English is now the offical language of Michigan....

[oladub]

Bham, I don't think your argument opposing Michigan saving money by declaring English the official government language is compelling. Calling American working people "deplorables", ranting about Trump while ignoring that he offered to double the number of dreamers who get to stay, denying economic facts, championing foreigners over Americans, ignoring that Democrats, in their own words, advocate open border policies for their future success, and topping it off by reviving Joe McCarthy memes [[see Pam's link); none of that is compelling. Congratulations though on knowing three languages.

[Richard]

The Russian bots are hard at work on this thread. Gotta rile up the most ignorant, fact-averse Americans.

If you think that it was the Russian language that I posted then you have bigger problems.

I posted in foreign language to show the reason for a common language,readers and posters on this site post in a common language.

So I guess that makes everybody here anti immigration,racist,homophobic,and deplorables.

On behalf of the currant president and the rest of your fellow deplorables welcome to MAGA,glad to have you onboard.

Your last comment is typical of the so called best and brightest,they have the attitude of Americans are so stupid and that is why they are here,I can almost pinpoint your origin, based on your comments and attitude alone.

Do not let it fool you,it had nothing to do with best and brightest and everything to do with cheap labor and corporate greed,you were just a tool.

[Richard]

Je voudrais habiter dans un nation ouvert, multiculturel, et plein de vie avec anglais comme une langue commune mais toutes les langues qui comprise les groupes immigres parle par eux, si ils souhaitent. Je ne suis pas peur des langues different ni peur des mes impots etre utilitse pour des documents dans langues important pour les immigrants. Peux-tu lire mon francais mal? Non? Je m'en fous!

Comme je lis cet anti-bi ou multilinguisme, c'est plutot stupefiante.

Ce n'est pas parce que l'on sent qu'une langue commune est un standard qu'elle ne fait rien contre elle, va travailler demain et ne parle que le français et voit comment cela fonctionne.

[dtowncitylover]

Ce n'est pas parce que l'on sent qu'une langue commune est un standard qu'elle ne fait rien contre elle, va travailler demain et ne parle que le français et voit comment cela fonctionne.

L'argument entier serait correct s'il n'etait pas deja faux. Les immigrants apprennent l'anglais. Ils savent qu'ils ont besoin d'apprendre l'anglais. Ce projet de loi n'a rien de substantiel, mais pour flatter a la base de la droite mais qui pense que les immigrants viennent dans notre pays, prennent leur emploi, gagnent un million de dollars et n'apprennent jamais l'anglais. C'est de la pure propagande.

La langue de ce forum internet est l'anglais car c'est la langue de la majorite. Mais Lowell ne va pas supprimer mon post parce que c'est en français. Quand on rends quelque chose "officiel" il peut signifier qu'il est supérieur et que c'est une pente glissante qui impose des lois anti-langues. Vous perdez beaucoup lorsque l'uniformité est decretee et l'individualité sont interdites.

L'anglais n'est pas menace, donc pourquoi maintenant avec cet projet de loi?

[Bham1982]

If you think that it was the Russian language that I posted then you have bigger problems.

Oh, dear. The irony is thick here.

[Bham1982]

Bham, I don't think your argument opposing Michigan saving money by declaring English the official government language is compelling. Calling American working people "deplorables", ranting about Trump while ignoring that he offered to double the number of dreamers who get to stay, denying economic facts, championing foreigners over Americans, ignoring that Democrats, in their own words, advocate open border policies for their future success, and topping it off by reviving Joe McCarthy memes [[see Pam's link); none of that is compelling. Congratulations though on knowing three languages.

This entire post is fabricated nonsense. Every single sentence is either stupefying misunderstanding of basic English, or made-up Russian bot idiocy.

[Richard]

L'argument entier serait correct s'il n'etait pas deja faux. Les immigrants apprennent l'anglais. Ils savent qu'ils ont besoin d'apprendre l'anglais. Ce projet de loi n'a rien de substantiel, mais pour flatter a la base de la droite mais qui pense que les immigrants viennent dans notre pays, prennent leur emploi, gagnent un million de dollars et n'apprennent jamais l'anglais. C'est de la pure propagande.

La langue de ce forum internet est l'anglais car c'est la langue de la majorite. Mais Lowell ne va pas supprimer mon post parce que c'est en français. Quand on rends quelque chose "officiel" il peut signifier qu'il est supérieur et que c'est une pente glissante qui impose des lois anti-langues. Vous perdez beaucoup lorsque l'uniformité est decretee et l'individualité sont interdites.

L'anglais n'est pas menace, donc pourquoi maintenant avec cet projet de loi?

It is being proactive in Michigans case,people are reading way to much into it.

I live in a city that has an immigration base that pretty much covers every corner of the earth.

We can break it down to simply useing an example of the Spanish language,sounds simple enough,but Cubans,Columbia,Argentina,Venezuela,Chile,Panama etc.

That just names a few and you could say they all speak Spanish,they do but every single country that speaks Spanish has a different dielect,some countries have more then one.

You can take a Venezuelan and sit them down with a Cuban and figure that they both speak Spanish so they can have a conversation,they cannot or find it hard to understand each other.

So to extend it further if there are 25 different variations of the Spanish language alone,that is 25 different types of forms that need to be addressed.

A step further,25 different variations of the language on a drivers license,can you imagine being a cop pulling somebody over? He or she would have to learn 25 different variations of the Spanish language alone just to read the drivers lincense.

Can you imagine public transportation,a train announces the next stop in 25 different versions of Spanish alone? You would be 6 stops ahead before they finished announcing the first one.

That is what this is about,it has nothing to do with being superior or downgrading immigrants,it is doing exactly what it says it is doing,determine a common language.

Quick when you think of Germany what is the first language you think about?


Versuchen Sie, mit der deutschen Regierung Geschäfte zu machen, während Sie Englisch sprechen


Poland,Spain,Russia,Holland,Mexico,France and on and on every single country has a common language that the government operates on. Correct or not?

Ever notice their street signs? What language are they in?

The backer of bill also said by not learning the common language of English,The immigrant is lowering their earning potential.

That is a fact,As an example A Cuban employer will exploit that when hiring a Spanish speaking only employee,Spanish or not I see it every day.

In the trades,a Cuban non English speaking employee will be paid $8 per hour,the same job for a bilingual employee will be $15 per hour working for the English speaking employer,every immigrant business owner that employs a fellow immigrant country man will exploit them based strictly on the fact that because they do not speak the common language or English,they know they have no other choice and their employment options are limited.


That is why you see most immigrants in the service industry,out of site out of mind,they are not stupid,a lot of them were doctors,lawyers,professionals with an education,cleaning hotel rooms.

Like I posted before though,as an American you can find free classes to learn Spanish or pretty much any other language.

Try and find one free class that teaches English,you will not find one around me anyways.

Did you know that the one thing that buys you residency in any other country in the world,teaching the English language,because everyone else in the world wants to learn English.

Unless they move to America then they expect everybody else to change the common language to suit their needs.

[oladub]

This entire post is fabricated nonsense. Every single sentence is either stupefying misunderstanding of basic English, or made-up Russian bot idiocy.

Then try another. This is the link I meant to post from Rolling Stone. Pure McCarthyism masquerading as progessivism has more support than back in Joe's time. Imagine parrots saying "Russian bot, Russian bot, Russian bot". "One of the first rules of a shunning campaign is that it doesn't have to make sense. It just has to be what everyone's saying.""Nearly two years into the #Russiagate scandal, accusing people of being in league with Putin has become an almost daily feature of news coverage." "Russian bot"

The New Blacklist
Russiagate may have been aimed at Trump to start, but it's become a way of targeting all dissent

One irony, getting back on topic, is that many of the parrots saying "Russian bot" are fine with opening the gates and creating babel at the expense of most Americans. 13 Russians doing something suspicious is reason #456 that Hillary lost but 11-35m illegal non-citizens taking jobs, driving down pay, emptying public coffers and the parrots say we should repeat everything in their language too. "Russian bot"...

[Bham1982]

It is being proactive in Michigans case,people are reading way to much into it.

That's kinda the point. It's idiotic because it's a racist, backward, economically harmful idea. Proactively chasing educated, entrepreneurial people out of Michigan in order to appease bigots.

I live in a city that has an immigration base that pretty much covers every corner of the earth.

And, assuming you live in the U.S., you live in an English-dominant city, essentially destroying your underlying argument. We are one of the rare countries where almost everything is officially in a single language.

The idea that English is under threat is madness; it's other languages that are under threat by English, which has become the global language and is steadily eliminating linguistic diversity.

[Bham1982]

Then try another. This is the link I meant to post from Rolling Stone. Pure McCarthyism masquerading as progessivism has more support than back in Joe's time. Imagine parrots saying "Russian bot, Russian bot, Russian bot". "One of the first rules of a shunning campaign is that it doesn't have to make sense. It just has to be what everyone's saying.""Nearly two years into the #Russiagate scandal, accusing people of being in league with Putin has become an almost daily feature of news coverage." "Russian bot"

The New Blacklist
Russiagate may have been aimed at Trump to start, but it's become a way of targeting all dissent

One irony, getting back on topic, is that many of the parrots saying "Russian bot" are fine with opening the gates and creating babel at the expense of most Americans. 13 Russians doing something suspicious is reason #456 that Hillary lost but 11-35m illegal non-citizens taking jobs, driving down pay, emptying public coffers and the parrots say we should repeat everything in their language too. "Russian bot"...

If you aren't a Russian bot, I give you credit for faithfully repeating Russian troll farm lies, word for word. I guess ignorance is bliss?

When your Dear Leader is imprisoned, what will be left? Will you still be parroting "But Hillary"! "Fakenews!" "Liberal Media!" and the like, or will it be a new compulsion? Will Trump still be deified from federal prison?

[Richard]

Oh, dear. The irony is thick here.

and you could build a fleet with yours.

But I understand,they sold you a bill of goods telling you that you were special and you were needed to help all of the dumb Americans out,then you realized that you were just as dumb or smart as the rest of us,that has to have a physiological downside to it.Nobody likes to be used.

Life is to short,just come to grips with it and move on,there is really no need for all of that stress.

[Wesley Mouch]

That's kinda the point. It's idiotic because it's a racist, backward, economically harmful idea. Proactively chasing educated, entrepreneurial people out of Michigan in order to appease bigots.

How on earth does a simple law codifying the status quo 'chase' people out [[he said pouring fuel on the fire)?

And, assuming you live in the U.S., you live in an English-dominant city, essentially destroying your underlying argument. We are one of the rare countries where almost everything is officially in a single language.

Are you saying English is already official? I think you may not share the same idea I have on 'official'

The idea that English is under threat is madness; it's other languages that are under threat by English, which has become the global language and is steadily eliminating linguistic diversity.

I don't think English is 'under threat'. Making a language 'official' simply makes sure that official acts such as traffic tickets, laws, and official documents need only be provided in English -- and so avoids ambiguity.

And as a parting comment, not that "English" cannot 'eliminate' linguistic diversity. Only people can do that.

[Bham1982]

How on earth does a simple law codifying the status quo 'chase' people out [[he said pouring fuel on the fire)?

Because it's clearly intended to tell immigrants and educated people that they aren't wanted in Michigan, and that linguistic diversity is viewed as a threat rather than an asset.

Are you saying English is already official? I think you may not share the same idea I have on 'official'

The U.S. obviously has no official national language. But there are few first world countries that are as officially monolingual as the U.S. If you go to Miami [[the most Spanish speaking place in the U.S.) everything is in English. The street signs, transit messages, school board meetings, etc. all in English.

If you go to, say Germany, all transit has English announcements too [[and many have French or Dutch), govt. websites all have English translations, street signs can have French, Dutch or other languages depending on location, etc. If you go to France, Mexico, Japan, the same is generally true. The U.S. is basically all-English.

I don't think English is 'under threat'. Making a language 'official' simply makes sure that official acts such as traffic tickets, laws, and official documents need only be provided in English -- and so avoids ambiguity.

There's no ambiguity, right now. There's no expectation that a State Trooper in Kalkaska is gonna give you a speeding ticket in Swahili or Slovak instead of English.

And that isn't the intent. We all know the intent.

[Richard]

Because it's clearly intended to tell immigrants and educated people that they aren't wanted in Michigan, and that linguistic diversity is viewed as a threat rather than an asset.



The U.S. obviously has no official national language. But there are few first world countries that are as officially monolingual as the U.S. If you go to Miami [[the most Spanish speaking place in the U.S.) everything is in English. The street signs, transit messages, school board meetings, etc. all in English.

If you go to, say Germany, all transit has English announcements too [[and many have French or Dutch), govt. websites all have English translations, street signs can have French, Dutch or other languages depending on location, etc. If you go to France, Mexico, Japan, the same is generally true. The U.S. is basically all-English.



There's no ambiguity, right now. There's no expectation that a State Trooper in Kalkaska is gonna give you a speeding ticket in Swahili or Slovak instead of English.

And that isn't the intent. We all know the intent.

when you go to Germany and other countries and the transit is also in English,why is that?

Next time you fly,tell them that you prefer a pilot that communicates in a language other then English,because you feel it is not the common language and you view it as anti immigrant.

Try moving to Spain and tell them you prefer they change their language to French,how well do you think that would go over.

With any luck the Chinese will figure out how to mass produce common sense cheaply.

When you speak of intent,what is your intent,what exactly is the point of moving to another country if you try to change it to mimic what you left?

[Zacha341]

Yeah, thank goodness aviation at the commercial level is one language. You must a common language in some areas - case closed. Aviation being one of them.

Next time you fly, tell them that you prefer a pilot that communicates in a language other then English,because you feel it is not the common language and you view it as anti immigrant.

[Richard]

^ notice nobody is saying it is anti immigration to use the dollar as the common currency in America.

I think if they were really devoted to the cause they would give me all of their USD because anything that is common is considered anti immigration,then they would be in peace and can pay the shopkeeper in the currency of their choice.

[Bham1982]

when you go to Germany and other countries and the transit is also in English,why is that?

Next time you fly,tell them that you prefer a pilot that communicates in a language other then English,because you feel it is not the common language and you view it as anti immigrant.

Try moving to Spain and tell them you prefer they change their language to French,how well do you think that would go over.

With any luck the Chinese will figure out how to mass produce common sense cheaply.

When you speak of intent,what is your intent,what exactly is the point of moving to another country if you try to change it to mimic what you left?

Horrible analogies, and not one statement is remotely relevant to the conversation. Absolutely bizarre.

[Scottathew]

This is just stirring the pot to pander to their base for no reason.

It would be like pro-science and pro-reality Democrats passing a bill declaring that the official age of Michigan and the Earth is billions of years old.

Sure, it would piss off a lot of religious conservatives to claim that the Earth is more than a few thousand years old, but the legislation would have no other purpose than to piss people off and divide us.

[Richard]

Horrible analogies, and not one statement is remotely relevant to the conversation. Absolutely bizarre.

See the disadvantage that you have when you do not even understand the common language of English ?

[Richard]

This is just stirring the pot to pander to their base for no reason.

It would be like pro-science and pro-reality Democrats passing a bill declaring that the official age of Michigan and the Earth is billions of years old.

Sure, it would piss off a lot of religious conservatives to claim that the Earth is more than a few thousand years old, but the legislation would have no other purpose than to piss people off and divide us.

Do you really think that they are sitting around up there reading the previous administrations play book.

Seems to me the best way to divide the country is not to have a common language,are you ready to learn 10 different languages to order a cup of coffee,or would you just go somewhere you would be able to communicate.

It is not hard to recognize immigrant communities that speak only their native language,they are in clusters,the very opposite of non divisive.

The only ones that are getting pissed off are the ones that find it offensive and are shocked that the country as a whole does not cater to their personal wants.

[oladub]

If you aren't a Russian bot, I give you credit for faithfully repeating Russian troll farm lies, word for word. I guess ignorance is bliss?

When your Dear Leader is imprisoned, what will be left? Will you still be parroting "But Hillary"! "Fakenews!" "Liberal Media!" and the like, or will it be a new compulsion? Will Trump still be deified from federal prison?

Had you read the article, you would have known that Matt Tiabbi makes the point that the left has labeled almost everyone it disagrees with as a Russian bot. That being the case, I should be happy to be called a Russian bot. It's better than being a parrot. Whatever the argument, the answer is "Russian bot, Russian bot". Michigan might save money by making English the official language. Proper parrot response: "Russian bot". Such legislation won't prohibit businesses from hiring non-English speakers. Proper parrot response: "Russian bot". Etc...

I doubt that Trump will be imprisoned but if he is, then we will get President Pence who is more of a neocon and interventionist like Hillary, W.Bush, McCain and Obama. The deep state will be back on top. Open borders and babel will be back on the agenda to control American workers and its middle class. You don't have to worry about me. I endured the previous two presidencies. You should be more worried about our children.

[Richard]

They are not bothered about the future,it is all about the here and now and what offends them personally today,tomorrow it will be something else.

Imagine what it would be like if those before us had the same thought patterns.

[bibs]

Now, this is Michigan English. I think I might make up one of these myself.
Gomez Adams - a couple of yoopers in chukes entered the party store through the door wall to get ready for the two tracker when a bunch of disappointed fudgies came out and almost got hit by the hi-low loaded with kegs.

[Bham1982]

See the disadvantage that you have when you do not even understand the common language of English ?

You would be very well served by eliminating all your current "news" sources. You've been conned.

For the millionth time, there is no issue. It's made-up. English is dominant, immigrants learn English, and there is no need for legislation targeting immigrants and educated people, to appease fearful and ignorant nativists.

[Bham1982]

That being the case, I should be happy to be called a Russian bot.

Then you should be absolutely thrilled. Putin's troll farms have done their job, quite well.