Chief Craig says arming teachers is a good idea...

[Bham1982]

But its also certain that gun control is not the answer too.

This country is insane sometimes. You really, honestly believe this? Gun control isn't the answer to reducing gun violence?

Look at Canada.

Yes, let's do so. Canada has like 1/10 the murder rate of the U.S. The safest American city is more dangerous than the most dangerous Canadian city.

[jackie5275]

Let's cut to the chase & get to the bottom line. I mean that literally & figuratively. In Detroit Public Schools, and many other districts, there is no money in the budget for basic supplies, basic maintenance & repair of the buildings, no money for many extracurriculars, etc. There is no money in the budget for training & arming teachers & staff with guns.

[ABetterDetroit]

It is a fantasy to think that police quality security will be delivered to schools across America for a nominal charge.

There is always a cost on one end or the other. The only question is who will pay for it and how much.

"Hey we don't have to pay those corrupt unions and people in Detroit real money for their high quality treated water. There is something a lot like water flowing right down the Flint River ready for the taking!"

What a money saving idea that was...

[3WC]

Bham1982: Do you have even the slightest clue? Your 12:15 p.m. post suggests you don't.

Did you not read the second sentence of my 11:02 a.m. post?

Did you really think my comment was a serious one? How on earth could you?

By the way, what's a "Russian bot red herring?" [[Be careful how you respond, if you do.)

[Meddle]

There is no money in the budget for training & arming teachers & staff with guns.

And I can see the Union wanting a 20% pay hike for those teachers for 'hazardous duty' pay.

[softailrider]

The idea that this is a desirable situation for the U.S., emulating an uber-militarized quasi-outlaw religious state that taxes citizens at some of the highest rates in the world, is pretty sad.

Obviously, there’s some unique circumstances that make Israel’s militarized state a necessity.

[archfan]

And I can see the Union wanting a 20% pay hike for those teachers for 'hazardous duty' pay.

You'd have to pay me more, if all of my co-workers were armed.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Hah. Talk to you local union rep about that one! I try to remember it is a volunteer option [[teachers carrying guns), but overall I find it problematic. Stronger security force yes. Teachers in masse carrying guns? No.

Bankole Thompson weighed in here.....

Bankole: Chief Craig dead wrong on arming teachers

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/op...ers/110956254/

[DeLemur]

Perhaps we should just outlaw all guns, regardless of the Constitution. After all, that's how we got rid of illegal drugs.

What a great way to enter a debate about arming the teachers of our society - completely trump up the action being taken. Classic NRA fear mongering around the slightest bit of sensible gun policy.

[Scottathew]

The Russian-funded National Rifle Association wants America to have more weapons. There is a reason for this.

[iheartthed]

I think its pretty well established that there is not much correlation between gun control laws and crime rates.

This isn't really true. There is an extremely strong correlation between gun control measures and murders. No one who has seriously looked at the numbers can deny it.

In 2013, American gun-related deaths included 21,175 suicides, 11,208 homicides and 505 deaths caused by an accidental discharge. That same year in Japan, a country with one-third America’s population, guns were involved in only 13 deaths.This means an American is about 300 times more likely to die by gun homicide or accident than a Japanese person. America’s gun ownership rate is 150 times as high as Japan’s. That gap between 150 and 300 shows that gun ownership statistics alone do not explain what makes America different.

The United States also has some of the weakest controls over who may buy a gun and what sorts of guns may be owned.

Switzerland has the second-highest gun ownership rate of any developed country, about half that of the United States. Its gun homicide rate in 2004 was 7.7 per million people — unusually high, in keeping with the relationship between gun ownership and murders, but still a fraction of the rate in the United States.

Swiss gun laws are more stringent, setting a higher bar for securing and keeping a license, for selling guns and for the types of guns that can be owned. Such laws reflect more than just tighter restrictions. They imply a different way of thinking about guns, as something that citizens must affirmatively earn the right to own.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/americas/mass-shootings-us-international.html

[iheartthed]

Maybe we look even closer to home? After all, an island nation that is a thousand of miles from anywhere with some of the world's strictest customs and border controls isn't exactly a mirror image of the U.S . Our neighbor to the South has gun control laws that are far more stringent than those in Australia. How's it working out for Mexico?

Actually, Mexico is more like the United States than either country is to Australia. The "right to bear arms" is also enshrined in Mexico's constitution. Only three countries in the world have enshrined such a provision as a basic rights: the United States, Mexico, and Guatemala.

Notably, all three of those countries have historically had serious issues with gun violence throughout their histories.

[aj3647]

Yes, let's do so. Canada has like 1/10 the murder rate of the U.S. The safest American city is more dangerous than the most dangerous Canadian city.

Do the pro-gunners not realize that "look at Canada" HURTS, not helps, their argument? Or are they so brainwashed by NRA propaganda and Fox News that they mistakenly think that Canada is some crime-ridden violent cesspool?

Their homicide rate and gun crime rate are one-third that of the United States.

[canuck]

Do the pro-gunners not realize that "look at Canada" HURTS, not helps, their argument? Or are they so brainwashed by NRA propaganda and Fox News that they mistakenly think that Canada is some crime-ridden violent cesspool?

Their homicide rate and gun crime rate are one-third that of the United States.

Yes, there are cities out west like Edmonton and Winnipeg that have pretty high murder stats, but Montreal and Toronto in particular have low rates, and in terms of murder by firearms, appreciably lower.


http://montrealgazette.com/news/loca...7-hits-new-low


Montreal has had three mass shootings in schools over the years. The Polytechnique de Montréal massacre where 14 women died, 14 people injured. The Dawson college multiple shootings with 19 injured and one female student killed. Both of these were perpetrated by young men who shot themselves and died. They both used semi-automatic carbines.

The other event in 1992 where a removed teacher walked into Concordia University's Sir George Williams campus and shot and killed 4 colleagues and injured another. He was armed with three handguns.

[Kevgoblu]

Even having the conversation about arming teachers is stupid.

We are looking to our legislators to come up with a solution to help keep our children safe. Well....maybe we should do what they do. Can you walk into the White House with a gun? Can you walk into the Capitol Bldg with a gun? Hell no. Why is it ok to bring guns around our children, but not around the people hawkishly supporting the 2nd Amendment?

[Meddle]

and shot and killed 4 colleagues and injured another. He was armed with three handguns.

That's a category that has been lost in the school discussion. Workplace shooting are almost unreported these days by the media, as are family cases, where one member wipes out the whole family.

[aj3647]

Why is it ok to bring guns around our children, but not around the people hawkishly supporting the 2nd Amendment?

Loaded guns are also prohibited on the floor of the Republican National Convention, and they've also been prohibited as past NRA conventions.

That's telling. What are they so afraid of? If good guys with guns make everyone safer, why won't the GOP allow people to carry loaded guns at their conventions?

[G-DDT]

Even having the conversation about arming teachers is stupid.

And it makes me proud to know a majority of folks on this thread see it that way and have all the bad excuses/arguments rounded off and cut off at the pass.

There are a few idiots here that keep BS-ing this narrative, but compared to other sites where the signal to noise ratio is not always good, I have to say thanks, DY, for being sensible in preserving that rare essence of solving any conflict without rushing to arms.

[Wesley Mouch]

Even having the conversation about arming teachers is stupid.
...

... and that kind of thinking is insulting. You may not agree, but its not an invalid idea. It has merits.

Personally, I don't think wholesale arming of every teacher is a wise move. But if you want to discourage school violence, you need to consider all options.

Should we develop lock-down mechanisms for schools, so a shooter knows he can be quarantined? Should doors be locked and supervised? Metal detectors? Limiting entrance/exits? Some weapons on-site with some skilled people? Co-locating police and schools? Gun control? Other ideas?

I would hope that rather than just discounting your opponents you would be open to new ideas, and not just stuck on how stupid others are.

Experimentation is good. Orthodoxy is bad.

[bust]

... and that kind of thinking is insulting. You may not agree, but its not an invalid idea. It has merits.

Personally, I don't think wholesale arming of every teacher is a wise move. But if you want to discourage school violence, you need to consider all options.

Should we develop lock-down mechanisms for schools, so a shooter knows he can be quarantined? Should doors be locked and supervised? Metal detectors? Limiting entrance/exits? Some weapons on-site with some skilled people? Co-locating police and schools? Gun control? Other ideas?

I would hope that rather than just discounting your opponents you would be open to new ideas, and not just stuck on how stupid others are.

Experimentation is good. Orthodoxy is bad.

Craig Farrand wrote what reads like a pre-emptive response to your comment in Downriver's News-Herald:

Once again, NRA propaganda deflects the gun debate
http://www.thenewsherald.com/opinion...a635b8ab6.html

"I like a spirited debate, but that’s not what NRA extremists are interested in. They’re only interested in preventing any talk whatsoever that challenges their orthodoxy.

Problem is that the NRA orthodoxy isn’t about gun rights; it’s about gun sales.

It’s about putting the sales of AR-15s and other weapons of war ahead of public safety.

About putting the sales of handguns to teachers ahead of sensible background checks.

Or once again rejecting the notion of halting the manufacture of weapons of war for general consumption.

Of course, if the NRA’s goal is to somehow create a faux national militia, as prescribed in the Second Amendment, then arming every American is the way to go.

But I’d much rather arm the people with reason, rationality, common sense — and the ability to translate those concepts into action.

But that’s not what the NRA wants — not when it runs out a nutcase at the Republicans’ annual lovefest called CPAC.

A venomous troll who blames everything and everyone else for yet another school massacre — except the ease at which the shooter was able to buy a weapon of war..."

There's a lot more. I encourage you to read the rest too.

[Meddle]

Should we develop lock-down mechanisms for schools, so a shooter knows he can be quarantined? Should doors be locked and supervised? Metal detectors? Limiting entrance/exits? Some weapons on-site with some skilled people? Co-locating police and schools? Gun control? Other ideas?

The bolded items were common in DPS in the early 70s.

[Zacha341]

And presently as well.

The bolded items were common in DPS in the early 70s.

[Wesley Mouch]

And presently as well.

So I gotta ask... and the rate of DPS assault weapon attacks is?

[Zacha341]

No mass assault-style shootings have occured from my understanding.

[Honky Tonk]

So I gotta ask... and the rate of DPS assault weapon attacks is?

"0" The reason being the attacker would be so horribly out-gunned, it would be a suicide mission.