Pedestrian killing spree in Detroit

[bust]

You mean if people CARE - less people die - you don't say.

I didn't say. It's possible New Yorkers care less, but the fact of life is they must be more vigilant when driving, and so they are -- for their own benefit.

If the title made you THINK, it was all worth it.

Scare tactics trigger reflexes, not thinking. We should do more thinking. Not saying you're not thoughtful... You clearly are.

I got a ticket while biking in New York last year during one of the initiatives to bring more awareness to bicycle safety. I forgot the exact amount of the ticket, but it was somewhere in the $250 neighborhood.

Oof! That's steep.

Gonna put this here again, in response to that:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzE-IMaegzQ

[O3H]

Metaphors make complex concepts easier to digest, they inevitably simplify, shape, and distort our perceptions of these concepts, changing our thoughts in ways that we are not aware of.

Metaphor is a fundamental mechanism of mind, one that allows us to use what we know about our physical and social experience to provide understanding of countless other subjects.

I merely used some words - what people thought - well, that is up to them

As George Lakoff often says : """Don't think of an elephant"""
-- and what do people do ????

https://georgelakoff.com/research/

[Towne Cluber]

Bust, you're making an entirely different argument and then conflating the two topics. The original point is about pedestrians--not bikes, double-parked cars, delivery trucks, your relatives driving ability, etc. Bottom line, compared to Detroit, there simply isn't the same level of people in NYC walking in the middle of the street, in the street [[next to the sidewalk), in the street in dark clothing at night, walking into the middle of right of way traffic [[i.e. in front of green lights) and staring you down, etc. Nor is there the amount [[percentage at least) of uninsured/unlicensed drivers, hit and runs, wreckless driving, police chases, and impaired driving.

[casscorridor]

Smaller streets, traffic calming, lower speeds, protected bike lanes, more pedestrian crossings. Blaming people's habits isn't really productive here, the city can make changes in order to improve safety and the pedestrian experience.

[Towne Cluber]

Smaller streets, traffic calming, lower speeds, protected bike lanes, more pedestrian crossings. Blaming people's habits isn't really productive here, the city can make changes in order to improve safety and the pedestrian experience.

Justifying anti-social and dangerous habits isn't really productive here, no amount of government intervention can improve safety if individuals exercise their free choice to act irresponsibly.

[O3H]

It's about making an EFFORT to reduce the death toll.
By showing some amount of care, Detroit can begin to foster
"some" respect for pedestrians and cyclists

[Towne Cluber]

It's about making an EFFORT to reduce the death toll.
By showing some amount of care, Detroit can begin to foster
"some" respect for pedestrians and cyclists

Effort and respect from government, drivers, bikers, and pedestrians alike.

[O3H]

Quite definitely, respect/tolerance needs to flow in all directions

[iheartthed]

Bust, you're making an entirely different argument and then conflating the two topics. The original point is about pedestrians--not bikes, double-parked cars, delivery trucks, your relatives driving ability, etc. Bottom line, compared to Detroit, there simply isn't the same level of people in NYC walking in the middle of the street, in the street [[next to the sidewalk), in the street in dark clothing at night, walking into the middle of right of way traffic [[i.e. in front of green lights) and staring you down, etc.

I don't think you are of the authority to make that assessment. Both he and I have lived in NYC and we are telling you that you are incorrect. It is downright ridiculous to say that there are more people walking in the streets in Detroit than New York, per capita or raw numbers, and anyone who actually knows both places would know that. Who are you to tell us we're wrong? I doubt you have ever even been to New York.

[stasu1213]

How many of these casualties are due to pedestrians crossing busy streets such as Telegraph, 8 mile, Grand River, Michigan and other thoroughfare wearing dark clothing at night and not crossing at a light but sometimes walking in front approaching car expecting it to stop for them. I had that happened to me numerous of times. The person just cross the busy avenue and just walk into your lane expecting you to stop for them. Sometimes for some pedestrians that could have fatal results. I am not going to let the motorist off the hook. Many of these motorist don't let the pedestrian cross the busy intersection when the light change to green. The motorists just make the right turns and hit the unexpected pedestrian who has the right a way in crossing while the light is green. Both are guilty of the high rate of pedestrian fatalities in metro Detroit.

[Towne Cluber]

I don't think you are of the authority to make that assessment. Both he and I have lived in NYC and we are telling you that you are incorrect. It is downright ridiculous to say that there are more people walking in the streets in Detroit than New York, per capita or raw numbers, and anyone who actually knows both places would know that. Who are you to tell us we're wrong? I doubt you have ever even been to New York.

Likewise, you have shown zero credibility on this matter. It is completely ludicrous for you to claim that a city with over 9 million people in it on any given day and one with some of the most traffic congestion in the world routinely has people walking in the middle of the street, in the right/left lane of the street, in the street at night with dark clothing, etc. What you are trying to claim [[for whatever reason) would be total chaos, complete anarchy--and simply isn't true. I doubt you have ever been outside of Downtown/Midtown Detroit, much less the rest of this city--not to even begin to mention New York.

[Honky Tonk]

Justifying anti-social and dangerous habits isn't really productive here, no amount of government intervention can improve safety if individuals exercise their free choice to act irresponsibly.

Let me tell my little story, if I may, then I'll be on my way. Last week I had some business to take care of in Midtown. I'm driving up Milwaukee, doing the speed limit, I've got the green light. As I'm driving, I'm watching this kid, young man if you will, @ the cross street, walking down the sidewalk, cell phone directly in front of his face, staring intently @ whatever is going on. My spider sense went hmmmmm, and I applied the brakes. Sure as shit, the guy walks off the curb, into traffic, totally oblivious to where he's @ or what's going on around him. I've encountered the similar scenarios with cyclists, being two lanes out, headphones on, weaving in and out of traffic. Runners and walkers, not so much. Government can't cure irresponsible, stupid behavior.

[iheartthed]

Likewise, you have shown zero credibility on this matter. It is completely ludicrous for you to claim that a city with over 9 million people in it on any given day and one with some of the most traffic congestion in the world routinely has people walking in the middle of the street, in the right/left lane of the street, in the street at night with dark clothing, etc. What you are trying to claim [[for whatever reason) would be total chaos, complete anarchy--and simply isn't true. I doubt you have ever been outside of Downtown/Midtown Detroit, much less the rest of this city--not to even begin to mention New York.

Just as I thought. You've never been to New York and are making claims on something you have never experienced.

You should get out of your cave more often. You might actually form an insightful opinion one day.

[Towne Cluber]

Just as I thought. You've never been to New York and are making claims on something you have never experienced.

You should get out of your cave more often. You might actually form an insightful opinion one day.

Gee imagine that...someone from the "everybody does it" and "it happens everywhere" crowd being dishonest about something! I'll put my NYC experience up against that of most people from Detroit/Michigan/the Midwest. More importantly, anyone, whether they've been to NYC [[or any other major city) or not can use their own common sense and adult reasoning ability to determine whether the negative aspects of Detroit are normal behavior. Funny how some people will encourage others to do something harmful that they would never do themselves nor want their loved ones to do. Hmmm, I wonder what kind of subconscious [[or maybe even conscious) motivations are at work there?

[iheartthed]

Gee imagine that...someone from the "everybody does it" and "it happens everywhere" crowd being dishonest about something! I'll put my NYC experience up against that of most people from Detroit/Michigan/the Midwest. More importantly, anyone, whether they've been to NYC [[or any other major city) or not can use their own common sense and adult reasoning ability to determine whether the negative aspects of Detroit are normal behavior. Funny how some people will encourage others to do something harmful that they would never do themselves nor want their loved ones to do. Hmmm, I wonder what kind of subconscious [[or maybe even conscious) motivations are at work there?

I don't want you to post anything but your vacation photos from New York, showing us all how obedient these New York pedestrians are that you claim to know so much about.

[Towne Cluber]

I don't want you to post anything but your vacation photos from New York, showing us all how obedient these New York pedestrians are that you claim to know so much about.

I'm already looking forward to your next claim that the amount of murders in New York is just like Detroit.

[Shai_Hulud]

Ehhh, people might be arguing different points here.

Having been to NY more than once, yes, there are way more people and lots do cross outside the crossing, run across when traffic slows, or occasionally just saunter across and dare you not to stop. But NY is also an order of magnitude more congested than Detroit and NY drivers are more aggressive and defensive because you have to be aggressive to get anywhere, but you also have to be prepared for a truck to stop, someone to dart out, a car to pull out of a space, a bike, two men moving a pane of glass...

However, I've never seen anyone in NY walk through the street as if they belonged there. As in not crossing, but spurning the sidewalk for the street as is done often in Detroit, in all weather, times of day and lighting conditions. You also have people crossing major thoroughfares with high speed limits like Gratiot and 8 Mile, slowly, outside the crossing, under the influence, at night, in dark clothes. Add to that drivers who are distracted, and used to encountering relatively few cars, let alone pedestrians, and yeah, we could quite possibly have a higher per capita pedestrian death rate than larger cities.

[Pat001]

A long time ago my mom gave me some good advice: "Always look both ways before crossing the street or you might get hit by a car."

[O3H]

Obviously it's an issue, and media outlets are publicizing the atrocity.
Being an engaged, attentive, focused driver goes a long way.
Hopefully this summer does not have a lot of carnage

[iheartthed]

Ehhh, people might be arguing different points here.

Having been to NY more than once, yes, there are way more people and lots do cross outside the crossing, run across when traffic slows, or occasionally just saunter across and dare you not to stop. But NY is also an order of magnitude more congested than Detroit and NY drivers are more aggressive and defensive because you have to be aggressive to get anywhere, but you also have to be prepared for a truck to stop, someone to dart out, a car to pull out of a space, a bike, two men moving a pane of glass...

However, I've never seen anyone in NY walk through the street as if they belonged there. As in not crossing, but spurning the sidewalk for the street as is done often in Detroit, in all weather, times of day and lighting conditions. You also have people crossing major thoroughfares with high speed limits like Gratiot and 8 Mile, slowly, outside the crossing, under the influence, at night, in dark clothes. Add to that drivers who are distracted, and used to encountering relatively few cars, let alone pedestrians, and yeah, we could quite possibly have a higher per capita pedestrian death rate than larger cities.

New York streets have never been the exclusive domain of cars. In New York, it is illegal to ride bikes and skateboards on sidewalks for more than one city block, whether there are bike lanes available or not. So, as a result, there are always people in the street. There are always bikers, skateboarders, scooter riders, and even people walking in New York streets.

People walking in the streets of Detroit, something which is being greatly overstated by some people in this thread, is not why Detroit has the highest pedestrian mortality rate in the country. The reason why Detroit has a high pedestrian fatality rate is because most of it is designed to allow the ease of driving at high rates of speed, and almost no thought is put into designing the streets to be safe for pedestrians.

[O3H]

Exactly - It isn't a priority to save life in Detroit.
no thought is put into designing the streets to be safe for pedestrians.

People in and around Detroit have become hardened to DEATH.
No biggie, yeah, yeah another person got hit, so what, move on.........

[Towne Cluber]

New York streets have never been the exclusive domain of cars. In New York, it is illegal to ride bikes and skateboards on sidewalks for more than one city block, whether there are bike lanes available or not. So, as a result, there are always people in the street. There are always bikers, skateboarders, scooter riders, and even people walking in New York streets.

People walking in the streets of Detroit, something which is being greatly overstated by some people in this thread, is not why Detroit has the highest pedestrian mortality rate in the country. The reason why Detroit has a high pedestrian fatality rate is because most of it is designed to allow the ease of driving at high rates of speed, and almost no thought is put into designing the streets to be safe for pedestrians.

Detroit has a high pedestrian [[as well as vehicular) accident/mortality rate due to a lethal combination of unlicensed/uninsured/impaired/reckless driving AND PEOPLE WALKING IN THE STREET. In fact, a couple of people on this thread are greatly downplaying the problem while greatly overstating the amount of people in the street in NYC in some kind of attempt to justify and normalize such detrimental behavior.

[p69rrh51]

It's about making an EFFORT to reduce the death toll.
By showing some amount of care, Detroit can begin to foster
"some" respect for pedestrians and cyclists

So those pedestrians who jaywalk, walk in the street when a sidewalk is available, and the cyclists who ride outside of marked routes among dozens of other violations. I spend way to much time avoiding these "law abiding" citizens on my routes around the city. Once and awhile I target these idiots just let them know they do not "own" the road. The looks and hand gestures are well worth the risk!

[iheartthed]

Detroit has a high pedestrian [[as well as vehicular) accident/mortality rate due to a lethal combination of unlicensed/uninsured/impaired/reckless driving AND PEOPLE WALKING IN THE STREET. In fact, a couple of people on this thread are greatly downplaying the problem while greatly overstating the amount of people in the street in NYC in some kind of attempt to justify and normalize such detrimental behavior.

I want to see vacation photos.

[Towne Cluber]

I want to see vacation photos.

I really hope that you're not one of those people that gets personal amusement from seeing pedestrians/drivers dodging each other in Detroit. Worse yet, I hope you're not someone that revels in it because they might not look like you.