Chief Craig says arming teachers is a good idea...

[Wesley Mouch]

Agreed-especially when some teachers are stressed out enough, like this guy. ...
What you bring up is especially crucial if the teacher happens to be a full on hate-filled racist like this woman ... -oh, and yeah, she has very strong views on a variety of things, and opposing gun-control is one of them.

Chief Craig was open to the idea that armed teachers might discourage armed assaults on schools. AFAIK, no one is suggesting that ALL teachers must be armed. That does seem like a bad idea. But changing the ground rules on schools might be helpful. I think its clear that 'gun-free zone' signs have not helped so far. So new ideas are valuable.

May I also suggest that policy based on oddballs is bad. No, a 'stressed-out' teacher shouldn't be armed. Nor should they be teaching.

Priests, counsellors, students, teachers, parents, police, accountants, and high-wire trapeze artists all are sometimes stressed out. That doesn't mean we should take sharp pencils away from accountants. But maybe we should ground the stressed-out trapeze artist.

[Honky Tonk]

But maybe we should ground the stressed-out trapeze artist.

Agreed, we don't want him flying off the handle.


[[sorry)

[Honky Tonk]

Agreed-especially when some teachers are stressed out enough, like this guy. https://heavy.com/news/2018/02/jesse...l-teacher-gun/ I'm reminded of a teacher that taught one grade up from me in grade school, had a meltdown in class [[this actually happened to one of our religion teachers who we later had in High School), ran out of the room, went into a full rant in front of the Principal and vomited on his desk [[kids deliberately walked past the Principal's office just to catch confirming whiffs of the smell).

What you bring up is especially crucial if the teacher happens to be a full on hate-filled racist like this woman https://heavy.com/news/2018/03/dayan...orida-teacher/ -oh, and yeah, she has very strong views on a variety of things, and opposing gun-control is one of them.

Interesting. So, based on these 2 stories we should forget about it. What about the other thousands of teachers that come in every day, teach, do it for years, retire, and live out their lives? You're always going to have exceptions to the rule, no matter what. People abusing weapons, people abusing gasoline and fertilizer, people abusing Home Depot rental trucks, doctors abusing pre-teen patients. I don't have a solution, but you can't be afraid and ban everything because of one or two people.

[canuck]

Interesting. So, based on these 2 stories we should forget about it. What about the other thousands of teachers that come in every day, teach, do it for years, retire, and live out their lives? You're always going to have exceptions to the rule, no matter what. People abusing weapons, people abusing gasoline and fertilizer, people abusing Home Depot rental trucks, doctors abusing pre-teen patients. I don't have a solution, but you can't be afraid and ban everything because of one or two people.

Chuckles. The word afraid takes on a new meaning, or value.

[canuck]

Chief Craig was open to the idea that armed teachers might discourage armed assaults on schools. AFAIK, no one is suggesting that ALL teachers must be armed. That does seem like a bad idea. But changing the ground rules on schools might be helpful. I think its clear that 'gun-free zone' signs have not helped so far. So new ideas are valuable.

May I also suggest that policy based on oddballs is bad. No, a 'stressed-out' teacher shouldn't be armed. Nor should they be teaching.

Priests, counsellors, students, teachers, parents, police, accountants, and high-wire trapeze artists all are sometimes stressed out. That doesn't mean we should take sharp pencils away from accountants. But maybe we should ground the stressed-out trapeze artist.

If I were the NRA, I would want everybody to be armed; teachers and students alike, which I suspect is what they relish. Just in case a teacher is burning out from students stressing over his potentially overstressing, it follows that they need to self-defend. Now, I'm not saying every student should be armed, but there is a need for balance.

[Meddle]

If I were the NRA, I would want everybody to be armed;

You understand it's all about sales and money right? Once they get the kickbacks for everybody having one, they'll push for everybody to have two, then three, then ....

[canuck]

You understand it's all about sales and money right? Once they get the kickbacks for everybody having one, they'll push for everybody to have two, then three, then ....

Yes, absolutely. Then, we can expect a more peaceful outcome, it goes without saying.

[detroitsgwenivere]

All the shootings you've listed were one time occurrences @ various times and places. You can't possibly cover every school and their parking lots with DPD. The expense would be enormous. Besides, didn't you post you didn't want to live in a police state?

Yep, no police state for me as I'm not an effin gang banger and don't carry guns into schools. Neither are the vast majority of Detroit residents, so they don't deserve to live in a police state either. The same few high schools are listed over and over again, so unless you're looking at a different list, that's not random, that's concentrated gang infiltration. So saying that I would expect police to camp out at every school is ridiculous.

In Detroit's case [[as we don't have a history of mass shootings and Craig is the one talking to the press about armed teachers), if the cops were doin their job, we wouldn't be talking about arming our teachers, and good kids wouldn't feel the need to arm themselves just to get an education. Instead of police using their extremely limited resources to go after broken windows BS, voter approved marijuana, impound money etc. on the back end to help fund their budget shortfalls, they should be building community trust and going after violent criminals, one of the main reasons why parents don't want to bring their children and tax dollars to Detroit in the first place. It's not the only answer, and I know it's a leap...

In their defense, the DPD has been trying to do a better job at community policing as of late, and it's hard after decades of this.

These two officers found out the hard way, from back in 97:

https://www.mitchalbom.com/why-did-kenny-have-to-die/

[aj3647]

Chief Craig was open to the idea that armed teachers might discourage armed assaults on schools. AFAIK, no one is suggesting that ALL teachers must be armed. That does seem like a bad idea. But changing the ground rules on schools might be helpful. I think its clear that 'gun-free zone' signs have not helped so far. So new ideas are valuable.

Schools aren't targeted because they are "gun-free zones", they are almost always targeted by individuals who have connections to that school and gripes with some or all of the people there, hence the choice of target. Nor does the presence of armed personnel necessarily deter them since most mass shooters go into it expecting that they will die, either by their own hand or by the police, so death doesn't scare them. Also Stoneman Douglas had an armed police officer on campus and his presence didn't deter the shooter, anymore than the Columbine shooters were deterred by the presence of the armed Columbine school resource officer. A couple of teachers with Glocks isn't going to scare these people.

[Wesley Mouch]

Schools aren't targeted because they are "gun-free zones", they are almost always targeted by individuals who have connections to that school and gripes with some or all of the people there, hence the choice of target. Nor does the presence of armed personnel necessarily deter them since most mass shooters go into it expecting that they will die, either by their own hand or by the police, so death doesn't scare them. Also Stoneman Douglas had an armed police officer on campus and his presence didn't deter the shooter, anymore than the Columbine shooters were deterred by the presence of the armed Columbine school resource officer. A couple of teachers with Glocks isn't going to scare these people.

You might be right. I would agree that these sickos aren't consulting the library's copy of 'Gun-Free Zones' magazine.

You are suggesting, then, that schools are uniquely susceptible to 'grudge' attacks? What then is the right response. Is gun control the only problem we should be focusing on?

[iheartthed]

You might be right. I would agree that these sickos aren't consulting the library's copy of 'Gun-Free Zones' magazine.

You are suggesting, then, that schools are uniquely susceptible to 'grudge' attacks? What then is the right response. Is gun control the only problem we should be focusing on?

There was armed security at Parkland. It still happened.

[Shai_Hulud]

Schools aren't targeted because they are "gun-free zones", they are almost always targeted by individuals who have connections to that school and gripes with some or all of the people there, hence the choice of target. Nor does the presence of armed personnel necessarily deter them since most mass shooters go into it expecting that they will die, either by their own hand or by the police, so death doesn't scare them. Also Stoneman Douglas had an armed police officer on campus and his presence didn't deter the shooter, anymore than the Columbine shooters were deterred by the presence of the armed Columbine school resource officer. A couple of teachers with Glocks isn't going to scare these people.

One thousand times this.

Further, is the teacher who woke up hoping to catch up on test prep going to have a snowball's chance against the person who woke up ready to die?

[bust]

One thousand times this.

Further, is the teacher who woke up hoping to catch up on test prep going to have a snowball's chance against the person who woke up ready to die?

Of course your skepticism is correct.
But you're thinking things through.
The people pushing this idea know simple answers satisfy their base.

[aj3647]

You are suggesting, then, that schools are uniquely susceptible to 'grudge' attacks?

Yes.

What then is the right response. Is gun control the only problem we should be focusing on?

Here you go:

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018...chool-shooting

[Meddle]

You are suggesting, then, that schools are uniquely susceptible to 'grudge' attacks?

Not me. There have been a number of workplace incidents and business place incidents involving employees, former employees, upset customers, estranged spouses, etc.

ALL shootings, every single one are simple proof that guns are too easy to get.

[canuck]

But, but, but freedom from gun control is the only thing that stands between the people and a Socialist hell brought about by an aging gen x and y population backing a malevolent Colonel Sanders.

[aj3647]

Another armed teacher has accidentally fired a gun in a classroom, and this time a student was hurt:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/14/us/ca...gun/index.html

The teacher in this instance was also a reserve police officer and thus was legally allowed to carry a gun in the school. He pulled his "desk pop" when he was giving a public safety demonstration to the students. This is reminiscent of an incident from Bay City not too long ago where a police officer and a science teacher fired a bullet into an adjacent classroom while testing the trigger pull of the officer's weapon, a teacher was wounded in that incident.

If we arm tens of thousands of teachers who will have even less training than these men, then incidents like this will become more frequent. Just something to think about.

[Jimaz]

Michigan sheriff apologizes after leaving his gun in school bathroom