Detroit Zoo looking to build downtown Aquarium

[davewindsor]

This thread has turned into something it never should've become - a clown show. Getting back to the real topic instead of debating someone with a viewpoint that seems way off, I like the idea of the Rivertown site.

I said this earlier in the thread, but it really could become Detroit's version of Baltimore's Inner Harbor.

With the plans for renovation along the waterfront including the Stone Soap Building [[https://detroit.curbed.com/2017/10/4...-redevelopment) and Atwater Beach [[https://detroit.curbed.com/2017/7/18...er-beach-grant), this could be a really lively place in 5 years.

Talk about a way off viewpoint. This thread is about a new aquarium and you're introducing two unrelated links--one about renovating dormant warehouses into housing and the other about a new greenway.

[EGrant]

What's the troll policy on this forum?

[Zads07]

Talk about a way off viewpoint. This thread is about a new aquarium and you're introducing two unrelated links--one about renovating dormant warehouses into housing and the other about a new greenway.

Incorrect davewindsor. I am stating I like the idea for an aquarium in rivertown-warehouse district and I am supporting my claim for that by introducing two other renovations in the area. This would make sense to put an aquarium here, and it fits your view of not on prime riverfront property, thus creating livelier neighborhood with attractions, residential units and retail.

[ABetterDetroit]

Baltimore and it’s Inner Harbor is another example of why I hope this idea gets more serous traction this time around. Another city that has had great success from their aquarium economically. Exactly why I hope we don’t just check the box but do something that stands out. These things work, plain and simple and they are wildly popular.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/business...115-story.html

[davewindsor]

Incorrect davewindsor. I am stating I like the idea for an aquarium in rivertown-warehouse district and I am supporting my claim for that by introducing two other renovations in the area. This would make sense to put an aquarium here, and it fits your view of not on prime riverfront property, thus creating livelier neighborhood with attractions, residential units and retail.

It does not make "sense" to put it there.

The official plan for that area from those articles is green space parks and converting dormant warehouses into housing and some retail. These two articles do not support your claim for adding a $200m aquarium there. It makes a lot more sense to group the new aquarium building with the existing aquarium as a theme park format to maximize tourism to the city.

[Zads07]

It does not make "sense" to put it there.

The official plan for that area from those articles is green space parks and converting dormant warehouses into housing and some retail. These two articles do not support your claim for adding a $200m aquarium there. It makes a lot more sense to group the new aquarium building with the existing aquarium as a theme park format to maximize tourism to the city.

I vehemently disagree with your idea to add an aquarium to Belle Isle. Based on your arguments, you want waterfront to be open and adding more parking and a larger building on Belle Isle would be disruptive to the island and the park there. You argument is nill.

Secondly, I do believe this supports my argument and you can disagree with that all you want, but I like it and I like what it would do.

[davewindsor]

I vehemently disagree with your idea to add an aquarium to Belle Isle. Based on your arguments, you want waterfront to be open and adding more parking and a larger building on Belle Isle would be disruptive to the island and the park there. You argument is nill.

Secondly, I do believe this supports my argument and you can disagree with that all you want, but I like it and I like what it would do.

Your argument is nill. The official plan for that area is that it is better suited for residential and green space and rightly so because it is so close to downtown and people who work in downtown need housing close to their work and they don't need all the extra traffic in the area an Aquarium would bring. Putting an Aquarium there is poor planning.

Belle Isle is a enormous 186 acre park, which is a tonne of space including two abandoned zoos on it. There's an incredible amount of space to build on and adding another building would be insignificant to the overall layout or capacity of the park. Continuing with nature centers like another aquarium is a perfect fit for the historical usage of the island.

Just like adding rows of residential housing to Belle Isle is a bad fit, adding an Aquarium to a newly designated residential area with open green space around the areas you mentioned would also be a bad fit.

[Towne Cluber]

Belle Isle is in fact nearly 1000 acres, not 186.

[Zads07]

Your argument is nill. The official plan for that area is that it is better suited for residential and green space and rightly so because it is so close to downtown and people who work in downtown need housing close to their work and they don't need all the extra traffic in the area an Aquarium would bring. Putting an Aquarium there is poor planning.

Belle Isle is a enormous 186 acre park, which is a tonne of space including two abandoned zoos on it. There's an incredible amount of space to build on and adding another building would be insignificant to the overall layout or capacity of the park. Continuing with nature centers like another aquarium is a perfect fit for the historical usage of the island.

Just like adding rows of residential housing to Belle Isle is a bad fit, adding an Aquarium to a newly designated residential area with open green space around the areas you mentioned would also be a bad fit.

Agree to disagree. It's clear we will not get along on this thread. I stick to my idea and you can stick to yours.

[bust]

I'm going to stick my neck out and say something unpopular here. I strongly dislike the way he has been saying it, but davewindsor has a point.

I'd love for Detroit to have a world-class aquarium, but is it what Detroit needs most?

Even if we set that question aside because we assume the money will come from private sources that would not contribute to Detroit for another purpose, where and how would a new aquarium serve Detroit best? I'm not convinced it belongs smack downtown. It's important to consider all options.

It's hard to get around it: a world-class aquarium is all but sure to be a megablock project. Much better than a stadium, but one that nonetheless dominates the local landscape with a single use and provides no street life when it is closed.

It's worth critical consideration whether an aquarium is the best fit for Hart Plaza. Perhaps it is not. I've voiced my opinion here already that Hart Plaza's biggest problem is that it is surrounded by an impassable river on one side, megablock projects on two others, and a virtually impassable avenue with far too much traffic on its fourth. Is a large single-use project the right fit?

It's worth critical consideration whether an aquarium is the best fit for the neighborhood East of the RenCen. That area has great prospects. But maybe more residential and a greater diversity of uses would be best. As I've said many times here, Detroit's downtown has way too many megablock projects already, enclosing it's core and limiting its vitality and growth. Is a large single-use project the right fit?

It's worth critical consideration whether an expanded aquarium is the best fit for Belle Isle. Maybe there is a way to expand or complement the existing aquarium there without compromising the quality of the park or the magnificent architecture of the original. Or maybe not. But it's worthy of thought. Belle Isle has few uses by design. And it already has an aquarium. Maybe expanding a use that already exists there is the right fit.

In any case, not just the location, but the design of the aquarium will heavily impact its results.

It would be great for Detroit to host a world-class educational institution and tourist attraction. I'm not saying it belongs on Belle Isle, or doesn't belong somewhere else. I'm suggesting it's important to keep an open mind as we think carefully about where and how it would fit best.

[401don]

Perhaps the folks who have an option on the JLA site don't come up with a viable plan and the city gets the land back. An aquarium would fill the site nicely, face the water, make use of the parking structure and fill in an otherwise undesirable location.

Edit: Apologies to Vitalis. I missed that it was already suggested in Post No. 13

[O3H]

Should it be freshwater ? We are the Great Lakes FRESHwater state !

[ABetterDetroit]

Should it be freshwater ? We are the Great Lakes FRESHwater state !

Absolutely it should have a large freshwater component.

'A Journey Through the Great Lakes' starts with a giant deep cold water tank, stocked with a hundred mature Lake Trout, schools of white fish, everything possible from the great lakes. Next the large river ecosystem with some sturgeon, channel cats etc.. Then ending with the tributaries, lakes and wetlands with minks and river otters and such for the kids.

Not having multiple freshwater ecosystems within the Detroit Aquarium would be negligent to our own biodiversity in Michigan's water ways.

It should be 2 aquariums under one roof because salt can not be mailed in just because freshwater has to be done right.

[Zads07]

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...ggan/34881141/

The aquarium will not be built on the Ford Auditorium site. Duggan pitches for a west or east riverfront idea, which makes logical sense.

[O3H]

I wonder if it will "represent" the Michigan environment
Perhaps they'll have aquatic animals as well, river otters maybe ?
https://youtu.be/PcI1Wynq--w

[southen]

I believe they just invested quite a bit of money into the river otter habitat that the Detroit Zoo currently has, but the more the better! If they were to use the location abutting the cut and Outdoor Adventure Center what better way to integrate the two than some exhibits that open up into the cut and tie into the educational goals of the center.

[Gistok]

Southen, I had forgotten all about that... but part of the Milliken State Park "along the water".... ...is being turned into a riparian lowland park... sort of a natural habitat for aquatic and reptilian/amphibian species. This would be a great tie in for an Aquarium nearby... sort of a real life "bridge" between water based life forms [[Aquarium), and those pertaining to a riparian [[of the riverbanks) existence!!

[southen]

I think we completely solved the problem Gistok. Honestly though, there do appear to be a lot of potential links between what we have in that area educationally with something like an aquarium.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I still think the Uniroyal site is best for multiple reasons.
1) Room for a grand aquarium [[or a modest one with room to grow)
2) Also room to locate other institutions of science and learning, such as a natural history museum, planetarium, hands-on kid's science museum, etc. Perhaps they could build a magnet school of science and technology.
3) There is ample room onsite for both parking and a transit center for DDOT buses, chartered & school buses, and a future light rail station.
4) It could be constructed as a park-like campus, fully integrated into the RiverWalk. Having a "Science Campus" would pull people towards the Eastern end of the RiverWalk.
5) Along with the other institutions there, the Dossin Great Lakes Museum could be relocated to the mainland, with room for both a land-based museum and dock space for associated vessels.

But I'll be happy with whatever, as long as the site is put to good use some way.

I really like the fact the zoo is looking to branch out and expand in SE Michigan. Operating the flagship zoo [[still one of my favorite places to spend a day), the Belle Isle nature center, the proposed aquarium, the proposed Macomb project... These are terrific things. I would love to see them open, in conjunction with MSU, an educational farm in the city, where kids can learn about agriculture, food production, etc. There are a lot of things city kids don't get to see and do much, and I'd love them to get the chance.

[stasu1213]

I hope that it could rival the Aquarium that is in Atlanta Georgia. It should be a state of the art aquarium with the fishes floating above you in the glass ceiling. I hope that it doesn't take too long in building it. Downtown was long over due for an Aquarium. That spot would be an excellent spot for it. A destination spot indeed

[ABetterDetroit]

I'm going to stick my neck out and say something unpopular here. I strongly dislike the way he has been saying it, but davewindsor has a point.

I'd love for Detroit to have a world-class aquarium, but is it what Detroit needs most?

Even if we set that question aside because we assume the money will come from private sources that would not contribute to Detroit for another purpose, where and how would a new aquarium serve Detroit best? I'm not convinced it belongs smack downtown. It's important to consider all options.

It's hard to get around it: a world-class aquarium is all but sure to be a megablock project. Much better than a stadium, but one that nonetheless dominates the local landscape with a single use and provides no street life when it is closed.

It's worth critical consideration whether an aquarium is the best fit for Hart Plaza. Perhaps it is not. I've voiced my opinion here already that Hart Plaza's biggest problem is that it is surrounded by an impassable river on one side, megablock projects on two others, and a virtually impassable avenue with far too much traffic on its fourth. Is a large single-use project the right fit?

It's worth critical consideration whether an aquarium is the best fit for the neighborhood East of the RenCen. That area has great prospects. But maybe more residential and a greater diversity of uses would be best. As I've said many times here, Detroit's downtown has way too many megablock projects already, enclosing it's core and limiting its vitality and growth. Is a large single-use project the right fit?

It's worth critical consideration whether an expanded aquarium is the best fit for Belle Isle. Maybe there is a way to expand or complement the existing aquarium there without compromising the quality of the park or the magnificent architecture of the original. Or maybe not. But it's worthy of thought. Belle Isle has few uses by design. And it already has an aquarium. Maybe expanding a use that already exists there is the right fit.

In any case, not just the location, but the design of the aquarium will heavily impact its results.

It would be great for Detroit to host a world-class educational institution and tourist attraction. I'm not saying it belongs on Belle Isle, or doesn't belong somewhere else. I'm suggesting it's important to keep an open mind as we think carefully about where and how it would fit best.

I would completely agree that all possible locations should be considered and properly vetted.

Having said that, I still would highly doubt that Belle Isle would stand up very well in that process due to it not having enough access to sufficient utilities at the volume that would be required to meet the needs of the wildlife and the number of visitors targeted. At least without even much higher costs tacked on to an already costly undertaking.

Next up, there is only one bridge to the island. Far from an ideal situation with, again, only a very costly and controversial solution to that problem.

I am standing by my opinion of either do this aquarium right or don't bother with building one. They are very successful when they have the numbers of visitors to financially support them on an annual basis.

The Georgia Aquarium has had several expansions since opening and currently is in another one as of writing this since opening in 2005.

It is also open 365 days a year so 'not open' is nowhere near the issue as with other venues.

https://www.georgiaaquarium.org/expe...-parking/hours

https://www.georgiaaquarium.org/expansion-2020

[davewindsor]

Having said that, I still would highly doubt that Belle Isle would stand up very well in that process due to it not having enough access to sufficient utilities at the volume that would be required to meet the needs of the wildlife and the number of visitors targeted. At least without even much higher costs tacked on to an already costly undertaking.

You don't have those issues with Belle Isle. You made it up. Cite me the article that states those are real issues.

Next up, there is only one bridge to the island. Far from an ideal situation with, again, only a very costly and controversial solution to that problem.

If that's an issue, then you can't hold the Grand Prix on Belle Isle because of all the traffic. That's not an issue.

I am standing by my opinion of either do this aquarium right or don't bother with building one. They are very successful when they have the numbers of visitors to financially support them on an annual basis.

Doing it right would be putting it on Belle Isle, but if the Mayor is going to support another location, that's fine since he's the Mayor.

The Georgia Aquarium has had several expansions since opening and currently is in another one as of writing this since opening in 2005.

Comparing Georgia to Detroit is like comparing apples to oranges. Detroit has different variables.

[archfan]

..
Comparing Georgia to Detroit is like comparing apples to oranges. Detroit has different variables.

Wouldn't it be apples to peaches?

[ABetterDetroit]

You don't have those issues with Belle Isle. You made it up. Cite me the article that states those are real issues.


If that's an issue, then you can't hold the Grand Prix on Belle Isle because of all the traffic. That's not an issue.



Doing it right would be putting it on Belle Isle, but if the Mayor is going to support another location, that's fine since he's the Mayor.


Comparing Georgia to Detroit is like comparing apples to oranges. Detroit has different variables.

The Belle Isle Grand Prix uses a abundance of large generators plus trailer bathrooms and porta potties.

With all due respect there is not any point in myself and you debating if the existing water, sewer, natural gas and electric lines on Belle Isle would support a brand new 9 figure aquarium.

Your it worked a "hundred years ago" parking walk from downtown Detroit to Belle Isle for women and small children makes your position clear.

100 year old way of doing things is what you prefer. I disagree completely. We will not find workable solutions in the middle.

[davewindsor]

The Belle Isle Grand Prix uses a abundance of large generators plus trailer bathrooms and porta potties.

With all due respect there is not any point in myself and you debating if the existing water, sewer, natural gas and electric lines on Belle Isle would support a brand new 9 figure aquarium.

What happened to all the services that connected the two abandoned Detroit Zoos on Belle Isle? They're not being used. If there's a demand for electric lines, DTE will install it at their expense as an investment. Natural gas same thing. I don't think this would put sewer and water at capacity. If not, they could run a purification system from the Detroit River. I highly doubt the island's current system couldn't handle it though.

Your it worked a "hundred years ago" parking walk from downtown Detroit to Belle Isle for women and small children makes your position clear.

Then offer a ferry service from downtown. Either publicly funded or contract out to private companies. Charge $10 a head. Downtown Toronto does the same thing with the Toronto Island Park.

100 year old way of doing things is what you prefer. I disagree completely. We will not find workable solutions in the middle.

I completely disagree with you too. A ferry service from downtown is not a 100 year way of doing it. Obviously, we're not going to find a workable solution in the middle.