Lincoln Park Husband & Dad Deported to Mexico after Living in the US for 30 Years

[Zacha341]

I did not think it was a talking point... I was being sardonic. And yes, there has be ending point.

Why is that darn so partisan bound? [[Asking rhetorically...)....

As I've said before who ever grants the most immigration leniency will get votes from that group.

We're just a captive audience.

[Jimaz]

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[Richard]

So I was talking to an acquaintance today and she was telling me about how she supports the Dems immigration policy so much and hopes that they pass DACA and she can bring her two sons over.

They are currently waiting on the other side waiting to cross again.

Why say again?

They have already been expelled twice and cannot return unless it is a compassion based release.

They both were deported after numerous cases of armed carjacking,armed home invasion,home invasion here is where they kick the door in with guns and rob you.Armed burglary of an occupied dwelling,where you are in the house and they sneak in and then present weapons to rob you.

They have rap sheets a mile long of extremely voilent behavior,for Christmas one year she gave them $500 to go to the mall for shopping,an hour later she gets a phone call that they are being held by security,when she arrived she was angry and smack them because she was angry after giving them money they still stole.

So they arrested her for assault and let them go.

The moral of the story is there are good people and there are bad people they do not wear signs and sometimes it becomes to late when we discover who the bad people are.

When it comes to immigration you cannot base it on a blanket covered compassion aspect.

Read the story about the Mexican that cut his wife up in pieces and stuffed her into the oven over the weekend,that is grotesque to us where over there it is a common occurrence that even children witness,a lot of those countries see a level of violence on a daily basis that most here will never see in a lifetime.

We as a country do not just offer a chance at a dream,we offer a whole different world and way of life.

If we do not protect that way of life and base it on compassion only,we will lose that way of life.

Miami,1950s retired or vacationing northerners for fun in the sun.
1960s To 1980s
Cubans began to push the other Hispanics north and the level of violent crimes dramatically increases.

1980s to 1990s

Jamaicans,Haitians,Hondurans,and every other South America countries start pushing the Cubans north.

2000 to Present ,Venezuela,Russian,Peru start pushing everybody else up north.

It is not saying every immigrant is bad,most are like anybody else and want what is best for their family.

The rest bring a lifelong leval of violence that most Americans cannot even imagine,they will not have a beef with just you,it becomes everybody in your immediate family,without a second thought and zero remorse.

Ask them at that time to return the compassion that you showed them and see how far it goes.

That is why we not only need a path in but a path of no return out and a solid way of keeping them out once that decision is made.

That path to citizenship is a long term vetting process that helps to distinguish the good from the bad,without it there is no point of having immigration because it would be open borders.

We could base the wall on a monetary basis or question its need,but losing how many American lives are we willing to bet that there is no need?

[Wesley Mouch]

...That path to citizenship is a long term vetting process that helps to distinguish the good from the bad,without it there is no point of having immigration because it would be open borders.

We could base the wall on a monetary basis or question its need,but losing how many American lives are we willing to bet that there is no need?

Good post. It is hard for me to understand the Democratic position on immigration. They were once in favor of reasonable immigration control. Now it seems like any limits short of convicted murderer are off-the-table. I just don't understand the logic.

We 'westerners' live in a wonderful place. I think we forget just how 'rough' much of the world is. A day where every citizen of the world is treated with respect is a wonderful dream. But the only path there that I can see is strong immigration controls on western countries, and a gradual lifting of the rest of the world to 'western' standards. The borders are not a problem. They are a solution. They are what helps build our country, and what has helped so much of the world out of poverty over the last 50 years.

We are lucky indeed.

[archfan]

Good post. It is hard for me to understand the Democratic position on immigration. They were once in favor of reasonable immigration control. Now it seems like any limits short of convicted murderer are off-the-table. I just don't understand the logic.
...

I think there's a lot of blame to go around. The executive branch seems to be picking ever more controversial people to arrest - next week, an 80 year old who was born just before the ship made Boston harbor. Then the opposition takes the bait, makes even more provocative statements - we should offer plane tickets to anyone who wants to come. All sides commence screaming.

Meanwhile, the only people who thrive are the ones who benefit from chaos - rich donors looking for a big score, people expecting indictments, and foreign oligarchs.

[Bham1982]

Good post. It is hard for me to understand the Democratic position on immigration. They were once in favor of reasonable immigration control. Now it seems like any limits short of convicted murderer are off-the-table. I just don't understand the logic.

Based on this post I can only assume your worldviews are shaped by Breitbart, Alex Jones and the like.

The Dems [[and most Reps) have always been for very tough, but reasonable immigration control. It's the Trump cult and extreme nativists who hate foreigners and minorities, and want mass deportations of brown folks, including American citizens.

I have no idea what you're referring to re. "convicted murderers"; assume it's some Trumpian "immigrants and foreigners are killing Americans" brainwashed fakenews nonsense.

[Richard]

^ the previous presidents nickname in the immigration community was "deporter in chief".

Outside of immigrant rights groups Nobody said boo,or was it okay for him to do mass deportations of brown folks because of who he was?

Show the proof of mass deportations of naturalized American citizens,because even with your green card you a not a citizen until you become naturalized.

You said it ,prove it.

[Wesley Mouch]

Based on this post I can only assume your worldviews are shaped by Breitbart, Alex Jones and the like.

Don't know who Alex Jones is. Have heard of Breitbart, but have never read him, or it.

You may think what you wish of me. I don't care. But I'd rather you debate ideas than your perceptions of my 'worldview'. But since you brought it up, it is my view that the US has done more to improve the world than any other country alive today. We have been so successful in promoting equality, success, wealth, and happiness, that for all our warts remain the most desired place in the world to immigrate. Thanks for asking.

The Dems [[and most Reps) have always been for very tough, but reasonable immigration control. It's the Trump cult and extreme nativists who hate foreigners and minorities, and want mass deportations of brown folks, including American citizens.

I see that hate, but mostly see people who want immigration by rules, not by who gets away with with.

I have no idea what you're referring to re. "convicted murderers"; assume it's some Trumpian "immigrants and foreigners are killing Americans" brainwashed fakenews nonsense.

I was only allowing for Democrats who clearly are not in favor of totally unrestricted immigration. That democrats are in favor of 'Sanctuary Cities' tells me that you are wrong that they are in favor of tough, but reasonable immigration.

[Zacha341]

I see that hate, but mostly see people who want immigration by rules, not by who gets away with with.

Sentence of the week! Even immigrants already here can get to this. But it's easier to put the whole immigration policy construct on the 'hate/ and trump' cause to get the desired results politically.

[oladub]

Based on this post I can only assume your worldviews are shaped by Breitbart, Alex Jones and the like.

The Dems [[and most Reps) have always been for very tough, but reasonable immigration control. It's the Trump cult and extreme nativists who hate foreigners and minorities, and want mass deportations of brown folks, including American citizens.

I have no idea what you're referring to re. "convicted murderers"; assume it's some Trumpian "immigrants and foreigners are killing Americans" brainwashed fakenews nonsense.

Facts:
-Increasing the supply of cheaper foreign workers depresses the wage rate of U.S. workers, the power of unions, and puts strains on education and other social services that have to be divided over more people. The decline in California public schools is an example.
-Illegal non-citizens are over represented in our prisons.
-About 80% of U.S. population growth is from immigrants, legal and otherwise, and their offspring. One cannot be both green and support present immigration policies because those tens of millions of additional residents will require more roads, parking lots, parks, stuff and require more intensive farming and mineral extraction, smelters, etc..
-Bringing in low skill immigrants will do almost nothing and might even hurt the third world. Sweden, for instance, has had to reduce its generous contributions to impoverished nations to afford to sustain all its 'refugees'. One estimate is that the reduction of Swedish contributions in Africa results in an additional 12,000 deaths annually.
-The UN cared for refugees from Syria for 1/12 the cost of sustaining them in the US which means 12x more refugees could be cared for by sending the same money to the UN or similar agencies if humanitarian concerns were really the issue. Also, refugees in adjacent countries are much more likely to return home to rebuild their countries. I can't find it now but I read that 40% of Syria refugees from nearby refugee camps have already returned home as ISIS is rolled back. What percentage of Syrian refugees in the US have similarly returned home to rebuild their communities?

My take is that we have choices between prioritizing the interests of U.S. workers and its middle class or those of foreigners, profiteering employers, and Democratic party leaders.

“The fight to protect Dreamers is not only a moral imperative, it is alsoa critical component of the Democratic Party’s future electoral success” -Former Hillary Clinton official Jennifer Palmieri

800,000 dreamers was the figure that was batted around. Trump agreed to let in, instead, 1,800,000 dreamers. But Democrats want more - the retention of open borders and farcical massive immigration policies. Allow me to anecdotally illustrate the farcical part. Ann-Laure Decandt [[photo below) was a Belgian tourist, mother of 3 year old and 3 mo. old boys, who, along with seven others, were killed in NYC by Islamist Sayfullo Saipov who was let into the US in 2010 with a diversity visa. Mr. Saipov, in turn, used chain immigration to bring in 23 'relatives'. Think about that. Democrats want to prioritize policies that brought in a terrorist who picked 23 additional immigrants instead of prioritizing working and middle class Americans.

[Richard]

On June 15, 2012, President Obama announced a plan to assist undocumented youth.

It was not a law, or even a regulation. It was not a long-term solution, nor did it grant a legal status. But, it was a very exciting step forward. This program, called Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals [[DACA) is a way for undocumented young people to ask the U.S. Immigration Service to exercise prosecutorial discretion to let them stay for two years at a time. And DACA can also lead to a 2 year work card and a Social Security number.

http://e4fc.org/dacafaqs.html

At the end of the day it provided work authorization and a 2 year stay of deportation.

It does not say you are automatically granted citizenship and or the rights of citizenship,or provide a 100% garuentee that everybody qualified.

Elections were coming up,53% of California's voting block is Hispanic,but it is the currant presidents fault that they were thrown a crumb of false hope,he knew that the first batch timeline would not expire until after the election.

Who exactly kicked the can down the road and what was the reason?

It actually would have worked if that pesky little thing called the electoral vote was not the deciding factor.

I guess the thing to do is to call the currant president and his supporters every name and label in the book to gain support for the cause because that works so well.

What was that saying about catching bees?

[Zacha341]

Increasing the supply of cheaper foreign workers depresses the wage rate of U.S. workers, the power of unions, and puts strains on education and other social services that have to be divided over more people. The decline in California public schools is an example.

Really? That sentence alone should remind even the most partisan bound person that we must have sustainable immigration plans going forward, whoever the POSTUS IS.

[Wesley Mouch]

...
The Dems [[and most Reps) have always been for very tough, but reasonable immigration control. ...

Chewing on this... 'ham... if you believe this is true, please explain why Dems haven't accepted Trump's plan to grant a path to citizenship for dreamers? What is the democratic objection? All I can hear through my patented Breitbart filter is whining about Trump.

Trump's given in on Dreamers. Proposed reform. Increased border security. An idiotic wall. Except for the wall, what's not to like? I don't see how the Dems are fighting this.

Even Michael Bloomberg -- a Trump hater's site: President Donald Trump has done something that has eluded the Republican Party for nearly a decade: He has outlined the possibility of broad immigration reform.

Trump's immigration framework is far from perfect. But the fact that it is being criticized by the extreme wing of his party should be taken as a sign of hope that it just may be the basis for bipartisan discussion. For this reason, Democrats should treat the proposal with more seriousness [[and less derision) than they have to date.


To be sure, there's plenty wrong with Trump's framework -- his insistence on wasting $25 billion for a wall system, in particular, and the veiled curbs on asylum. But in other ways the plan is an advance. For the Dreamers, anything less than a path to citizenship would be deeply unfair. And, in principle, it makes good economic sense, as Trump proposes, to replace the U.S. emphasis on family reunification with rules addressed to shortages of labor.

[aj3647]

Chewing on this... 'ham... if you believe this is true, please explain why Dems haven't accepted Trump's plan to grant a path to citizenship for dreamers? What is the democratic objection? All I can hear through my patented Breitbart filter is whining about Trump.

Consider this:

1) Schumer offered billions to fund Trump's wall last month as part of a larger immigration reform, Trump turned HIM down.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...l-offer-359156

2) Dick Durban and Lindsay Graham came up with a bipartisan bill to address immigration reform, Trump rejected that as well.
http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...ead-on-arrival

3) Until literally just one hour ago, House Speaker Paul Ryan had thus far refused to promise to even consider a vote on immigration legislation of any kind, even the proposal floated by Trump.

4) Legislation is not made by "the President proposing something and the minority party in Congress agreeing to it." That's not how laws work. To date, I'm unaware of any of Trump's allies in Congress putting the President's proposal into actual written legislation and then introducing it for a vote.

[Richard]

What .... and have the dreamers saying thank you to Trump and maybe lean or start to think maybe those repubs are not so bad after all.

Nancy would rather see the wacko launch nukes at us before allowing that.

It is much easier to have the appearance of being ones champion to gain support then it is to actually do something productive.

I do find it odd that the one people like to call a dictator has actually found common ground in pretty much everything he has done so far.

Not really how a dictator actually works.

Schumer offered a total package of 25 billion,wall and security,now minius the yearly expenditure that the enforcement aspect alone costs,how much was set for the wall by itself?

The United States taxpayer reimburses US hospitals 8 billion a year under the emergency Medicare plan in order to cover the costs of illegal expenses and anchor babies.

So Schumer offers 2 years of that towards the wall?

How much does 8 billion x 5 equal and that is how much was spent in the last 5 years,and we wonder why we cannot afford healthcare for our own poor.

That is $40 billion dollars so somebody can come here to have a baby so the baby is an American citizen and can apply for its parents green card.

We can cough up 40 billion so somebody can have a baby,but yet no infrastructure,skills training,mass transit etc. Yep we do have our priorities in order.

[Zacha341]

^^^Hah. Priorities are askew, and face down at the throne of politics we are blinded to our own best interests......

[Zacha341]

Nice meme. Limbaugh's consistently face down, blinded at the throne of 'my party, right or wrong' politics. Got that.

America's historical genocide against native Americans is inarguable. But I never participated. What is one today to take away from this? Am I [[or we as nation collectively) to persist in, or be obliged to gain some absolution from this 'politically' approved self loathing/ guilt head-set?

Some would readily say yes. If yes, is that self-loathing and guilt now to be somehow offset by our immigration policies alone??

If so, what level of immigration tolerance et al is needed to fulfill the required absolution for this nations guilt? What about the other things US has done? What's the end game?

Are we waiting for other nations to follow our lead [[doubtful that they will)?

And who's standing as judge of the sufficiency of said absolution[[s)? What privilege are those dictating our new behaviors setting aside for themselves while telling me what to do going forward?

Hey, we're all here now [[along with our current immigrants), and my ancestors helped build this country too. I have a certain level of investment and I'm not leaving, or walking in politically ascribed self-loathing. K.

And last but not least, are Native Americans really helped by having more illegal immigrants? Or do they continue to be used as pawns, with more 'promises'?

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[Farwell]

^^^
Brilliant!!!

[Wesley Mouch]

America's historical genocide against native Americans is inarguable. But I never participated. What is one today to take away from this? Am I [[or we as nation collectively) to persist in, or be obliged to gain some absolution from this 'politically' approved self loathing/ guilt head-set?

Absolution is not on the table. The self-loathing and guilt are intended to be enduring -- with the constantly receding golden city of equity on the ever-receding horizon.

Some would readily say yes. If yes, is that self-loathing and guilt now to be somehow offset by our immigration policies alone??

If so, what level of immigration tolerance et al is needed to fulfill the required absolution for this nations guilt? What about the other things US has done? What's the end game?

Level -> unrestricted free movement of people
Previous penance -> irrelevant so long as our minds are judged to be impure
End game -> none -- continues foreer

Are we waiting for other nations to follow our lead [[doubtful that they will)?

I think we are actually being led by Canada. Canada grants 'First Nations' veto power over most development -- even after they approve. See current pipeline debate where the environmentalists defend the bands, and the bands have already signed development deals to take the cash.

And who's standing as judge of the sufficiency of said absolution[[s)? What privilege are those dictating our new behaviors setting aside for themselves while telling me what to do going forward?

Twitter.

Hey, we're all here now [[along with our current immigrants), and my ancestors helped build this country too. I have a certain level of investment and I'm not leaving, or walking in politically ascribed self-loathing. K.

Bravo.

And last but not least, are Native Americans really helped by having more illegal immigrants? Or do they continue to be used as pawns, with more 'promises'?

They are pawns. Pawns are necessary. Without victims, we can't have penance for our sins against them.

Immigration of course helps Native Americans too, as it helps our economy. Look at the benefit from the overwhelming European immigration from 1492-1920. Very positive.

[Zacha341]

^^^ 'Twitter' that's funny! ----

Yeah - I know absolution is not really what this is about. That perspective is far above the paygrade.

Compelling responses.

Yes, let the games begin, uh, I mean continue.

[Wesley Mouch]

...
Yeah - I know absolution is not really what this is about. That perspective is far above the paygrade.
...
Yes, let the games begin, uh, I mean continue.

I laugh out loud every time I hear the CBC say 'Truth and Reconciliation Commission' [[w.r.t. First Nations).

The idea, which I think may be from South Africa, is that if you can get to the truth, you can work towards reconciliation. I'm not too sure it worked in S.A. -- and certainly hasn't in Canada.

The truth is just the evil parts of the truth -- with no context except pain.

The reconciliation means 'give us stuff forever', and also 'give us power forever'.

No reconciliation will ever be achieved this way. If you need proof, look at the latest outrage at the case up there where a court let a 'bad guy' off the hook. Reconciliation? No. Bring out the mob!

But what's this got to do with this poor deported guy. Maybe that we'd be wise to accept the truth that we let a lot of innocent kids and family members into our country -- it was a mistake -- but it happened -- so let's do the right thing and let them stay -- even if without full citizenship.

[Richard]

The problem without full citizenship which is going through the naturalization process is there is no loyalty to the country.

The immigrants of today are not the same as yesteryear,there are some that go through the naturalization process and are proud to become Americans and support our way of life.

The vast majority I am meeting as of late and more so middle eastern is they will retain the green card status and not go through the naturalization process because they do not want to give up their home country status and are here for one reason only,make money to send back and invest in their home country so when they return they are considered the elite.

These corner stores in the hood,that money does not stay locally,once it is spent it is removed from the system and not reinvested in the community,it is a massive drain.

The other day I went out to help a Puertro Rican friend on a job at a Pakistani owned store and that was the first time I heard a middle eastern show and voice his disgust against Puerto Rican's because they are considered Americans and do not have to go through the process.

The Cubans and every other South American country do not get along with Puerto Rican's for that same reason,to the point where they do not even want to live next to each other.

I think there should be a path to citizenship but also being able to hold a green card for 40 years without making that commitment of naturalization is counterproductive because they do not have the right to vote,but they shure try to influence the vote.

I am still hardheaded on the aspect of if you love your country so much why did you leave,you clearly did not support your birth country so why be expected to support this one.

But that is the way it goes,support responsible and respectful immigration and you become labeled anti immigration.

[Wesley Mouch]

The problem without full citizenship which is going through the naturalization process is there is no loyalty to the country.

Shame on us, if we are not insisting on loyalty to their new country. This is a basic requirement of an immigrant citizen. If you are native born, then you had no choice in the matter. But if you decide to move to a country, you need to accept and embrace their culture and laws. That doesn't mean blindly. And it doesn't mean you can't advocate for improvements. But you can't arrive with a broad dislike for the existing culture.

...snip...
These corner stores in the hood,that money does not stay locally,once it is spent it is removed from the system and not reinvested in the community,it is a massive drain.

Richard, here I differ with you. First of all, the actual products are mostly from the USA -- same as when you buy from Kroger, Meijer, or Amazon. So even at corner-store rates, the large majority of your spend stays in the US. Second, they are living here, so their rent or home purchase or mortgage likely stayed in the US. And sending profits back home? I've no problem with that.

The purchaser gets the benefit of the product at the corner, and doesn't need to travel. So the purchaser benefits.

I do not see your case that this is any significant loss to our economy. It seems like an immigrant helping build our and their native societies.

The other day I went out to help a Puertro Rican friend on a job at a Pakistani owned store and that was the first time I heard a middle eastern show and voice his disgust against Puerto Rican's because they are considered Americans and do not have to go through the process.

The Cubans and every other South American country do not get along with Puerto Rican's for that same reason,to the point where they do not even want to live next to each other.

Fun to read. We all tend to lump all immigrants together into one idea. And of course they are a very diverse group.

...

[Richard]

^ 1 out of 10 of my customer base is immigrants,right now is Indian,and Middle Eastern,yes they buy houses and food and cars on a 3 to 5 year plan then at the end of the term they gift it to a relative to avoid the tax,so one house sold is sold one time in 20 years.

For every $350,000 that they make in one year the other 3 years is exported so that is the ratio that is put back into the local economy,talk to their " commission" heads who pretty much control everybody,millions are sent each month.

Thats what they do,c-stores,gas stations,large scale tire shops,anything that generates large amounts of cash,they live on bare minimum the rest is put in a pile and sent overseas,they are a massive cash generating machine for export.

Their only pourpose is to generate cash,nothing more.

Not all,there are some that are serious and want a better place to raise their family and are some of the nicest and respectful people that you would ever want to meet.

The others have an agenda.

The Mexican not the one in the OP that was up for deportation was given another year because his son who is American born has cancer,but that is how it works,once you have a baby born in America even if you are illeagle you can apply for your citizenship on the baby's behalf.

So why has nobody or very few done that in the past ? They waited kicking the can down the road,until now when the road ran out.

[Wesley Mouch]

^^^ I don't see why its a problem that immigrants are willing to work hard, to make money, and send 'a pile of it' back home.

The customers decided to buy. They weren't forced. The money went to Iraq, and was used to life family out of poverty. And then to buy an iPhone made in China with profits supporting jobs in Silicon Valley. Sounds like desirable economic activity to me