Detroit Zoo looking to build downtown Aquarium

**Bigb23** · May-03-18, 08:03 AM

We don't need an over the top craft building, but something that fits into our renaissance. Maybe freshwater fish from around the world, that ties into the largest freshwater basin in the world. [[Fake News?)
And a entry fee that allows average citizens access. Great Lakes Crossing charges $35 to a Aquarium with the footprint of an old restaurant.
The riverfront is opening up, pick a place.

**ABetterDetroit** · May-03-18, 08:32 AM

Quality aquariums work and are fiscally sound when done intelligently. They bring big tourist money and good jobs with them. A rinky dink half assed one doesn't. Do it right or don't mess with it.

Use the Uniroyal site and actually compete nationally for change around here.

Our aquarium doesn't have to be the very biggest and very best but it must crack the top five to bring the serious money and pay for itself.

http://traveltips.usatoday.com/top-f...us-104653.html

**southen** · May-03-18, 08:40 AM

I don't know if I would want it all the way at Uniroyal, I think it needs to be within walking distance of downtown. There is a large empty parcel just east of the Outdoor Adventure Center that is right on the Dequindre Cut which strikes me as a good spot across from the harbor and connected to other areas of the greater downtown area.

I do like Hart Plaza as a location but I feel like it may be cramped or really hamper what can be done.

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · May-03-18, 09:03 AM

The advantages of the Uniroyal site are several. First, it has ample room for more than one building, if they wanted to do a planetarium or natural history museum or whatever. And room for parking and a transit center. It also would help to bring more people to that end of the RiverWalk. Lastly, it could help warrant a new light rail line down Jefferson; currently most of the "activity" areas along Jefferson are quite close to downtown; this would build out, encourage transit, and help create "fill in" projects between RenCen and Belle Isle.

**southen** · May-03-18, 09:28 AM

Given the Q-Line numbers I don't know if we are going to see light rail down jefferson anytime soon. I would love to see a natural history museum in Detroit but what are the odds of that actually happening?

**CrashDummy** · May-03-18, 02:00 PM

Personally, if given the choice between A or B, I would prefer an automotive museum or a music museum [[sorry, Motown only doesn't even come close to cutting it with a music culture as rich as ours) before an aquarium. But, this isn't one of those choices. An aquarium is a natural extension of the zoo, so that's what they should build. I don't think it should be considered in any relation to an observatory or natural history museum. That only muddies up the water for a project that should be considered on its own merits.

Really, I'm not much of a fan of aquariums, so Belle Isle aquarium is ideal for me. Go in, looks at some fish, and get out in an hour or less. Perfect.

**davewindsor** · May-03-18, 06:59 PM

What a waste of money!

So, you have two abandoned zoos on Belle Island and an Aquarium that is 2/3rds full and you want to building a second Aquarium at the Ford Auditorium Site so they compete against each other??

Why not use that money to restore one of the abandoned Belle Isle zoos and add on to the existing Belle Isle Aquarium if needed and set up a ferry service from Hart Plaza to Belle Isle if people are too lazy to walk??

Where are people supposed to park for this anyway? Lots of parking on Belle Isle... Do they expect people to spend $50 to park in one of those private downtown lots on the weekend? You certainly can't park at Greektown Casino and have your family walk through the casino to get there...

**ABetterDetroit** · May-03-18, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by southen

I don't know if I would want it all the way at Uniroyal, I think it needs to be within walking distance of downtown. There is a large empty parcel just east of the Outdoor Adventure Center that is right on the Dequindre Cut which strikes me as a good spot across from the harbor and connected to other areas of the greater downtown area.

I do like Hart Plaza as a location but I feel like it may be cramped or really hamper what can be done.

As I study your location idea on the maps the more I like it.

A lot could be done there using sky bridges over St. Aubin and or Dubois including a duel use parking facility for Chene Park and the Detroit Aquarium with some ground floor souvenirs/retail/restaurants...

The city does own several large parcels along Atwater between the DEGC and the P&DD eliminating private property acquisition.

**Honky Tonk** · May-03-18, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

What a waste of money!

So, you have two abandoned zoos on Belle Island and an Aquarium that is 2/3rds full and you want to building a second Aquarium at the Ford Auditorium Site so they compete against each other??

Why not use that money to restore one of the abandoned Belle Isle zoos and add on to the existing Belle Isle Aquarium if needed and set up a ferry service from Hart Plaza to Belle Isle if people are too lazy to walk??

Where are people supposed to park for this anyway? Lots of parking on Belle Isle... Do they expect people to spend $50 to park in one of those private downtown lots on the weekend? You certainly can't park at Greektown Casino and have your family walk through the casino to get there...

Thank You, +5...

**EGrant** · May-04-18, 06:11 AM

Didn't the people from the Belle Isle aquarium come out in support of the proposal?

And parking? Really? We sit here and bemoan all the lots and structures Mike Illitch owns, but now parking in downtown Detroit is a concern?

**DetroitSoldier** · May-04-18, 08:07 AM

I would like to see this as part of the West Riverfront Park development. If it was put on the East end of the park, nearest the current JLA people move station it would still be very accessible to downtown, and would be a great draw to the new park.

**Zads07** · May-04-18, 09:58 AM

I like the idea of Rivertown near the Outdoor Discovery Center. Plenty of land there to build on and could really start to bring the area back with more development and create Detroit's version of Baltimore's Inner Harbor with the other proposals and RFP's in place as well.

**Towne Cluber** · May-04-18, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

What a waste of money!

So, you have two abandoned zoos on Belle Island and an Aquarium that is 2/3rds full and you want to building a second Aquarium at the Ford Auditorium Site so they compete against each other??

Why not use that money to restore one of the abandoned Belle Isle zoos and add on to the existing Belle Isle Aquarium if needed and set up a ferry service from Hart Plaza to Belle Isle if people are too lazy to walk??

Where are people supposed to park for this anyway? Lots of parking on Belle Isle... Do they expect people to spend $50 to park in one of those private downtown lots on the weekend? You certainly can't park at Greektown Casino and have your family walk through the casino to get there...

Are people that are not willing to make a 3 hour round trip walk really lazy or are you being unrealistic? Likewise, there aren't any $50 lots downtown.

**davewindsor** · May-04-18, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Towne Cluber

Are people that are not willing to make a 3 hour round trip walk really lazy or are you being unrealistic?

Are you kidding me? People have been making the trek from downtown to the Belle Isle Aquarium for the past hundred years and you're complaining about it now? How is that unrealistic? You are lazy. Regardless, as I stated in my previous post, this could easily be resolved by a ferry from downtown Hart Plaza to Belle Isle. It would be no different than say the ferry from downtown Toronto to the Toronto Island Park.

Originally Posted by Towne Cluber

Likewise, there aren't any $50 lots downtown.

Are you new to this city? Do you own a car? Here's an article from WYXZ about $50 parking lot price gouging from only a month ago. https://www.wxyz.com/news/region/det...rs-opening-day

$50 parking lot price gouging is a reality in downtown. I remember going downtown the same day as the Jimmy Buffet concert at Comerica Park/tailgate party. I saw over a dozen parking lots with signs charging $50 a spot and asked over 50 people how much they paid for the lot for one day and they all said $50.

People are going to go the aquarium with their families on the weekend, not weekdays, and they're going to get gouged $50, and if they're lucky they're not going to get harassed by aggressive panhandlers.

**davewindsor** · May-04-18, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by EGrant

Didn't the people from the Belle Isle aquarium come out in support of the proposal?

Are you sure about that? It's run by volunteers and it's only open 3 days a week if that because of the lack of funds. And, it's free admission and free parking, donations accepted.
BTW-according to their website, when it was opened in 1904, the Belle Isle aquarium was the third largest aquarium in the world.

And you want to build a $125m aquarium in downtown? Who's going to pay for it? The Belle Isle Aquarium doesn't even have enough donations, and you want to suck those scarce donation dollars from Belle Isle for a new one? Great Lakes Crossing charges $35. You think people are going to pay that plus parking when the one on Belle Isle is free and more convenient because of the free parking?

Do you even care that there is an Aquarium in Detroit? How many times have you been to the one on Belle Isle??

Originally Posted by EGrant

And parking? Really? We sit here and bemoan all the lots and structures Mike Illitch owns, but now parking in downtown Detroit is a concern?

Yes, but you can't park at one of Illitch's parking lots for free unless you're willing to make the trek to the Motor City Casino. You don't seem to be getting that point.

**Rock N Rye** · May-04-18, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

Are you sure about that? It's run by volunteers and it's only open 3 days a week if that because of the lack of funds. And, it's free admission and free parking, donations accepted.
BTW-according to their website, when it was opened in 1904, the Belle Isle aquarium was the third largest aquarium in the world.

And you want to build a $125m aquarium in downtown? Who's going to pay for it? The Belle Isle Aquarium doesn't even have enough donations, and you want to suck those scarce donation dollars from Belle Isle for a new one? Great Lakes Crossing charges $35. You think people are going to pay that plus parking when the one on Belle Isle is free and more convenient because of the free parking?

Do you even care that there is an Aquarium in Detroit? How many times have you been to the one on Belle Isle??

Yes, but you can't park at one of Illitch's parking lots for free unless you're willing to make the trek to the Motor City Casino. You don't seem to be getting that point.

So the 1.5 mile walk from Motor City Casino is a trek, but you're lazy if you don't walk 4 miles from downtown to the aquarium on Belle Isle?

**davewindsor** · May-04-18, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by Rock N Rye

So the 1.5 mile walk from Motor City Casino is a trek, but you're lazy if you don't walk 4 miles from downtown to the aquarium on Belle Isle?

You've missed the point completely. The Aquarium is a family event. If you park your car at Motor City Casino without walking through the casino, your car will get towed. They have cameras everywhere. They'll know you didn't go through the casino. And, you can't take children through the casino because of the minimum age requirement. Thus, your $200 towing fee makes it not free.

If I didn't have to worry about getting my car towed, I would have no problem parking there for free and walking to downtown. It's a nice, scenic trek. I've walked from downtown to Belle Isle before too. And it's also a nice, scenic trek.

Just because I call something a "trek", doesn't mean I wouldn't do it. A lot of people lift heavy weights at the gym and complain after how sore they are, yet they keep doing it too.

**dtowncitylover** · May-04-18, 01:47 PM

If we're pissy [[and rightfully so) about the Grand Prix creating a concrete monstrosity and staying on the island for 3 months of the best time of the year, I can't imagine a destination museum like an aquarium going on the island. The Belle Isle Aquarium is cute, historic, and cozy but let's leave it at that. Anything larger would bring not only cars but also daily charter buses onto what's supposed to be a scenic and quiet island/state park.

**bust** · May-04-18, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

It's a nice, scenic trek. ...And it's also a nice, scenic trek.

I can't help but remember your infamous [[and hilarious) "Midtown Woodward is a cesspool" thread.

I'm not sure why you like Grand River and Jefferson so much better than Woodward. Maybe your opinion of the city has brightened overall since 2013.

**davewindsor** · May-04-18, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

If we're pissy [[and rightfully so) about the Grand Prix creating a concrete monstrosity and staying on the island for 3 months of the best time of the year, I can't imagine a destination museum like an aquarium going on the island. The Belle Isle Aquarium is cute, historic, and cozy but let's leave it at that. Anything larger would bring not only cars but also daily charter buses onto what's supposed to be a scenic and quiet island/state park.

How would the activity from the aquarium be any different than when they had an active zoo on the island for most of the past century?

The people complaining about the Grand Prix make up only a small minority--if it were a majority, it wouldn't be happening.

**davewindsor** · May-04-18, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by bust

...
I'm not sure why you like Grand River and Jefferson so much better than Woodward. .....

Because walking along Jefferson to Belle Isle is a lot cleaner. Less graffitti, less homeless people, less boarded up buildings and a lot more well taken care of buildings, free parking as you get closer to Belle Isle, never had an issue of not being allowed to use a bathroom along Jefferson unless I buy something, etc.

**EGrant** · May-04-18, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

Are you sure about that? It's run by volunteers and it's only open 3 days a week if that because of the lack of funds. And, it's free admission and free parking, donations accepted.
BTW-according to their website, when it was opened in 1904, the Belle Isle aquarium was the third largest aquarium in the world.

Yeah I'm pretty damn sure about it. The only concern is the need to collaborate, which is valid.

Belle Isle Aquarium officials said were not worried another aquarium would tempt visitors from their site.

“Its uniqueness simply cannot be replicated, and therefore will continue to thrive," said Michele Hodges, president of the Belle Isle Conservancy. "In fact, visitor numbers have only continued to increase since Sea Life opened.

"It also is free to visit, is small, and has a strong education component. No other facility can do what we do."

Hodges said one concern was the "need for cultural institutions to collaborate when figuring out funding scenarios and operational models that are sustainable.”

Source: https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...own/571372002/

**dtowncitylover** · May-04-18, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

How would the activity from the aquarium be any different than when they had an active zoo on the island for most of the past century?

The people complaining about the Grand Prix make up only a small minority--if it were a majority, it wouldn't be happening.

Because the zoo was small and nothing compared to the Detroit Zoo. It didn't attract the visitors the main zoo does. Hence why it closed. But it also wasn't historic and interesting like the BIA is.

No, money talks that's why the Grand Prix is still on the island. In fact, it's more about the fact organizers feel the need to make the island a concrete jungle for 3 prime months of the year than be forced to set up and tear down within two weeks before and after the event.

**Jason** · May-04-18, 04:41 PM

This isn't practical to do at all but it would be cool if the aquarium was built on top of the tunnel to canada, so that when you're at the toll plaza you could look up and see fish.

**davewindsor** · May-04-18, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by EGrant

Yeah I'm pretty damn sure about it. The only concern is the need to collaborate, which is valid.

Belle Isle Aquarium officials said were not worried another aquarium would tempt visitors from their site.

“Its uniqueness simply cannot be replicated, and therefore will continue to thrive," said Michele Hodges, president of the Belle Isle Conservancy. "In fact, visitor numbers have only continued to increase since Sea Life opened.

"It also is free to visit, is small, and has a strong education component. No other facility can do what we do."

Hodges said one concern was the "need for cultural institutions to collaborate when figuring out funding scenarios and operational models that are sustainable.”

Source: https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...own/571372002/

You saying "Didn't the people from the Belle Isle aquarium come out in support of the proposal? and the article saying,
"Belle Isle Aquarium officials said were not worried another aquarium would tempt visitors from their site.", is not the same thing.

Admission is free to the BIA, so it doesn't affect their funding model if they lose visitors. So saying they're not worried about a reduction of visitors is just stating a logical fact. Why would they be? BUT, some of the funding they do get could be diverted to the new Aquarium if it's built so close, which is why BIA officials would not say they support another Aquarium so close by like downtown.