Detroits population tipping point

[Stosh]

I've never really understood how anyone could justify the original exodus. No one can "take over" your neighborhood until someone else first decides to leave. "They" "took over" because "you" willfully decided to leave other's behind; and, "you" left because "you" could no longer fully and legally rig the game in your favor.

The original/first wave exodus was very much due to race and not wanting to share; I don't see how anyone could seriously and honestly argue, otherwise.

BTW, I'm surprised no one made note of my math showing that even if the loss were to double every decade from the 90's, Detroit will still make it out to about 810,000 for the end of this decade, and it's clear that while the loss has accelerated, it most certainly didn't double over the percentage loss of the 90's.

Let's run this down for you all. First off, it was the gangs of young thugs that came in and stole the bicycles from the children. Then came the muggings and home invasions, then it was the cars being stolen out from the garages and streets.
All this was in the 70's-80's. Yessir, power to the people all right.

Not wanting to share? What? Their personal possessions? Don't make me laugh. Power was the last thing on my or my parents mind. There was no power when Cavanaugh of Gribbs was there, it was the same with Coleman. What changed was the crime. And the police didn't give a rip, then or now.

[iheartthed]

[[and before anyone accuses me of racism, my wife is Mexican, and I really have no problem with the area, outside of the pollution

OH! Your wife is Mexican! Why didn't you tell us?! Excuse us for interrupting you. Go ahead and say every racist and classist thought that has ever crossed your mind.

[crawford]

[quote=iheartthed;61867]

[[and before anyone accuses me of racism, my wife is Mexican, and I really have no problem with the area, outside of the pollution{/quote]

OH! Your wife is Mexican! Why didn't you tell us?! Excuse us for interrupting you. Go ahead and say every racist and classist thought that has ever crossed your mind.

Please tell me what I have written that is racist. BTW, Mexicans are not a race, and nor are Latinos; they're an ethnicity, but that little point would get in the way of your agenda, wouldn't it?

As for classist, I am classist, and proud of it! I do discriminate against trash of any color and background and will continue to!

[iheartthed]

Please tell me what I have written that is racist. BTW, Mexicans are not a race, and nor are Latinos; they're an ethnicity, but that little point would get in the way of your agenda, wouldn't it?

As for classist, I am classist, and proud of it! I do discriminate against trash of any color and background and will continue to!

Oh you really schooled me! Armchair anthropologists for the win! Except... I never said that Mexicans or Latinos are a single race. I pointed out that you are making classist and racist statements.

But since you are so knowledgeable about anthropological definitions... Tell us, what is race?


BTW, you are the one who put up the disclaimer that you are not racist because your wife is Mexican.

[crawford]

Oh you really schooled me! Armchair anthropologists for the win! Except... I never said that Mexicans or Latinos are a single race. I pointed out that you are making classist and racist statements.

You specifically cited my comment on my Mexican wife as evidence of racism.

But since you are so knowledgeable about anthropological definitions... Tell us, what is race?

Race is obviously a human construct and is not rooted in biology.

That said, race in the U.S. is defined by the Census as one's self-identification, using the categories, black, white, Native American, Multi-Racial, or Other.

Hispanics/Latinos are regarded as an ethnicity, and can be of any race.

BTW, you are the one who put up the disclaimer that you are not racist because your wife is Mexican.

No, I put up the disclaimer that my wife is Mexican, because, in typical DYes fashion, I was sure that some people would get all defensive about me calling SW Detroit crappy, and start claiming I am ignorant and hate Mexicans, and how Vernor Highway was such a wonderful place to live.

[ziggyselbin]

Wow. Mirepub I take it you lve in Detroit. If so I am glad I don't. You exhibit the precise mind set that makes civilized people leave. Don't take this too hard but statements like "..Raised a punk"... are a huge cue.

Stosh laid it out about as concrete and matter of fact as possible. No one wants to live where they don't feel safe.

[R8RBOB]

Wow. Mirepub I take it you lve in Detroit. If so I am glad I don't. You exhibit the precise mind set that makes civilized people leave. Don't take this too hard but statements like "..Raised a punk"... are a huge cue.

Stosh laid it out about as concrete and matter of fact as possible. No one wants to live where they don't feel safe.

"You exhibit the precise mind set that makes civilized people leave." WOW, that is almost on par with "just because 'we white people' moved out? I don't buy it."

The remarks just have to be over the top. So, what are you saying, the ones who don't leave are animals? Have you ever thought that some people simply can't afford to leave. Not everyone can go get that ranch with the two-car garage in Clinton Township like those civilized folks.

[Bearinabox]

It never ceases to amaze me how quickly a thread like this can devolve into a tail-chasing, finger-pointing suckfest. Makes me wonder how this region is ever going to get its shit together when we can't even sustain a basic level of civilized discourse on the Internet. Get a brain, morans.

[Ocean2026]

The Detroit News study said it was the educated people who can get jobs who were moving.
One poster made the point that the rate of decline had declined over the past few decades but that trend should end because of the steeper decline of the Big Three.

There are way too many trends to buck and this will insure lower population. This isn't always a bad thing - driving around Buffalo, who's population peaked in 1946 and is now 270,000, is a pleasure no traffic and so many nice buildings to look at.

The trends:

People moving away from the colder climates.
Detroit crime affecting more and more people, especially as neighborhoods formerly thought of as safe - now showing some crime.
Loss of jobs
High taxes

There is a counter-trend. During recessions people tend to not move away from cities. Cities all over that were projected heavy losses have found their populations more stable. Unfortunately this wasn't enough to stop Detroit's losses.

[GRALR]

I think the city should abandon areas that no longer have houses or a few homes. De Annex those areas and return them to the county's jurisdiction. The sheriff would be the law, establish volunteer fire departments, or contract with the city for fire services. It would be like living in the country as so many of us do. If in the future the areas had some miraculous growth and wanted to incorporate or re annex that could be an option. If there was no city to terrorize its occupants maybe it would encourage more enterprise.

The thought of going to the city to wait months for their permission to do anything seems to be absurd. Paying 6% to Detroit for the privilege of being harassed, possibly victimized by crime, seeing a city in ruins, is insane. I would move there in a heartbeat for the great homes and what culture I still see, but also the high property taxes on top of the 6 % city tax is next to impossible to swallow. If times get worse they take your home! That is not feeling of being secure.

[ziggyselbin]

"You exhibit the precise mind set that makes civilized people leave." WOW, that is almost on par with "just because 'we white people' moved out? I don't buy it."

The remarks just have to be over the top. So, what are you saying, the ones who don't leave are animals? Have you ever thought that some people simply can't afford to leave. Not everyone can go get that ranch with the two-car garage in Clinton Township like those civilized folks.

You are seeing things that are not there. I stand by my post. No where did I mention the word animal. No where did I say anything about white people. No where did I say anything about the dreaded and scorned two car garage suburban home.

I think I was fairly clear. But I will say whether someone is financially poor should have little to do with civility.....unles you are agreeing with me and saying that those that do act civilized can't afford to move; for that I am sympathetic.

[stinkbug]

It really doesn't matter what color we are; it's nothing personal. My only point is that Detroit's population will continue to decline because people [[black and white) don't want to live in a city with so many social problems. If you believe that Macomb Township is less desirable a place to live than Detroit, perhaps you need to educate yourself on the population trends. Obviously, the block clubs, family reunions and church have not compensated for the gangs, broken families, and godlessness.

Your previous posts were all about race. You're full of shit.

[R8RBOB]

You are seeing things that are not there. I stand by my post. No where did I mention the word animal. No where did I say anything about white people. No where did I say anything about the dreaded and scorned two car garage suburban home.

I think I was fairly clear. But I will say whether someone is financially poor should have little to do with civility.....unles you are agreeing with me and saying that those that do act civilized can't afford to move; for that I am sympathetic.

Let me help you with your wording: "You exhibit the precise mind set that make people want to leave."

Had you said that, I would have agreed with your statement, but you wanted a slam dunk with your comment, so you inserted the word civilized.

You didn't need to say animal. I said for you because you spoke of those who were "civilized" to leave Detroit. I have no problem with people leaving Detroit. I left Detroit years ago only to return but I am not going to claim that the ones that are still here are civilized enough to leave.

[ziggyselbin]

I appreciate the offer of help. But I stand by what I said. I hope you do well in Detroit.

[casscorridor]

The Detroit News study said it was the educated people who can get jobs who were moving.
One poster made the point that the rate of decline had declined over the past few decades but that trend should end because of the steeper decline of the Big Three.

There are way too many trends to buck and this will insure lower population. This isn't always a bad thing - driving around Buffalo, who's population peaked in 1946 and is now 270,000, is a pleasure no traffic and so many nice buildings to look at.

The trends:

People moving away from the colder climates.
Detroit crime affecting more and more people, especially as neighborhoods formerly thought of as safe - now showing some crime.
Loss of jobs
High taxes

There is a counter-trend. During recessions people tend to not move away from cities. Cities all over that were projected heavy losses have found their populations more stable. Unfortunately this wasn't enough to stop Detroit's losses.

I wouldn't expect much more population loss. And the "trend" of people moving away from colder climtes will come to an end just as fast as it started. The reasons are two-fold. If the reason for moving away in the first place isn't climate, but rather seeking employment in southern cities that experience huge growth. It became a matter of moving where you work instead of working where you live. So I would assume that if jobs were to come back to northern cities, so would population. The second main reason, and perhaps a bigger reason, is climate... specifically climate change. Right now you think the warm climate in the south attracts people. Sure, that may be true now. But Michigan is perfectly situated in a moderate climate, surrounded by fresh water, and worst-case senarios for climate change leves michigan having one of the best climtes out there... the desert southwest has some of the lowest prospects, at least for sustaining huge populations. So I wouldn't expect much growth there.

[R8RBOB]

I appreciate the offer of help. But I stand by what I said. I hope you do well in Detroit.

Son, I don't need your hope, but I hope you do well in BizarroWorld.

[Retroit]

Why is it that those people who are most aware of the incivility in Detroit are also the biggest deniers? It doesn't take a racist white supremacist suburbanite to realize that Detroit is not civil.

[Disclaimer: When I refer to "Detroit", I am speaking about the collective city and not every single citizen. So please don't get all "Wee-Weed Up".]

[R8RBOB]

Why is it that those people who are most aware of the incivility in Detroit are also the biggest deniers? It doesn't take a racist white supremacist suburbanite to realize that Detroit is not civil.

[Disclaimer: When I refer to "Detroit", I am speaking about the collective city and not every single citizen. So please don't get all "Wee-Weed Up".]

collective: shared by all

Give it up bud, without the citizens there would be no city. So, if you are speaking of the collective city then you are refering to the citizens, all of them who are not civil.

[Crumbled_pavement]

It never ceases to amaze me how quickly a thread like this can devolve into a tail-chasing, finger-pointing suckfest. Makes me wonder how this region is ever going to get its shit together when we can't even sustain a basic level of civilized discourse on the Internet. Get a brain, morons.

I agree Secretary Box. Most of these posters couldn't be mechanics. They'd get a car with a bad alignment and worn brakes and wouldn't know what to do. They would have to spend their time campaigning on either blaming all the problems on the brakes, or all the problems on the wheel alignment. Finally, they'll conclude that fixing the alignment won't fix the brakes, and fixing the brakes won't fix the alignment. They'd probably just end up giving the car back to the customer saying it's unrepairable, like we do here with the metro area. After all, if one problem doesn't cause all the problems then it's not the problem. If one solution doesn't fix all the problems then it is not the solution. Metro Detroit rises, or should I say continues to fall ...

[ziggyselbin]

Son, I don't need your hope, but I hope you do well in BizarroWorld.

Ok. Perhaps you will get robbed and pistol whipped_ don't bother responding you can keep the perhaps I'll take back the hope

[Retroit]

collective: shared by all

collective: of or by all or many of the individuals in a group acting together

And, no, I will not give it up. I would like to hear the opinion of those who disagree with me. So far, I haven't heard from them. All I've heard from is Race Mongers who refuse to debate the issue and instead try to label me as a racist.

Now, if you or stinkbug would like to enlighten me on how living in Detroit [[incidentally, largely black) is better than living in the suburbs [[incidentally, largely white), I'd be most eager to hear it.

The topic of this thread was the population trends of Detroit. My contribution was that I thought the decline would continue because [many] black people who live in the city want to leave the lawless [mostly] black society that currently exists in Detroit. Can you debate that point, or are personal insults and semantic arguments the best you can do?

[R8RBOB]

Ok. Perhaps you will get robbed and pistol whipped_ don't bother responding you can keep the perhaps I'll take back the hope

C'mon dude, you are sounding a little spiteful. You want me to get to rob and pistol-whipped to prove your point we aren't nothing but a bunch of savages. C'mon and say it. Get it off your chest. We n------

[R8RBOB]

collective: of or by all or many of the individuals in a group acting together

And, no, I will not give it up. I would like to hear the opinion of those who disagree with me. So far, I haven't heard from them. All I've heard from is Race Mongers who refuse to debate the issue and instead try to label me as a racist.

Now, if you or stinkbug would like to enlighten me on how living in Detroit [[incidentally, largely black) is better than living in the suburbs [[incidentally, largely white), I'd be most eager to hear it.

The topic of this thread was the population trends of Detroit. My contribution was that I thought the decline would continue because [many] black people who live in the city want to leave the lawless [mostly] black society that currently exists in Detroit. Can you debate that point, or are personal insults and semantic arguments the best you can do?

Ah, you know I have not lob any personal insults towards you. As for arguments, there is nothing to argue about. Let me enlighten you.

I, for the record could care less where anyone wants to live. If you choose to live in a lily-white suburb surrounded by Whites because you are White, I have no problem with that. I do not consider that racist. What would be racist is if I wanted to move to that lily-white suburb and you and your neighbors made every attempt to keep me out. That would be the problem, if I wanted to move there.

I live in a Black neighborhood in Detroit that is pretty quiet. Other than the time I lived in California and other parts of Detroit, I have lived in this neighborhood for 27 years. Now we have had its share of crime but no more than other hood in the suburbs. For the record, I have never come across any dead bodies, I have never seen a shootout, no Devil's Night arsons, I have never been robbed or pistol-whipped and I never had my car stolen. I could be lucky or maybe I live in a area where the neighbors respect one another.

As for Blacks wanting to leave Detroit, I don't blame them. Bad city services, bad schools, crime, renters who have no vested interest in the community, etc.... I understand but those are residents in the worst of worst neighborhoods. I was lucky. I grew up in a great neighborhood. I had great neighbors.

[ziggyselbin]

C'mon dude, you are sounding a little spiteful. You want me to get to rob and pistol-whipped to prove your point we aren't nothing but a bunch of savages. C'mon and say it. Get it off your chest. We n------

You have me pegged so wrong, Never owned a gun am afraid of them

[Retroit]

Okay, R&RBOB, at least you are willing to concede that people are leaving Detroit for those reasons you mentioned. We can agree on that, which was the point I was initially trying to make. Sorry if it sounded like I was saying that every neighborhood and every person in Detroit is bad. I assumed it was understood we were speaking in generalities, you know like when you refer to a suburb as "lily-white".