walking from the Empire State Building to Central Park. Lots more jaywalkers. Even the videographer jaywalks while filming. You can also see all kinds of examples of the traffic-taming measures NYC has put in place:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO4tjI43Ob4

[Towne Cluber]

Bust, I give you credit for making a somewhat better case, but I'm going to hold my ground as well. I [[and others) am talking about major thoroughfares [[with 30-35+ mph speed limits) such as Fenkell, McNichols, 7 Mile, State Fair, etc. I'm not talking about residential side streets [[25 mph). In the case of the former, virtually every car is an unfamiliar one. Unfortunately, you're still romanticizing, downplaying, and outright excusing the behavior and that's part of the problem. It isn't a matter of taking ownership of the neighborhood--rather it is powerless people foolishly trying to exert a little bit of control as well as thumbing their nose at mainstream behavior and society. For some, I think there is also an element of hoping to get hit [[with little to no injury) for an insurance settlement. That is part of the concept of the "Detroit Lottery".

In terms of the videos--people walking in a bike lane due to extremely crowded sidewalks as well as people slightly jaywalking [[just outside the crosswalk) at a red light isn't what we're talking about here. We're talking about people walking in an actual traffic lane [[with an open sidewalk available), people walking in the actual middle of the street, and people actually jaywalking in the middle of the block in front of oncoming traffic.

[iheartthed]

I really hope that you're not one of those people that gets personal amusement from seeing pedestrians/drivers dodging each other in Detroit. Worse yet, I hope you're not someone that revels in it because they might not look like you.

I will derive my amusement from seeing photos of you in New York. Let's see them.

[O3H]

I would rather see cameras on some of those busy intersections.
Bust those pedestrians walking -into- traffic, and the hit-and-run cars.

[kathy2trips]

And yet, some people don't want cameras in the city for survelliance, safety and social justice ????

With the lack of police presence in this spread-out town, combined with very little street lighting and Michigan laws that make it almost impossible to convict for street crime, you'd think that Detroiters would clamor for surveillance cameras. Heh! Watch a couple of episodes of those "See No Evil" crime shows on the ID channel and you'll change your mind, double quick!

[O3H]

If you lead a clean life, there is little to be worried about, with cameras.

Many cities are implementing them
https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/cit...y-cameras-data

[kathy2trips]

Meanwhile cops have started to ticket cyclists who disobey the rules, just like motorists -- even if both still break the rules fairly regularly.

This is happening in Houston, too. Recently, instead of walking her bike in a crosswalk [[as is the law), a woman rode it to cross the street. A motorist hit her and she was killed. He was not charged because she disobeyed the law. He had the right of way; she did not.

[iheartthed]

This is happening in Houston, too. Recently, instead of walking her bike in a crosswalk [[as is the law), a woman rode it to cross the street. A motorist hit her and she was killed. He was not charged because she disobeyed the law. He had the right of way; she did not.

Most pedestrians actually are killed in crosswalk accidents [[and not walking in the middle of empty streets, lol). It sounds like there is still a bit of debate about who is at fault in the Houston incident.

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...e-12896640.php

And to my point before about road design playing a big factor in pedestrian fatality rates:

Scientist and Rice professor Marjorie Corcoran, 66, also died there on Feb. 3, 2017 when she biked over a set of Metro tracks along Fannin and Sunset and was hit by a crossing light rail train.

Sunset crosses both Fannin and Main, bridging Rice University and Hermann Park. Fannin and Main run parallel to each other and are a short distance apart.

“Both of these women were familiar with what is a very complex, very confusing, very busy intersection that divides two idyllic, people-oriented environments,” said John Long, executive director of bicycle safety group BikeHouston. “You’ve got these two urbane, people-centric environments separated by this dangerous no man’s land that’s designed for motor vehicles and not for people.”

The city of Houston and Houston Metro have been working on a plan to adjust the intersection, although those plans aren’t finalized, officials with both groups said.

[Towne Cluber]

I will derive my amusement from seeing photos of you in New York. Let's see them.

You not knowing Detroit nor New York isn't amusing.

[mikefmich]

JESUS CHRIST. Pick a better title! I thought we had one of the those "Car mows down people" attacks downtown or something! Of the course the title is a bit uncouth for that.

But but....the OP wouldn't get the desired troll effect, ya know?

[O3H]

The title fits well - even nicely, I must say.
What ever pre-conceived ""notion"" people have in their heads,
is way beyond my control, I don't control peoples thoughts.