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  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by 313WX View Post
    In all fairness, aside from that one parking garage, Gilbert hasn't built anything (yet) either.

    And the Illitches do at least deserve credit for renovating the Fox Theatre, paying for Wayne Staye's new business school building, playing a critical role in bringing back one of Detroit's professional sports teams from the suburbs and repurposing an abandoned bread factory into a significant revenue generator for the city.
    Steve, is that you?

  2. #102

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    Seriously 313 if you're praising the Illitches at all and saying Gilbert hasn't built anything in the same sentence you're drinking some strong stupid juice

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by archfan View Post
    Steve, is that you?
    Who......?

  4. #104

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    So were gonna leave out the land speculation and demolition of structures from the record as well? As was mentioned Gilbert built 28 Grand, he constructed his data center in Corktown and soon City Modern will be finished flooding Brush Park with new residents and retail. He also gets bonus points for not unleashing a Kid Rock themed restaurant on the population. In all fairness...

  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by 313WX View Post
    In all fairness, aside from that one parking garage, Gilbert hasn't built anything (yet) either.

    And the Illitches do at least deserve credit for renovating the Fox Theatre, paying for Wayne Staye's new business school building, playing a critical role in bringing back one of Detroit's professional sports teams from the suburbs and repurposing an abandoned bread factory into a significant revenue generator for the city.
    Gilbert has been renovating many existing buildings, which isn't as sexy as building new, but certainly is needed. Good point though, Gilbert can unlock his "I build stuff" achievement by completing some of the promised projects.

    As to the Ilitches, you bring up some good points, I'm giving them a little less credit than they deserve. I'm very upset at how they've destroyed so much density while raking in so much tax incentive.

  6. #106

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    There is no comparison, it's a land slide (no pun intended), Gilbert has done way more than the ilitches terms of Downtown. Sue Mosley for midtown and so on. The ilitches just seem like they really don't grasp that people would actually want to live and work in the properties that they own had they built when they announced the district Detroit.

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by bragaboutme View Post
    The ilitches just seem like they really don't grasp that people would actually want to live and work in the properties that they own had they built when they announced the district Detroit.
    Or they do, but only exploited that to pump excitement as a giant PR ruse and collect hundreds of millions of tax dollars to build only what they wanted and demo what they didn't.

    I wish the expectations outlined in this post from 2015 were not proven almost entirely true:

    Quote Originally Posted by bust View Post
    I expect little more from the Ilitches than their arena, parking lots, and wider streets to speed suburbanites to the expressways and their casino. Aside from the Fox, that's pretty much all they've delivered except blight in their decades of history in Detroit. It's disgusting they tried to escape a contractual obligation to renovate the Eddystone, and I'm grateful to the city council for catching that. Without a legal obligation I expect nothing from them. And I expect them to try to weasel out of every legal obligation they don't want to fulfill if they can.

    This opinion is informed by their past actions. I question the motivations of those who want to obscure those facts.
    Last edited by bust; August-19-19 at 11:08 PM.

  8. #108

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    "Originally Posted by bust
    I expect little more from the Ilitches than their arena, parking lots, and wider streets to speed suburbanites to the expressways and their casino. Aside from the Fox, that's pretty much all they've delivered except blight in their decades of history in Detroit. It's disgusting they tried to escape a contractual obligation to renovate the Eddystone, and I'm grateful to the city council for catching that. Without a legal obligation I expect nothing from them. And I expect them to try to weasel out of every legal obligation they don't want to fulfill if they can.

    This opinion is informed by their past actions. I question the motivations of those who want to obscure those facts."




    Unfortunately, casino tax revenue pays the bills, millennials with suburban addresses, don't.

  9. #109

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    Them damned mullenials makin' things all nice n purtty. Don't none of em pay taxes...

  10. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seven&wyo View Post
    Them damned mullenials makin' things all nice n purtty. Don't none of em pay taxes...

    You're probably a DPS dropout, but try "spellcheck"...

  11. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honky Tonk View Post
    Unfortunately, casino tax revenue pays the bills, millennials with suburban addresses, don't.
    Weird comment. The city went through a massive bankruptcy while all those casinos and stadiums were supposedly paying the bills.

  12. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honky Tonk View Post
    You're probably a DPS dropout, but try "spellcheck"...
    Not even spell check can fix that.

  13. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
    Weird comment. The city went through a massive bankruptcy while all those casinos and stadiums were supposedly paying the bills.
    Maybe Honky Tonk was referring to the failed promise of building a 50-block residential district, which maybe would have moved some of those suburban addresses into the city, paying more taxes, etc.

  14. #114

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    Here you go. Let me know when you surpass $117 million in tax revenue from people playing Frisbee in the park. As far as the City going bankrupt, maybe the City Council having chauffeurs, body guards, and pocketing the till had something to do with it?

    https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...18/2514636002/

    As far as my comment about high rises next to a coliseum being a CF, it is exactly that, on any given game day. Been there, done that. If that's someone's idea of fun, well then, have @ it.
    Last edited by Honky Tonk; August-20-19 at 03:30 PM.

  15. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honky Tonk View Post
    Here you go. Let me know when you surpass $117 million in tax revenue from people playing Frisbee in the park. As far as the City going bankrupt, maybe the City Council having chauffeurs, body guards, and pocketing the till had something to do with it?

    https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...18/2514636002/

    As far as my comment about high rises next to a coliseum being a CF, it is exactly that, on any given game day. Been there, done that. If that's someone's idea of fun, well then, have @ it.
    When we read closely...

    The three casinos paid $117 million in gaming taxes to the state of Michigan last year, which increased from $113.4 million in 2017. In addition, the gambling centers disbursed $10.3 million in gaming taxes to the state in December.


    So they paid $117M to the state of Michigan. How much went to Detroit? Meanwhile, on the subject of money that actually goes to the city of Detroit...

    Recent revenue estimates set by the city-state Financial Review Commission, the board that has oversight of the cityís finances post-bankruptcy, project income tax revenue will be more than $273 million in the 2017 fiscal year, nearly $279 million the following year and more than $284 million in the 2019 fiscal year.

    https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...enue/95444502/


    The city could use a lot more of those taxpaying frisbee players.

  16. #116

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    Since this is an Ill-Leetch building project. (In which Olympia Entertainment is not a real estate company) They will have it done by 2030.

  17. #117

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    Them damned frisbee players, I knew it!!

  18. #118
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
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    Default

    I wish all of it back to the dream of the 90s were true. The facts are they don't give a darn about the city, culture, or history.

  19. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honky Tonk View Post
    As far as the City going bankrupt, maybe the City Council having chauffeurs, body guards, and pocketing the till had something to do with it?
    Yes, astonishingly, there are literally millions of white folks around here that still think like this. Most pretty much think that if only all those black folks running things in Detroit weren't so corrupt (and kind of stupid) Detroit would still be the 5th most populous city in the country and everything would be just as nice as it was in 1956. Simple as that. But you know what? They told us to hit Eight Mile so we did. They got what they deserved.

    Simple explanations for complex issues are always better, right?
    Last edited by swingline; August-30-19 at 11:06 AM.

  20. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley View Post
    I wish all of it back to the dream of the 90s were true. The facts are they don't give a darn about the city, culture, or history.
    What are you talking about?

  21. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by swingline View Post
    Yes, astonishingly, there are literally millions of white folks around here that still think like this. Most pretty much think that if only all those black folks running things in Detroit weren't so corrupt (and kind of stupid) Detroit would still be the 5th most populous city in the country and everything would be just as nice as it was in 1956. Simple as that. But you know what? They told us to hit Eight Mile so we did. They got what they deserved.

    Simple explanations for complex issues are always better, right?

    If you'd even bother to remotely do a bit of research into what was going on in those times. About the "whities" and Blacks that stuck it as long as they could before leaving, about all the money that was misspent, pilfered, or just plain vaporized, about how the City was neglected and fell into total disarray, you wouldn't feel compelled to grandstand and post pseudo racist bullshit.

  22. #122

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    Money misspent by who? The garbage the garbage politicians hired by detroiters? I have a hard time believing that a city that was considered to be the greatest city in the country fell to be an unlivable shithole because the "good" people stayed as long as they could. And then those same people who "stayed" are afraid of change for the better now. The last people anybody should listen to are the people who fucked up their neighborhood in the first place.

  23. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honky Tonk View Post
    If you'd even bother to remotely do a bit of research into what was going on in those times. About the "whities" and Blacks that stuck it as long as they could before leaving, about all the money that was misspent, pilfered, or just plain vaporized, about how the City was neglected and fell into total disarray, you wouldn't feel compelled to grandstand and post pseudo racist bullshit.
    I'm pretty comfortable with the level of my "research." What I know about "those times" is derived from a lot more than just listening to Granddad and Uncle Tony complain about how the old neighborhood "changed."

    The scale of corruption in Detroit circa 1955-1985 was no worse than any other large metropolitan area in the U.S. Likewise, the virulent white racism here during that era was no worse than most other peer cities. But Detroit declined far more than any other major city in the country. Sure, corruption and racism contributed significantly. But far more significant to Detroitís decline was its losing performance in the competition to successfully transform its local economy into one that can compete globally. When a local economy loses billion$ in annual paid wages over the course of less than a couple of decades, very bad things are going to happen. Perhaps better leadership, both elected and in the private sector might have avoided some of the worst results suffered by our region. But the problems encountered by the past couple of generations in Detroit were complex and not susceptible to easy solutions. A few (black) politicians on the take and too many poor people unwilling or unable to maintain their lawns properly were not the leading cause of Detroitís decline. Yet too many white folks around here wonít be persuaded of that anytime soon. Why engage in the heavy lifting aspect of possible solutions for our community when we can cluck about how ridiculous it was that in 1987 a couple of corrupt school board members used public money to pay for a chauffeur?

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