Official: Sears at Twelve Oaks Mall is Closing?

**313WX** · April-11-18, 12:42 PM

Apparently, according to a CNBC article from earlier today, it's being auctioned off online...

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/11/sear...es-online.html

**ZenithCKLW** · April-11-18, 01:22 PM

Does that mean it's closing, or does it mean the building is being sold and Sears will lease their current space, keeping the store open?

**Zacha341** · April-11-18, 02:02 PM

Welcome to Detroityes.com ZCKLW!

Originally Posted by ZenithCKLW

Does that mean it's closing, or does it mean the building is being sold and Sears will lease their current space, keeping the store open?

**313WX** · April-11-18, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by ZenithCKLW

Does that mean it's closing, or does it mean the building is being sold and Sears will lease their current space, keeping the store open?

Per the article, it seems that's an option they're open to [[and would prefer).

**gencinjay** · April-11-18, 01:55 PM

Is it normal for big retail to own their store that is included in a mall setting? I always thought the mall owned the building and leased space to the retail.

**Richard** · April-11-18, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by gencinjay

Is it normal for big retail to own their store that is included in a mall setting? I always thought the mall owned the building and leased space to the retail.

They call them out parcels.

The ones for sale are all attached to the mall but as a seperate building not within the actual mall.

http://www.investorwords.com/13643/out_parcel.html

The guy that owns Sears separated the real estate part of Sears which had the value,into a seperate holding company.

He has been trying to keep it afloat and covering losses by selling assets,like craftsmen tools, in order to pay the bills.

Even if he bankrupted Sears now he would still hold the real estate and not lose money,sooner or later he will reach the point where he will stop propping it up and save the remaining assets so he does not take a loss.

**Hermod** · April-12-18, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by Richard

They call them out parcels.

The ones for sale are all attached to the mall but as a seperate building not within the actual mall.

http://www.investorwords.com/13643/out_parcel.html

The guy that owns Sears separated the real estate part of Sears which had the value,into a seperate holding company.

He has been trying to keep it afloat and covering losses by selling assets,like craftsmen tools, in order to pay the bills.

Even if he bankrupted Sears now he would still hold the real estate and not lose money,sooner or later he will reach the point where he will stop propping it up and save the remaining assets so he does not take a loss.

Well, "out parcel" generally describes the freestanding stores, restaurants, and banks around the perimeter of the mall parking lot while the term "anchor stores" is used for the large stores at the ends of the mall like Sears, JC Penney, and Macys. The most common arrangement is that the anchor stores are owned by their occupants while the smaller stores in the corridors connecting the anchors are owned by the mall and leased to the tenants.

**ZenithCKLW** · April-11-18, 03:40 PM

Thank you!

**Cincinnati_Kid** · April-11-18, 04:24 PM

Probably within the year, Sears and K-Mart will go belly up. Toys R Us is gone, Carson's is closing too. That was a nice store that sold quality goods. Too bad Amazon and other online options are the demise of brick and mortar stores. The Malls are scarcely populated now, except maybe during Holidays.

**Richard** · April-11-18, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

Probably within the year, Sears and K-Mart will go belly up. Toys R Us is gone, Carson's is closing too. That was a nice store that sold quality goods. Too bad Amazon and other online options are the demise of brick and mortar stores. The Malls are scarcely populated now, except maybe during Holidays.

I think the cycle is interesting though,Sears started out with a catalog that you looked at then ordered and it was delivered,the same system that forced its demise,that and over leverage.

I have tried several times to order from Kmart online with no success so that transition seems not very promising.

I think when the smoke clears it will be a few large online players selling junk expensive and some nich stores selling quality expensive.

**Scottathew** · April-12-18, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

Probably within the year, Sears and K-Mart will go belly up. Toys R Us is gone, Carson's is closing too. That was a nice store that sold quality goods. Too bad Amazon and other online options are the demise of brick and mortar stores. The Malls are scarcely populated now, except maybe during Holidays.

I think there's still a place for malls in America, but just far fewer. The same with golf courses.

I don't think of it as too sad because people are speaking with their money. As these malls go away their will be opportunities for development. I just hope we're able to capitalize on those opportunities.

**aj3647** · April-12-18, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

Probably within the year, Sears and K-Mart will go belly up. Toys R Us is gone, Carson's is closing too. That was a nice store that sold quality goods. Too bad Amazon and other online options are the demise of brick and mortar stores. The Malls are scarcely populated now, except maybe during Holidays.

It might be easy to blame Amazon, but it's not correct. To blame Amazon for the failure of Sears and K-Mart doesn't explain why Walmart and Target [[both brick and mortar) are performing so well.

For starters, K-Mart has been on a steep decline since they went bankrupt in 2002, LONG before anyone had ever heard of Amazon.

And for stores like Sears and Toys-R-Us, they are failing because they are poorly run and mismanaged companies. It's that simple.

http://money.cnn.com/2018/03/15/news...ame/index.html

It's true, online shopping didn't help matters, but the struggles of Toys "R" Us predate the boom in online shopping. Many of its wounds were self-inflicted.
The company's biggest problem: It was saddled with billions of dollars in debt. That debt stopped it from making the necessary investment in stores. And that meant an unpleasant shopping experience that doomed the chain.

Even Toys "R" Us CEO David Brandon conceded in an SEC filing last fall that the company had fallen behind competitors "on various fronts, including with regard to general upkeep and the condition of our stores."

Yeah, with the popularity of Amazon, that means retail is a crazy competitive market right now. So there's no more room for mediocre brick and mortar stores that are saddled with corporate debt and run by morons who make bad business decisions.

**iheartthed** · April-13-18, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by aj3647

It might be easy to blame Amazon, but it's not correct. To blame Amazon for the failure of Sears and K-Mart doesn't explain why Walmart and Target [[both brick and mortar) are performing so well.

For starters, K-Mart has been on a steep decline since they went bankrupt in 2002, LONG before anyone had ever heard of Amazon.

And for stores like Sears and Toys-R-Us, they are failing because they are poorly run and mismanaged companies. It's that simple.

http://money.cnn.com/2018/03/15/news...ame/index.html

Yeah, with the popularity of Amazon, that means retail is a crazy competitive market right now. So there's no more room for mediocre brick and mortar stores that are saddled with corporate debt and run by morons who make bad business decisions.

I think Walmart started the assault against K Mart and Amazon finished them off. Walmart is now freaking out about Amazon, which the company views as an existential threat to Walmart.

**aj3647** · April-13-18, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I think Walmart started the assault against K Mart and Amazon finished them off. Walmart is now freaking out about Amazon, which the company views as an existential threat to Walmart.

K-Mart failed in large part due to good old fashioned mismanagement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kmart#...ger_with_Sears

In a scandal similar to that involving Enron, Conaway and Schwartz were accused of misleading shareholders and other company officials about the company's financial crisis while making millions and allegedly spending the company's money on airplanes, houses, boats and other luxuries. At a conference for Kmart employees on January 22, Conaway accepted "full blame" for the financial disaster. As Kmart emerged from bankruptcy, Conaway was forced to step down, and was asked to pay back all the loans he had taken.

It all boils down to leadership. K-Mart had greedy and incompetent leaders who ran the company into the ground.

Meanwhile, Toys R Us's fate was sealed all the way back in 2005 when Bain Capital acquired them in a leveraged buyout, saddling them with billions in corporate debt. The past 13 years has simply been Toys R Us kicking the can down the road with enormous interest payments on their massive debt, until they finally ran out of road. They haven't turned a profit as a company since 2013.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-t...-idUSKCN1BV0FQ

**iheartthed** · April-11-18, 04:40 PM

Sears still exists?

The last time I went into one, about 3 or 4 years ago, it was a ghost town on a Saturday during Christmas shopping season.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · April-11-18, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Sears still exists?

The last time I went into one, about 3 or 4 years ago, it was a ghost town on a Saturday during Christmas shopping season.

The Sears on 7 Mile and Middlebelt, in what once was Livonia Mall, is barely hanging on. It's the only one I remotely know, that's still open.

**401don** · April-11-18, 07:33 PM

It's now been 3 months since the Canadian stores closed. There were 3 stores within about 6 miles of each other near where I live. All are empty with not even a rumor about replacements for the spaces. Now some of the stores leading to that empty hulk at the end of the mall aisle are closing.

**douglasm** · April-11-18, 08:56 PM

I wonder if the future of Sears is in the franchised "Hometown" stores. When the Sears out here closed, a Hometown store opened carrying appliances, tools and lawn and garden equipment, not unlike the old "Farm Stores" Sears used to have in smaller markets.

**JBMcB** · April-12-18, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by douglasm

I wonder if the future of Sears is in the franchised "Hometown" stores. When the Sears out here closed, a Hometown store opened carrying appliances, tools and lawn and garden equipment, not unlike the old "Farm Stores" Sears used to have in smaller markets.

Last time I drove by the Sears at Oakland mall, it had split into a Sears in one half, and an AtHome store in the other. There aren't many big-box stores that could move into those spaces, but they do exist.

I think what's killing these stores is:

1. Lack of differentiation - J.C. Penny's, Macy's, Sears, Carson's, all seem to carry the same clothing lines, with a few variations. From the inside they are practically indistinguishable

2. This makes them vulnerable to Kohl's, who discounts everything regularly and makes up for it in volume. You never see someone walk out of that store with one or two things, they have shopping bags full of stuff.

**O3H** · April-12-18, 01:40 AM

Although I was born and raised near the Oakland Mall area, I can't say I have bought anything from Sears in a very very long time. I will not miss them at all.

**Bham1982** · April-12-18, 07:12 AM

Sears is methodically selling off their assets from best-in-class downwards. In an odd way it's good news if they're selling your local Sears, because it means the site has some value [[which makes sense in this case as Twelve Oaks is the second most successful retail center in the state).

The real dreck will be there till the bitter end.

**Lowell** · April-12-18, 08:13 AM

Twelve Oaks is one of the few vibrant malls left and I suspect it may be one of Sears few remaining profitable stores. Were it to shutter the space would likely find a tenant or tenants quickly.

The Sears location that remains open, and boggles my mind as to why, is the Livonia store at Seven and Middlebelt. Its vast parking lot rarely has more than a sprinkling of cars, of which I wonder if they are employee vehicles parked to look like someone is there. The repair garage with its row of doors on the Middlebelt side have long been inactive much to the delight, I suspect, of the Belle Tires shop to the north.

As if that isn't enough, immediately to the west is a busy Walmart superstore.

**401don** · April-12-18, 09:44 AM

Remember when guys didn't mind going to the mall [[as long as there was no game on)? There were sporting goods, records, books, electronics, etc. Now it's just women's clothes & shoes.

**hybridy** · April-12-18, 09:50 AM

sears and carsons bankruptcies will be the death knell to all local malls save somerset and 12 oaks. I have never purchased apparel from sears, but I have furnished 3 kitchens with Kenmore appliances in the past 5 years. I have been very happy with the Kenmore products. iirc, amazon will sell Kenmore products, but I don't know if that's still the plan.