Falling Transit Ridership

[Scottathew]

You really don't understand what stress is do you? It's not always about sitting in traffic. It's also having a long commute in our sprawling region. It's about having to drive everywhere. The stress we put on our cars because we're addicted to them and know no other paradigm.

Bingo. Regardless of whether driving is stressful or not, it's wasted time for me. By shifting that to time in a bus I'm free to do more with my time.

By taking the bus I'm reclaiming 90 minutes each workday for other uses. I work about 218 days each year. That's 19,620 minutes saved each year, or almost two literal weeks of time.

[Bham1982]

I'm still confused about how time is not wasted if sitting in a bus seat instead of a car seat, and how 2x the time on a bus is "saving time" from the car, but to each his own I guess. Glad it works for you.

[313WX]

Even here in Atlanta, they're making significant progress on transit.

Gwinnett County will both vote on whether to join MARTA this fall.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.wsbtv...king/723689117

[[in all fairness, I do think it's Amazon HQ2 tipping the scale here)

[casscorridor]

I agree with the comments but would add.

A near requirement is that there is a very large employment center in the city, presumably downtown. Smaller cities won't have this.

As for Detroit over the years: Wasn't a lot of Detroit's employment spatially spread out over Detroit AND the region in automobile factories?

Didn't the Ford Rouge plant once have 30K workers?

We use a model like NYC where there are tremendous amount of employment, etc. condensed in a defined area [[Manhattan).

Not sure other than downtown that the model fits Detroit and I'm not sure that Downtown Detroit has enough employment, etc. to support say a light/heavy rail system. Rail systems require big numbers of riders to make sense.

There are a few major centers like Downtown, Troy, Southfield, Dearborn, the Airport and Ann Arbor. Detroit is somewhat of a multipolar city in this way, but there still is centralization around these poles.

It would be interesting to see some data on travel patterns in Metro Detroit. Where do people travel to and from every day? Could transit lines be built to follow these patterns?

There also needs to be long-term considerations. Yes, Detroit is a low-density region now. But in the future, this could change with proper planning. As homes begin to age, could certain suburban areas with lower quality housing be phased out? Could transport lines be built with higher density housing built alongside the stations?

What about population growth? As of now, there is little, but this could change due to immigration. Climate change and economic disaster will certainly mean more mass migrations. Detroit is strategically located in a low-impact zone in regards to climate change, which makes it a great place to settle.

[dtowncitylover]

Let's get this started. Who's with me? Also, we can consolidate DDOT, SMART, and the People Mover into one entity

Monday, May 7. That's the ballot deadline. Good luck!

And the RTA would already consolidate DDOT, SMART, PM, QLine, AAATA under the RTA banner.

[Junjie]

I'm still confused about how time is not wasted if sitting in a bus seat instead of a car seat, and how 2x the time on a bus is "saving time" from the car, but to each his own I guess. Glad it works for you.

Just take a bus during commute hours in pretty much any major city in the US and observe what proportion of people are doing something they could also do while driving. It's usually pretty low, at least here in Seattle. Most are on a phone, laptop, or reading a book.

[Bham1982]

Just take a bus during commute hours in pretty much any major city in the US and observe what proportion of people are doing something they could also do while driving. It's usually pretty low, at least here in Seattle. Most are on a phone, laptop, or reading a book.

I commuted for years by bus and don't ever recall folks on laptops or reading, given the constant bumpiness and noise. Phones, obviously yes.

You can be on a phone, laptop, or read a book in a car too, and its much faster. Even as driver you can be networked these days. Ridesharing and carpools generally allow for much faster commutes than any bus.

[oladub]

Despite hyped setbacks, in 10-20 years, self driving cars will revolutionize transportation. Type in your coordinates and time and a driverless car, truck, or van will show up in to drive you to your destination. There will still be a need for frequent public transit but only on the most heavily trafficked corridors. The need for second cars and garages will diminish.

[bust]

I commuted for years by bus and don't ever recall folks on laptops or reading, given the constant bumpiness and noise. Phones, obviously yes.

You can be on a phone, laptop, or read a book in a car too, and its much faster. Even as driver you can be networked these days. Ridesharing and carpools generally allow for much faster commutes than any bus.

I intend this in all its ways:
When was your last comfortable bus ride?

[iheartthed]

New York's ridership is declining due to new transit-alternatives coupled with a declining quality of service. Residents all over the city have more transit options, but particularly those who live in Manhattan and the near-Manhattan areas of Brooklyn. I believe I saw a study recently that residents of these conveniently located areas are the ones opting for alternative modes the most.

The city has put a lot of work into improving the bike lanes, and a lot of people have opted to bike to work during good weather instead of dealing with the subways. I live in Brooklyn but it takes roughly the same amount of time for me to bike to my office in Midtown Manhattan as it does to take the subway. [[I carry my work clothes in a bag and shower at my gym near my office.) What I do is more extreme than others, my one way trip is about 7 miles, but a lot of my friends and colleagues who live in Manhattan are within a couple miles and have similarly replaced subway trips with bike rides.

I doubt there is a decline in transit ridership of people who don't live in Manhattan or near-Manhattan areas of Brooklyn. Unfortunately, these tend to be the city's poorer residents, and they are stuck dealing with a system that has had an observable deterioration in service over the past year or so.

[coracle]

In my car I'm more "in control". I can go where I want to go, not where a bus takes me; I control who travels with me; I can go home at my convenience; I control where my car stops and starts; it shields me from the weather; I get wherever I'm going faster; it's my personal "escape" vehicle and I don't have to worry about any odd ball or criminal I might run into either on or immediately off the bus. I'm not dependent on somebody else for my personal safety. I'll opt for personal transport any day.

[oladub]

I intend this in all its ways:
When was your last comfortable bus ride?

Last summer on a VanGalder bus between O'Hare and Madison; clean, quiet cruising at 70, dark, very late at night, two seats to myself.

[Honky Tonk]

I intend this in all its ways:
When was your last comfortable bus ride?

2 years ago in Mexico. VERY comfortable. High back seats, a/c, tinted windows. In fact, it was the mode of transportation I used while I was there. I'm going to share a story with you. Besides the locals you have a lot of tourists. The bus drivers take the tourist route down the main road in town. One day, they were doing some road work and it was gridlock. The bus driver made a left, went 2 streets over, around, and to our destination. Had I been on Detroit's Blight Rail, we would have sat there while the damn thing just kept blowing it's horn. Sorry, I don't have a bunch of links to paste to my story.

[313WX]

Had I been on Detroit's Blight Rail, we would have sat there while the damn thing just kept blowing it's horn.

I'm more interested in hearing about this experience. Do you mind sharing?

[canuck]

Despite hyped setbacks, in 10-20 years, self driving cars will revolutionize transportation. Type in your coordinates and time and a driverless car, truck, or van will show up in to drive you to your destination. There will still be a need for frequent public transit but only on the most heavily trafficked corridors. The need for second cars and garages will diminish.

Yes but as for every evolutionary hurdle jumped, an alternate recession occurs. What happens when you don't use your garage? Will they not turn into meth labs?

[Bham1982]

I intend this in all its ways:
When was your last comfortable bus ride?

I don't think I ever had a bus ride that would enable me to be comfortably working on laptops or reading a book. That said, probably the best bus rides I've had have been with ETN [[long distance luxury carrier) in Latin America.

[bust]

I'm more interested in hearing about this experience. Do you mind sharing?

Give him time to try to think up a wisecrack.
He needs more time.

[Honky Tonk]

Give him time to try to think up a wisecrack.
He needs more time.

Why don't you cut and paste some links while you're waiting? Or maybe make an Easter card for Mom?

[canuck]

Why don't you cut and paste some links while you're waiting? Or maybe make an Easter card for Mom?

At least you're not taking your gloves off. This is very genteel sparring. Bravo!

[ABetterDetroit]

Who cares who personally likes or dislikes using public transit and why? It seems as pointless as debating a favorite color.

Is there a need for more public transportation in metro Detroit?

Is the plan for the transit properly implemented?

Does the transit have adequate funding for it to succeed?

Does the tax vehicle to raise the adequate funding cause the least amount of harm as possible to Michigan’s economy allowing it to be competitive with other states?

These questions are more interesting and debatable then ‘I like my car’ or ‘I like riding the bus’.

[Richard]

An interesting 56 minute watch.

https://m.youtube.com/results?q=take...20century&sm=1

[wolverine]

In my car I'm more "in control". I can go where I want to go, not where a bus takes me; I control who travels with me; I can go home at my convenience; I control where my car stops and starts; it shields me from the weather; I get wherever I'm going faster; it's my personal "escape" vehicle and I don't have to worry about any odd ball or criminal I might run into either on or immediately off the bus. I'm not dependent on somebody else for my personal safety. I'll opt for personal transport any day.

That’s totally understandable for someone that lives in a metro undeserved by transit. As someone who bikes, takes the subway and the bus all the time, I can’t imagine doing the same elsewhere. And yes, crowded buses and trains do have their issues so I’ll give you that.

In places of greater job centralization and residential density, your personal preference has less validity because it impacts others. Governments and businesses will charge you for that in the form of tolls, permits, and taxes. It’s kind of like the single occupied car that was honking at about two dozen pedestrians today crossing the street after the light change. “Look...there’s more of us so deal with it” was kind of the response to justify the jaywalking. That perception flips in places like Detroit vs places like Chicago and New York.

I used to love driving. There were days where I’d just drive all over Michigan with no particular destination and explore. You felt a ton of personal freedom. When I moved to Chicago, the car became a burden. It was nice for moving stuff, but paying insurance, gas, maintenance and parking became an unnecessary cost. I promised myself If I sold my car I’d blow all those savings on fun stuff. And I did. Floor seats to the bulls, glass seats at the Blackhawks, Cubs World Series tickets, international trips. It’s incredible the funds you reclaim. That’s the stuff you remember forever and the stuff worth spending money on because a good memory isn’t sitting in your car in traffic.

[ABetterDetroit]

That’s totally understandable for someone that lives in a metro undeserved by transit. As someone who bikes, takes the subway and the bus all the time, I can’t imagine doing the same elsewhere. And yes, crowded buses and trains do have their issues so I’ll give you that.

In places of greater job centralization and residential density, your personal preference has less validity because it impacts others. Governments and businesses will charge you for that in the form of tolls, permits, and taxes. It’s kind of like the single occupied car that was honking at about two dozen pedestrians today crossing the street after the light change. “Look...there’s more of us so deal with it” was kind of the response to justify the jaywalking. That perception flips in places like Detroit vs places like Chicago and New York.

I used to love driving. There were days where I’d just drive all over Michigan with no particular destination and explore. You felt a ton of personal freedom. When I moved to Chicago, the car became a burden. It was nice for moving stuff, but paying insurance, gas, maintenance and parking became an unnecessary cost. I promised myself If I sold my car I’d blow all those savings on fun stuff. And I did. Floor seats to the bulls, glass seats at the Blackhawks, Cubs World Series tickets, international trips. It’s incredible the funds you reclaim. That’s the stuff you remember forever and the stuff worth spending money on because a good memory isn’t sitting in your car in traffic.

I hear ya on all that blown savings. What a shame. Bulls, Blackhawks and Cubs, Yuck.

Wings, Tigers and Pistons would have been cool as hell. At least you have all the travel to fall back on...

[Bham1982]

When I moved to Chicago, the car became a burden.

LOL. Yeah, I'm sure the typical Chicago Bulls fan is taking the bus to their box seats. That's why the United Center is surrounded by a giant parking moat.

Like 70-75% of Chicago city residents own cars, so your views are pretty atypical. The % in the metro is obviously much higher.

And given that Chicago has fairly high poverty, the % of car-free by choice households is pretty low.

Chicago has "good transit" compared to Detroit. Compared to any other world city, it has laughably awful transit, with rickety wooden L platforms open to the elements, infrequent two-car trains running in the middle of freeways and the like. Fine if you're 23, but ridiculous if you're established with family.

The only U.S. city where a decent number of non-poor households willingly choose to go car-free is NYC. In every other city, car-free existence is for postcollegiate singles and the poor.

[wolverine]

Nice try, but I’m not latching on the Bham posts of exaggeration.