Detroit Zoo looking to build downtown Aquarium

[davewindsor]

I guarantee that I've been in this city longer than you and with a nicer car. Funny how "my laziness" didn't stop me from being a D1 athlete in college or a military officer. It's also funny how it didn't stop me from walking 10-15 miles a day for a week in Manhattan last summer.

I can guarantee you that I don't care about how long you've been in this city, your rusty minivan or your inferiority complex. I fell out of my chair laughing that you feel the need to qualify yourself to me. It's pathetic.

I can't tell if you trying to pass off opening day/major concert parking pricing as a daily [[or even weekend) occurrence is more plain disingenuous or just outright dishonest.

A fact is a fact. I've already proved it to you and I've experienced these parking scams in downtown on the weekends numerous times. You can play your Monty Python sketch with someone else. You should run for politics for being so damn ignorant.

Likewise with you trying to pass off a three hour round-trip walk from Downtown to Belle Isle as something that the average person/family could/would do.

It's under one hour each way. I don't know why people are so damn lazy to walk these days or is it just you? Why is walking for two hours on a day off on a weekend such a problem for you? I like to drive with the windows down and I also like to walk. Enjoy the scenery and new developments. I don't have a problem with it. Get a bike then or drive your minivan if you're so fat and lazy. People have been doing this walk to Belle Isle from downtown for over a hundred years and you're complaining about it now?? Give me a break.

[401don]

It's under one hour each way. I don't know why people are so damn lazy to walk these days or is it just you? Why is walking for two hours on a day off on a weekend such a problem for you? I like to drive with the windows down and I also like to walk. Enjoy the scenery and new developments. I don't have a problem with it. Get a bike then or drive your minivan if you're so fat and lazy. People have been doing this walk to Belle Isle from downtown for over a hundred years and you're complaining about it now?? Give me a break.

Whether or not you're willing to walk is irrelevant. It's marketing 101 that the average consumer will not walk more than a couple of minutes so you need parking very close to your venue. If that's not true, why are there so many lots around the stadiums and arena when you can park a 10 minute walk away for half the price?

[davewindsor]

Whether or not you're willing to walk is irrelevant. It's marketing 101 that the average consumer will not walk more than a couple of minutes so you need parking very close to your venue. If that's not true, why are there so many lots around the stadiums and arena when you can park a 10 minute walk away for half the price?

Exactly, that's why an aquarium in downtown is a mistake--no free family parking. Plenty of free parking on Belle Isle.

[Zads07]

Exactly, that's why an aquarium in downtown is a mistake--no free family parking. Plenty of free parking on Belle Isle.

I must've missed that very real fact in the very real proposal that was just released. Can you point me in the right direction of that proposal davewindsor? I've heard that there are some great renderings in there.

Stop being so negative nancy about an attraction that will only bring more people to downtown Detroit.

[JonWylie]

Exactly, that's why an aquarium in downtown is a mistake--no free family parking. Plenty of free parking on Belle Isle.

In that sense why not just put it in the suburbs? Plenty of parking out there.
Why put anything downtown?

[davewindsor]

I must've missed that very real fact in the very real proposal that was just released. Can you point me in the right direction of that proposal davewindsor? I've heard that there are some great renderings in there.

Ya, how about the proposal that has cost taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars spanning over several decades of expropriating and clearing up the waterfront lands for public parks along the downtowns of both sides of the river? Go take a look at pictures of the waterfront lands from over a half a century ago of the concrete jungle blocking the view and now we should just change course??

We need more waterfront parks! Keep the waterfront lands clear of crap!

Stop being so negative nancy about an attraction that will only bring more people to downtown Detroit.

It won't attract more people because it's already at parking capacity with all the entertainment venues there now. The aquarium's been on Belle Isle for over a century and you can expand it if there's a real demand. If there's an issue with distance, then maybe there's a case for a public ferry from downtown the Belle Isle. But, keep the public parklands clear!

[davewindsor]

In that sense why not just put it in the suburbs? Plenty of parking out there.

1) There already is an aquarium in the suburbs at Great Lakes Crossing, so there's no need for a second one.

2) Great Lakes is popular because of the free parking, which is also why retail was devastated in the downtowns on both sides of the river and most retail moved to malls outside of downtown with free parking.

Why put anything downtown?

There's already enough entertainment venues in downtown. Downtowns were traditionally financial districts and that's what should be there IMO.

[Towne Cluber]

Davewindsor,

Nice to see that your personal character is as lacking and nonsensical as your insistence of pushing the idea of people parking downtown and walking 3 hours round-trip [[according to Google Maps, which has far more credibility than you--or will you claim that it's lazy too) to Belle Isle to go to an aquarium. On the other hand, they would still have to pay "$50 to park downtown", so what's the point?

[EGrant]

The "aquarium" at Great Lakes Crossing is a joke and a complete ripoff.

[davewindsor]

Davewindsor,

Nice to see that your personal character is as lacking and nonsensical as your insistence of pushing the idea of people parking downtown and walking 3 hours round-trip [[according to Google Maps, which has far more credibility than you--or will you claim that it's lazy too) to Belle Isle to go to an aquarium. On the other hand, they would still have to pay "$50 to park downtown", so what's the point?

Whether it takes me two hours or you three hours, who cares? Have you ever spent a day hiking with a group before? Get some exercise. It's not a big deal as a weekend family outing.

They only have to pay $50 if they park downtown to go to Belle Isle. If they park on Belle Isle, the parking is free. That's the point!

[Towne Cluber]

Whether it takes me two hours or you three hours, who cares? Have you ever spent a day hiking with a group before? Get some exercise. It's not a big deal as a weekend family outing.

They only have to pay $50 if they park downtown to go to Belle Isle. If they park on Belle Isle, the parking is free. That's the point!

Yes, my military experience provided plenty of "exercise" and "group hiking". For weekend fun, I've hiked everything from the Appalachian Trail to the Napali Coast [[one of the most dangerous trails in the country/world). Thank you for your concern about my health! Likewise, your ability to beat an average walking time by 33% is truly impressive! You must get a lot of exercise?!

Funny how I attended Opening Day [[Day 2) this year and parked for FREE at the casino and walked [[gasp). Also funny how I saw $5 and $10 parking [[Olympia lots by the way), but not $50 [[double gasp)! Talk about a deal and not a big deal at the same time!

Again, no one is going to park Downtown and then take a 3 hour round trip walk to attend a single venue on Belle Isle. Maybe you don't have anything else going on, but most people have lives and other things to do! Not to mention the elderly, small children, people with health problems, bad weather, etc. That's the real point!

[southen]

Yes, my military experience provided plenty of "exercise" and "group hiking". For weekend fun, I've hiked everything from the Appalachian Trail to the Napali Coast [[one of the most dangerous trails in the country/world). Thank you for your concern about my health! Likewise, your ability to beat an average walking time by 33% is truly impressive! You must get a lot of exercise?!

Funny how I attended Opening Day [[Day 2) this year and parked for FREE at the casino and walked [[gasp). Also funny how I saw $5 and $10 parking [[Olympia lots by the way), but not $50 [[double gasp)! Talk about a deal and not a big deal at the same time!

Again, no one is going to park Downtown and then take a 3 hour round trip walk to attend a single venue on Belle Isle. Maybe you don't have anything else going on, but most people have lives and other things to do! Not to mention the elderly, small children, people with health problems, bad weather, etc. That's the real point!

There is no place for common sense in this thread. Stop it.

[Gistok]

I agree Southen....

A 1 hour [[3 mile walk... each way) seems pretty absurd. We don't live in Florida so the weather sucks half the time.

As for why $50 parking rate keeps popping up into the discussion... seems illogical.

And also illogical is any argument about leaving the riverfront for the parks... and then building a new aquarium on Belle Isle.... another park. Isn't that kind of a circular argument?

I personally think that the best location for an aquarium is the site near the Dequindre Cut as was mentioned earlier in the thread... [[550ft. x 300 ft.)
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Wi...!4d-83.0277459

That's a nice size chunk of land more than twice the size of the Baltimore National Aquarium footprint... and is NORTH of the park areas. Would be a good choice. [[It's either that or more Orleans Landing type residential). And this is nowhere near any $50 parking spaces.

As to putting it onto Belle Isle... anyone who knows how to read a map can see that there is no way to build onto the existing Aquarium... there's no way to shoehorn a large building into such a small site....
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Be...!4d-82.9743495

You'd need a parcel nearly the size of the Conservatory Gardens to build on.

The Baltimore National Aquarium next to the waters edge [[about 150x400 ft. footprint) is a lot closer to the water than next to the Dequindre Cut would be.

As to funding sources... an aquarium would be educational... and Detroit has plenty of Foundations that are all about "educational". The new $1.2 billion dollar Ralph Wilson Foundation has to spend all of its' money within 20 years... and they failed miserably the first year when they gave away $70 million... and took in $71 million!! They have to spend all $1.2 billion in Detroit and Buffalo. Then there's the Hudson-Weber-Skillman Foundations... and Kresge... etc.

I hope I'm not confusing anyone here with logic?

[davewindsor]

Yes, my military experience provided plenty of "exercise" and "group hiking". For weekend fun, I've hiked everything from the Appalachian Trail to the Napali Coast [[one of the most dangerous trails in the country/world). Thank you for your concern about my health! Likewise, your ability to beat an average walking time by 33% is truly impressive! You must get a lot of exercise?!

If you enjoy these long hikes, why are you complaining about walking so much?

Funny how I attended Opening Day [[Day 2) this year and parked for FREE at the casino and walked [[gasp).

Sure, you can park at the casino for free. But, if you leave with your family and they don't see you going into the casino, you're going to get your car towed, as per warning signs posted at the entrance to the garage.

Again, no one is going to park Downtown and then take a 3 hour round trip walk to attend a single venue on Belle Isle.

Then park at Belle Isle.

[davewindsor]

There is no place for common sense in this thread. Stop it.

Bite me. ..

[ABetterDetroit]

A piece that includes Bernie Marcus’s gift to Atlanta and why he built the Georgia Aquarium. He has sound logic in his generosity.

http://www.philanthropyroundtable.or...ilding_america

[Towne Cluber]

If you enjoy these long hikes, why are you complaining about walking so much?


Sure, you can park at the casino for free. But, if you leave with your family and they don't see you going into the casino, you're going to get your car towed, as per warning signs posted at the entrance to the garage.


Then park at Belle Isle.

Davewindsor, you clearly have problems far beyond the scope of this thread and this site. It's clear that you don't have Detroit's best interest at heart. The bottom line is that you're wrong and that I'm better than you!

[davewindsor]

...
And also illogical is any argument about leaving the riverfront for the parks... and then building a new aquarium on Belle Isle.... another park. Isn't that kind of a circular argument?

No, because I'm talking about riverfront parkland. The center of Belle Isle is not riverfront. Got it?

As to putting it onto Belle Isle... anyone who knows how to read a map can see that there is no way to build onto the existing Aquarium... there's no way to shoehorn a large building into such a small site....
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Be...!4d-82.9743495

You'd need a parcel nearly the size of the Conservatory Gardens to build on.

What report says how big the Detroit aquarium is supposed to be? Is there that kind of space at the Ford Auditorium site with parking? If you can't build it directly to the east of the BIA, there's tonnes of space further east around Nashua Drive.

As to funding sources... an aquarium would be educational... and Detroit has plenty of Foundations that are all about "educational". The new $1.2 billion dollar Ralph Wilson Foundation has to spend all of its' money within 20 years... and they failed miserably the first year when they gave away $70 million... and took in $71 million!! They have to spend all $1.2 billion in Detroit and Buffalo. Then there's the Hudson-Weber-Skillman Foundations... and Kresge... etc.

Oh, keep dreaming. The BIA is educational. If there was that kind of funding available for aquariums, the BIA would have a much better selection of aquatic life like they historically had than it currently has.

I hope I'm not confusing anyone here with logic?

You don't even know what logic is.

[davewindsor]

Davewindsor, you clearly have problems far beyond the scope of this thread and this site. It's clear that you don't have Detroit's best interest at heart. The bottom line is that you're wrong and that I'm better than you!

Once again, you're 100% wrong. You never get anything right, do you?

[davewindsor]

A piece that includes Bernie Marcus’s gift to Atlanta and why he built the Georgia Aquarium. He has sound logic in his generosity.

http://www.philanthropyroundtable.or...ilding_america

Ok, so where's the philanthropist for this downtown Detroit aquarium?? They've been talking about it for decades and yet they want to government to pay for it.

[southen]

Take a deep breath, have a beer. I feel like I'm watching a mental breakdown in real time.

[Zads07]

This thread has turned into something it never should've become - a clown show. Getting back to the real topic instead of debating someone with a viewpoint that seems way off, I like the idea of the Rivertown site.

I said this earlier in the thread, but it really could become Detroit's version of Baltimore's Inner Harbor.

With the plans for renovation along the waterfront including the Stone Soap Building [[https://detroit.curbed.com/2017/10/4...-redevelopment) and Atwater Beach [[https://detroit.curbed.com/2017/7/18...er-beach-grant), this could be a really lively place in 5 years.

[Gistok]

Take a deep breath, have a beer. I feel like I'm watching a mental breakdown in real time.

He goes thru this same type of temper tantrum the 3 or 4 times a year he trolls here.

[davewindsor]

He goes thru this same type of temper tantrum the 3 or 4 times a year he trolls here.

I do it not for the sake of trolling, but because someone needs to make it known why it's such a bad idea to build it along the downtown riverfront. If you keep antagonizing me for it, I'll keep responding in kind.

[Jakewayj]

Yes, it is pretty central to a lot, but it doesn't mesh with my overall goal: a "science cultural center" which would eventually include a natural history museum, planetarium and a relocated, hands-on Michigan Science Center, in addition to the aquarium.

In response to some kind of "cultural Center" while they make sense in terms of people who want to experience multiple science and cultural experiences within ear shot, in terms of city planning these things are better spaced out.

For example while I understand the appeal of having all our sports stadiums in one central location, if say Comerica was built on the Old Tiger stadium site that would have retained or spurred development in Corktown, although it looks like that is all happening now it may have happened sooner? By spreading these things out like say an aquarium and a science museum you can improve multiple neighborhoods and create secondary businesses for people visiting those touristy sites. I think some kind of museum or cultural space in Corktown would be a great addition and bring daytime traffic to add to its nighttime seen.