Transit after Amazon Flop ?

[Cincinnati_Kid]

This region is never going to have mass transit because the current county leaders refuse to work together to make it happen. They're only concern is who's going to pay for it and, whose county is going to get screwed in the process. It's going to take a new way of thinking to make it work.

[MicrosoftFan]

Does it have to be regional? What if Wayne country made their own system sans Oakland and Macomb? Maybe rope in Washtenaw too to build a Commuter Rail line and LRT down Michigan Fort and Grand River?

[Johnnny5]

Does it have to be regional? What if Wayne country made their own system sans Oakland and Macomb? Maybe rope in Washtenaw too to build a Commuter Rail line and LRT down Michigan Fort and Grand River?

Wayne County can't afford to do so. They are counting on those in Oakland and Macomb Counties to pay for the majority of it [[Even though many of them won't be able to use it), and that's precisely why the RTA proposal failed.

[iheartthed]

Wayne County can't afford to do so. They are counting on those in Oakland and Macomb Counties to pay for the majority of it [[Even though many of them won't be able to use it), and that's precisely why the RTA proposal failed.

Wayne County could do it creatively. Wayne County owns the airport so maybe they could set up a toll booth on the access roads to the airport. Maybe they could levy a transit tax on tickets passing through DTW. Maybe levy an additional tourist tax on hotel rooms and restaurants downtown [[I think the latter would require state approval). Maybe a tax on sporting event tickets too, now that all of the major teams are back in Detroit.

However, part of the reason why this is so hard is that the taxation system in Michigan is kinda screwed up. The state basically forbids local sales taxes, and toll roads, which are two common mechanisms that many other major cities use to fund services.

[dtowncitylover]

The state basically forbids local sales taxes, and toll roads, which are two common mechanisms that many other major cities use to fund services.

It would be nice to go back to the legislature and say "Let's do a sales tax. Let's rewrite and say local sales taxes are not allowed EXCEPT for regional transit in counties under the RTA of SE Michigan not exceeding x% [[probably like .25-1%)." But no, because it would be that​ hard.

[ABetterDetroit]

It would be nice to go back to the legislature and say "Let's do a sales tax. Let's rewrite and say local sales taxes are not allowed EXCEPT for regional transit in counties under the RTA of SE Michigan not exceeding x% [[probably like .25-1%)." But no, because it would be that​ hard.

That Hard? To make sense and be intelligent?

Is public transport good for the local economy?

Is putting landlords in charge of collecting a tax for every renter that lives in the RTA make any fucking sense? It’s a given that they will up charge the rent as much as possible with the built in excuse “it’s for the RTA millage increase”. Why would anyone think it’s a good idea to have a middle man collect a tax? All you do is pay for that service a fucking couple hundred percent.

Is preserving property values and stopping further blight a hard sell?

Property taxes in Detroit are already way to fucking high.

Taxing the living shit out of property hasn’t worked out so great for Detroit. It sure isn’t New Jersey or Connecticut with the City of New York just down the road.

PS. Pulp Fiction one of the best movies ever.

[O3H]

People are suffering damage to their vehicles
- this debate will become heated and nasty real quick.

[stasu1213]

I had noticed that the Fast bus doesn't go as FAST as it did when it first ran in January. I had suggested to SMART that the Gratiot Fast bus go to Michigan and Cass so that riders could connect to the DDOT busses at the Rosa Parks Transit Center. I really feel that SMART could had kept the REFLEX busses for Gratiot and kept the Limited busses for Woodward, Gratiot, and Michigan. I could say that I could hang out downtown much later being that there are busses that runs in and out of the city after 6pm. Don't slack up on services for Detroit still have to be commuter friendly to any other big companies who are possibly eyeing the city for a their second headquarters

[O3H]

Wonder what the SMART ridership numbers are, per year ?

https://www.smartbus.org/Portals/0/D...set%20Card.pdf

Personally I tried a SMART transport, for my elderly mother in Warren, to get to Beaumont Hospital in SterlingHeights/Troy and it was a disaster every time. I wrote a letter to them about their failures to keep appointment times, missed pickups, etc. Never again, they lost a customer.

[stasu1213]

Wonder what the SMART ridership numbers are, per year ?

https://www.smartbus.org/Portals/0/D...set%20Card.pdf

Personally I tried a SMART transport, for my elderly mother in Warren, to get to Beaumont Hospital in SterlingHeights/Troy and it was a disaster every time. I wrote a letter to them about their failures to keep appointment times, missed pickups, etc. Never again, they lost a customer.

I wonder who became the Director of SMART since the former Director had went over to DDOT? That director should be taken for review. Smart regular service had lost it's quality. Busses pull up at stops in the downtown area showing "Not in Service" in their display screen while bus drivers get mad when asked what bus are they. The busses don't run on time in the mornings and afternoon rush hours. I feel that the SMART maybe need of a new director and board. The Director is probably so far removed from Smart services that he doesn't have a clue on how to fix it. But as I had said; this is the Motor City where any improvement to mass transit is sabatoged so that potential commuters such as yourself will get discouraged about a late bus, throw up your hands and say let me get back to my CAR. I really think that poor services were made by design to keep those in Southeastern Michigan commuting by car and pay high parking or meter rates downtown/midtown and high insurances due to commuting back and forth throughout. Mark Hackel had even commented about commuters using this new driverless car system in the future.

[O3H]

With unions paying folks $20 to take a part off a rack, place it into a fixture, while a robot welds/builds it, we'll be paying $20,000 car notes forever.

Until people realize those jobs are NOT worth $40,000 a year + benefits,
we'll be stuck in this ridiculous CAR/TRUCK loop/cycle for another generation. Time for Detroit to find a new golden egg for its economy.

[Bham1982]

Wonder what the SMART ridership numbers are, per year ?

American Public Transit Association [[APTA) collects ridership numbers for basically all systems in U.S. and Canada. Latest ridership report is here:
http://www.apta.com/resources/statis...hipreport.aspx

So I know it's a chicken or egg thing, but where are the potential riders? I don't see it. I live on one of the "busiest" SMART lines, and see empty buses every day along Southfield Rd. and 14 Mile. If there are five passengers at rush hour, I'd be surprised. And service frequency is pretty good for Metro Detroit standards.

[O3H]

LBrooksP is cemented in his Opt Out option, firmly said so in the FlashPoint episode with Devin Scillian on Sunday morning. Warren Evans was noticeably upset that LBrooksP took the chicken shit way out of the conversation.

[Johnnny5]

LBrooksP is cemented in his Opt Out option, firmly said so in the FlashPoint episode with Devin Scillian on Sunday morning. Warren Evans was noticeably upset that LBrooksP took the chicken shit way out of the conversation.

That's because L. Brooks Patterson knows that the current plans being floated for regional transit would end up costing Oakland County residents far more, and delivering far less than promised. Also, many cities would be on the hook for funding a system that an overwhelming majority of their residents could not [[Or would not) use.

That's not "chicken shit". That's prudent policy from a county executive that is representing the needs and desires of his constituents and committed to properly handling their tax dollars. And it should not come as a surprise as LBP has kept OC government firmly in the black, and unstained by corruption for over two decades [[We all know the same can't be said of Wayne County or the City of Detroit)

[O3H]

LBrooksP is a white weasel, and it shows clearly is his selfish politics.
The reason OaklandCounty is rich, because it has not paid its fair share
- for many, many items, issues, and policies over several decades.
LBrooksP got his start via NAG in Pontiac

[Bham1982]

LBrooksP is a white weasel, and it shows clearly is his selfish politics.
The reason OaklandCounty is rich, because it has not paid its fair share
- for many, many items, issues, and policies over several decades.
LBrooksP got his start via NAG in Pontiac

Oakland County pays more in taxes than any county in the state, and gets back less than almost any, so no. It's the economic engine of the entire region. Without Oakland residents, most of the region's institutions, from DIA, to DSO, to DAC would fail in no time.

The fact that L. Brooks is a d-bag and fossil [[and possible racist) is irrelevant to whether or not it makes any sense for OC residents to vote for a tax increase for more empty buses clogging their streets.

[O3H]

Oakland County pays more in taxes than any county in the state, and gets back less than almost any, so no. It's the economic engine of the entire region. Without Oakland residents, most of the region's institutions, from DIA, to DSO, to DAC would fail in no time.
.

Can't back that up with facts, merely a false opinion.

[dtowncitylover]

DIA, to DSO, to DAC would fail in no time.

Only one of those are supported by tax dollars and even that I believe has an expiration date.

I'm trying to understand why Oakland County would fail with mass transit? Would our AAA rating go away? Would we become an undesirable place to live? The answer is no. LBP doesn't represent all of the OC. He represents his exurbanite lily white "paradise" that want nothing to with Detroit for any any number of vague, possibly racist, reasons.

[stasu1213]

What Detroit should do is concentrated installing mass transit within its borders. Rapid Busses will due with designated lanes, and traffic lights to be used. Also Detroit has a lot of rarity traveled streets that could be redesigned for rapid busses that could go crosstown.

[bust]

more empty buses clogging their streets.

It's funny when car drivers gripe about buses clogging their streets.

[Tig3rzhark]

What Detroit should do is concentrated installing mass transit within its borders. Rapid Busses will due with designated lanes, and traffic lights to be used. Also Detroit has a lot of rarity traveled streets that could be redesigned for rapid busses that could go crosstown.

Should DDOT have to lead with BRT routes in the city, they should do so. I would have hoped that any BRT established, would be ran by the RTA, but with the organization being divided as a result of LBP, some transit organizations will have to take the lead without it.

For those that state that LBP doesn't represent all of Oakland County, those words will have to be made with action. The man shows his age, and his views have continued to make history repeat itself.

The Macomb County Executive, has brought his support along LBP. The majority of the opposition comes from Macomb County. Those facts came during the failure of the 2016 transit millage.

This year, even though people have suggested that we try again, to pass this millage, this could be the death knell of the RTA. Something both OC and MC have wanted.

At this point, what I would ask is, what do we do?

[Bham1982]

Can't back that up with facts, merely a false opinion.

Why don't you see who serves on the board of the DIA, DSO and the like, who buys the subscriptions, who funds their programs, then get back to us. Would not be surprised if entire Board of Directors/Trustees lives in Oakland. Major foundation supporters like Frankel Foundation are almost all in Oakland.

[Bham1982]

I'm trying to understand why Oakland County would fail with mass transit?

No one claimed OC would "fail". The question is why would OC taxpayers pay higher taxes for the honor of more noisy, empty buses clogging their streets? There's zero benefit. I see the buses every day and there's almost no one on them.

[Bham1982]

It's funny when car drivers gripe about buses clogging their streets.

Why is that funny? Cars driving on the street are being utilized. An empty bus is just polluting, making noise, and making everyone else late.

[professorscott]

I see the buses every day and there's almost no one on them.

Well, let's break down why that would happen. These are all possibilities; I don't know which are germaine to your particular situation.

1. You are looking at buses near their remote terminal points. The SMART Gratiot buses are the busiest in their system, but if you are in New Baltimore, there are very few people on the bus.

2. You are looking at a bus line that does not serve major employment centers. SMART has some "lifeline" routes, routes that a fairly small number of people need in order to be able to connect to the busier routes.

3. You are looking at a too-sparse bus line. SMART has some routes that run only hourly. DDOT has some of these too, nowadays. The only people who will use such a route are people who have absolutely no choice whatever.

Everything I said about SMART holds equally for DDOT or any other provider anywhere. Not all routes are equally popular, and both DDOT and SMART serve a great many people overall, despite the paucity of routes and the flimsy schedules on way too many routes. You are opposed to fixing this, to making it better for the great many people who rely on it, because you see some of the less popular buses? Learn more before forming strongly-held opinions.