Lincoln Park Husband & Dad Deported to Mexico after Living in the US for 30 Years

[Richard]

status as an illegal certainly had something to do with this.
Ive been thru the immigration process in the last year, sponsored my wife who was here legitimately on H1B doing postgrad research

Give her a big hug and a welcome to America,I hope you two have a long and happy marriage.

Most do not understand what is involved in the process,miss one thing and it back to the beginning,lots of money and stress and hurry up and wait.

In this case he said that his lawyer screwed up which put him on the radar,even at that once applied for you are given a time frame to straighten things out,if you miss that time frame another deportation order is issued,more lawyers to fight it,he fought 3 deportation orders.

But he was married 15 years to a US citizen,if he would have paid the fine and self deported he could have been back in 90 days legally 14 years ago.

That is why this was a horrible case to showcase in the public,you cannot kick the can down the road with immigration and now sadly he is screwed,but that can be why they are showcaseing it,in order to draw public support to force the US attorney general to sign off.

It will not help the other 180,000 already gone or the hundreds of thousands stuck in the same situation.

Even more so when 1.2 million a year are successful doing it by the book.

They really need a bipartisan panel that will operate outside of the government per say and come up with a total immigration reform package.

That will never happen though because as soon as panel members are selected it will become a media crapstorm of bitching about who is on the panel,just like the manufacturing panel which dissolved and the American worker got screwed once again.

The only way that anything will change is by the people demanding it,not by forcing a gov shutdown but by saying it is our political agenda and not the politicians,who are supposed to be working for us.

We need to stop with all of the distractions and start concentrating on the things that effect our daily lives as Americans.

It does not matter if one does not like the currant president,but it is clear that he is not afraid to rock the boat or to piss people off,or even be political correct the wise thing to do is to use that to our advantage.

Immigration
Inner schools and opportunities
Infrastucture
Mass transit

You guys pulled together and brought a city back from the brink,the rest of the country can do the same thing,if we cannot put the pettiness aside and deal with what we need to do then we deserve what we get and there is really no need to get worked up over things like this post because it will not change anything.

Two things right now.

Immigration reform

Bring back the manufacturing council which in turn kicks in apprenticeship programs for those struggling in school and for those in college so when they get out they have expirence and a job in their field of studies and do not have to be worried about paying the student debt.

That stops a lot of bleeding and with very little effort other then showing the support on both sides because it effects both sides equally.

Any company that hires a student that is currently in college and hires in their field of study receives a tax credit equal to 50% of their salary while they are in the apprenticeship program,not to exceed 10% of their total workforce.

Any company that hires a student that is currently in school that is receiving passing grades and enrolled in a apprenticeship program receives a 40% tax credit equal to their salary,not to exceed 10% of their workforce.

Any student that is in school and is receiving failing grades or is dropping out but joins the apprenticeship program for the skilled trades industry receives a 55% of the salary as a tax credit,not to exceed 25% of the total work force or exceed a period of three years.

It can be consider corporate welfare or it can be considered as the taxpayer investing in the future with a payoff.

A company that wishes to take advantage of that would be more inclined to locate in cities that have a higher unemployment rate along with city's that have a highly unskilled supply of labor.

They cannot collect on the credits unless they employ,so it is credits received by showing results.

There is no need to sell the bus to get companies to locate and promise to provide jobs that in most cases never really seem to appear as originally stated.

Performance based incentives that show a return.

[Bham1982]

status as an illegal certainly had something to do with this.
Ive been thru the immigration process in the last year, sponsored my wife who was here legitimately on H1B doing postgrad research

Your wife could come legally. Most undocumented immigrants could never come legally. So there's no comparison.

I'm a [[legal) immigrant. But I know many undocumented immigrants, and not one could have come here legally. To come here legally you need money and time, and poor laborers don't have 15k sitting around and 10 years to wait while their family is hungry.

In a perfect world the U.S. would have a guest worker program like every other first world country on earth, but that's not happening.

At this point, better to do nothing and wait Trump out. I think he's more likely to be removed and imprisoned than to finish his term, and he'll be powerless anyways come Nov. when he loses Congress. Wait him out and then we can fix this mess, once we have a "normal" Rep or Dem President.

[Richard]

Your wife could come legally. Most undocumented immigrants could never come legally. So there's no comparison.

I'm a [[legal) immigrant. But I know many undocumented immigrants, and not one could have come here legally. To come here legally you need money and time, and poor laborers don't have 15k sitting around and 10 years to wait while their family is hungry.

In a perfect world the U.S. would have a guest worker program like every other first world country on earth, but that's not happening.

At this point, better to do nothing and wait Trump out. I think he's more likely to be removed and imprisoned than to finish his term, and he'll be powerless anyways come Nov. when he loses Congress. Wait him out and then we can fix this mess, once we have a "normal" Rep or Dem President.

Actualy we do have a guest worker program,not only do we have one it is similar to every other first world nation and including non first world countries.

They are all the same Guest worker = seasonal agriculture workers and temporary domestic help or maids.

https://www.loc.gov/law/help/guestworker/index.php

So you immigrated here for the luxury but cannot stand the country. Nice.

Why did you immigrate to this country?

You do realize that you are in violation of the oath you took in order to become a citizen and now have publicly documented it,or was that oath a joke to you?History is loaded with cases of immigrants that received citizenship but yet were deported for violations of that oath.

Citizenship through green or pink card and not yet naturalised.

No suprise disrespect the oath disrespect the country.

Go ahead and wait on the dream of the currant presidents demise,maybe we need more normal immigrants?

Have you ever spoken to an illegal? One whose family in their home country raised the funds so they could come here but they were deported because they never filed.They had time and money.

Why does an illegal immigrant have excess to levels of health care that a US citizen does not?

The issue is immigrants with no money,so how do they support themselves here and what happens when they get sick who pays for it?

That is the exact same question that every country in the world asks,and to get a visa to even travel to most of those countries you have to prove a source of income and ties outside of their country,because they do not want you staying there without leaving either.

And you better have some kind of health insurance because if you get sick they do not want to get stuck with the bill.

[Bham1982]

Actualy we do have a guest worker program,not only do we have one it is similar to every other first world nation and including non first world countries.

No, we have no guest worker program. You're making stuff up [[again). We're the only first world country without such a program.

Has nothing to do with seasonal farm help. We're talking regular, semi-permanent employees, like in basically every other country, in factories, offices, stores and the like.

Why did you immigrate to this country?

None of your damn business. I owe you no explanation.

You do realize that you are in violation of the oath you took in order to become a citizen and now have publicly documented it,or was that oath a joke to you?

You're lying, yet again. There is NOTHING in the oath of citizenship that requires me to rat out undocumented immigrants to appease a bunch of gangsters and racists squatting in the White House.

History is loaded with cases of immigrants that received citizenship but yet were deported for violations of that oath.

Are you threatening me? Go for it, dude. You're lying, yet again.

You cannot be deported for taking the oath and not reporting an undocumented citizen [[which isn't even a criminal offense, BTW; the act of being undocumented is legally akin to a traffic violation). You can't even be deported for not reporting a mass murderer; there is no legal obligation to retain citizenship based on reporting lawbreakers.

Are you also calling for Melania to be deported and Trump jailed? She came illegally and Trump fraudulently attested that she never worked under a tourist visa. Something tells me you think the Klan-lover and illegal porn star wife are "great Americans".

No suprise disrespect the oath disrespect the country.

ANYONE who wants dreamers unilaterally deported and threatens legal citizens for not reporting undocumented immigrants is a traitor to this country, and has lost any right to call themselves American. You, sir, fit that category.

Go ahead and wait on the dream of the currant presidents demise,maybe we need more normal immigrants?

You mean no more lying Kremlin stooges and illegal immigrant porn stars in the White House? No more families torn apart and communities devastated? Yes, that will be a wonderful day. I'll be thrilled when we're free of these looting gangsters.

Have you ever spoken to an illegal?

Yes, many are my close friends. They are wonderful husbands, fathers and business owners, who love this country dearly, and respect its ideals. I know no undocumented immigrant who isn't 10x the American as you.

[Richard]

No, we have no guest worker program. You're making stuff up [[again). We're the only first world country without such a program.

Has nothing to do with seasonal farm help. We're talking regular, semi-permanent employees, like in basically every other country, in factories, offices, stores and the like.

You have posted twice now saying the US has no Guest worker Program.

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/us-...orker-programs

U.S. temporary foreign worker programs, sometimes referred to as guest worker programs, have more than doubled in size in recent decades: more than one million visas were granted in 2014, up from some four hundred thousand in 1994. The H1B, H2A, H2B, and H4 visas,

Or you figure if you say it is not so enough times it becomes true?

None of your damn business. I owe you no explanation.[/Quote]

The question was what country did you immigrate from?

You are correct,no explanation necessary,you left a country instead of helping straighting it out only to come to this country where it is clear you also have no loyalties here and spend your time trying to turn this country into what you left by spreading false information.

If you are still on a green card without being naturalized then you cannot vote anyways,so there is no "we" in waiting on another election.

The only reason I asked about your country of origin was to get a little insight on your mindset.


You're lying, yet again. There is NOTHING in the oath of citizenship that requires me to rat out undocumented immigrants to appease a bunch of gangsters and racists squatting in the White House.[/Quote]

Between you and the other one who is quick to call people liars,I am not sure about the country where you came from,but most parts in this one,when you call somebody a liar you better be damn sure you have your facts in place or have the ass to back it up.

I never said you had to rat out Ileagle immigrants,it is illegal and Not undocumented no matter how you twist it.They are a number and their number will get called,it is a matter of odds,and sense when did you acquire scruples and worry about ratting?

The second part I will answer when you tell me if you are a naturalized citizen or still on a green card.

300 zones that voted for President Trump were 2 time Obama voters,were they also racist.


Are you threatening me? Go for it, dude. You're lying, yet again.[/Qoute]

No you have me confused,I do not make threats,it is a waste of breath and demands a response.I prefer to just do things that need to be done without all of the discussion.

You cannot be deported for taking the oath and not reporting an undocumented citizen [[which isn't even a criminal offense, BTW; the act of being undocumented is legally akin to a traffic violation). You can't even be deported for not reporting a mass murderer; there is no legal obligation to retain citizenship based on reporting lawbreakers.[/Quote]

Once again it is not undocumented,it is illegal which is why they get deported,the original topic was about a guy that was being deported,did you miss that part? If being here illegally was akin to getting a speeding ticket then you need to let Immigration be aware of your facts.


Are you also calling for Melania to be deported and Trump jailed? She came illegally and Trump fraudulently attested that she never worked under a tourist visa. Something tells me you think the Klan-lover and illegal porn star wife are "great Americans".



ANYONE who wants dreamers unilaterally deported and threatens legal citizens for not reporting undocumented immigrants is a traitor to this country, and has lost any right to call themselves American. You, sir, fit that category.[/Quote]

Are you in need of physiological help ? There are programs advailable even for Illegals.

This is like the second time you are moaning on,mind showing me where I said that you need to rat ?



You mean no more lying Kremlin stooges and illegal immigrant porn stars in the White House? No more families torn apart and communities devastated? Yes, that will be a wonderful day. I'll be thrilled when we're free of these looting gangsters.

Yes, many are my close friends. They are wonderful husbands, fathers and business owners, who love this country dearly, and respect its ideals. I know no undocumented immigrant who isn't 10x the American as you.[/QUOTE]

Once again it is not undocumented but illegal and how do they respect this countries ideals by breaking its laws?

You say that you are here legally and you do not even respect its values,you are like the poster child for ending all immigration period.

How do they own business without a SS number,it is also illegal to make money in the United States while in an illegal status.

What happens if they screw over a customer while in business,what is the consumer recourse?

Wonderfull illegals that attend rally's waving the flag of their birth country demanding rights from the country that they broke the law to enter illegally.

I am sure that makes all the sense in the world to you.

[Wesley Mouch]

If you can put a little bit of the 'ad hominem' in a box, this is an enjoyable exchange. Passionate people debating, and presenting ideas and thoughts.

You ask what I think? Thanks.

We should make sure our immigration policy is compassionate, but also wise. I want immigrants. But I don't want the immigrants to self-select. We want immigrants who build on our successes. That can mean pure labor at the bottom of wage scale, and mean entrepreneurs and engineers on the higher end.

But it can't be a free-for-all. There are by some counts about 700 million people in the world who desire to emigrate to the 'west'. Is the world a better place if we relocate all of them? No. So we do need some limits on immigration. And those limits do need to be enforced by rules. But yes, I think we can poach the best talent and labor. And the world will be a better place for all. If we just open our doors wide, I don't think it'll turn out as well.

Thanks for asking.l

[Zacha341]

Hah. Forget about it!---- That thinking is far too welded/wedded to the Trump+Racist+Repub play-book for some to see thru to the practicality of even reasonable immigration laws. But I do.

More everyday are starting to see beyond the veil of politics to get to the fact that this can't be a free for all on any level.

We should make sure our immigration policy is compassionate, but also wise. I want immigrants. But I don't want the immigrants to self-select. We want immigrants who build on our successes.

[Richard]

The goal would be to provide a uniform immigration policy that is even across the board.

From the 1930s it has become a political football and here we are.

The problem with DACA is that it was a band aid and not a solution and it is not just talking about 1.6 million there is a whole can of worms behind all of that which also needs to be addressed.

DACA also sends a message that if you come across the border and bid your time until the correct political climate you will be granted citizenship.

The numbers speak,DACA is announced border crossings increased,during the campaign and when DACA was thought to be on the table then border crossings decreased.

Imigrates that come to this country are coming to a country for the first time,they were not born here,so the argument of somebody going to a country that they have no ties to is pretty much null.

As it stands, it is kinda like God at the pearly gates,saying okay you can come in,just bide your time and you will be okay,but then tell the next one in line that they have to follow the rules.

That is selective compassion and really not a fair process for everybody.

It also needs to based on the actual needs of the country,if we have collage graduate engineers and techs that cannot find a job is it good policy to say okay you are a foreign born tech or engineer so you get to go to the head of the line.

That is a policy that encourages corporate abuse and undercuts our own people,then we tell the graduates to pay their debt but then take away their options to pay it by stacking the odds against them.

Then that resolution is to cancel out the debt,which is another temporary band aid to get votes that does not resolve the problem.

The words compassion and immigration should really not be connected,it should be a clear and fair path for everybody.

[Zacha341]

Yep. We tend to forget the political messages sent. Much of this is about politics. The side that grants unregulated immigration will have the vote of those individuals and groups onward. That power cannot be ignored.

The Repubs [[deep steeped Trumpers and the neocons etc.) know this too and trying to leverage and pivot without ditching their base - dancing on the head of their pin to do so. Nancy Pelosi [[D) is on overdrive reminding us about white-men/ people oppressors [[forgetting she too is white, privileged and rich - so who really trust that?) hoping she won't loose hers.

Anyway, like all bidding rather it is an auction, or immigration status, timing is everything.

DACA also sends a message that if you come across the border and bid your time until the correct political climate you will be granted citizenship.

[Zacha341]

Umm-eh, we have too much collective self-loathing [[well I don't) to get to that.

Plus that thinking is too branded to what 'Trump' wants solely - ala his platform and his peeps. So that needs-of-the-country factor shall be ignored. Too 'MAGA'... don't cha know?

In the meantime for my son/ daughter toiling away in college, and I want great things for them. Yeah...

It also needs to based on the actual needs of the country, if we have college graduate engineers and techs that cannot find a job is it good policy to say okay you are a foreign born tech or engineer so you get to go to the head of the line. nother temporary band aid to get votes that does not resolve the problem...

[Zacha341]

UPDATE:

In a strange land: Deported from Michigan, Jorge Garcia feels lost in Mexico

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...co/1081266001/

[Richard]

To be unbiased they can now go interview the millions of immigrants that came to this country legally,a foreign land,no family support,not knowing the system or even speaking the common language,but yet they survived and prospered.

In this situation where his family can join him and live very comfortable there on the disability check who would even think twice about not haveing them join you?

It is his decision to stay in his room that his aunt has provided and only come down for meals,it is his decision to not have his family join him,his wife is a citizen after being born here from parents being here illegally,the whole missing the kids aspect is a bit baffling.

He has options,just not the ones they are demanding.

Now he is going to spend the next couple of years fighting this and being separated from his family and creating a hardship that does not exist.

Sorry,bad example for a tear jerker.

[Zacha341]

I was wondering why his family must to go to Mexico to get him his birth cert. Could they not mail it faster thru one of the international carriers [[Fex Ed, USP etc.) but then if his only copy perhaps that's not a good idea.

[Jimaz]

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds,..."

— Ralph Waldo Emerson

[Richard]

I was wondering why his family must to go to Mexico to get him his birth cert. Could they not mail it faster thru one of the international carriers [[Fex Ed, USP etc.) but then if his only copy perhaps that's not a good idea.

Well,it is Mexico where it takes a 6 month wait to get a phone installed in the house.

You can send money there in less then 5 seconds but to get his birth certificate it is probably stuck back in a box somewhere in the midst of millions of others,everything gov related there is pretty much go to the office and wait for months and months,lots of mid wives and no records,but a few dollars slipped under the table gets results.

But a birth certificate has value,so even when shipped through international carriers It would probably get lost,hence must be in person.

[Wesley Mouch]

To be unbiased they can now go interview the millions of immigrants that came to this country legally,a foreign land,no family support,not knowing the system or even speaking the common language,but yet they survived and prospered.

In this situation where his family can join him and live very comfortable there on the disability check who would even think twice about not haveing them join you?

It is his decision to stay in his room that his aunt has provided and only come down for meals,it is his decision to not have his family join him,his wife is a citizen after being born here from parents being here illegally,the whole missing the kids aspect is a bit baffling.

He has options,just not the ones they are demanding.

Now he is going to spend the next couple of years fighting this and being separated from his family and creating a hardship that does not exist.

Sorry,bad example for a tear jerker.

Nah, much easier just to keep reporting this story. I wish that the US could simply open up to everybody, everywhere. But that's unrealistic. We can't let 10 people immigrate for every current citizen, can we? So we need rules. Better rules.

Trump's current plan is very reasonable. Path to citizenship for many who were brought here as children. Increase in border security. And a wall. Why is this a problem for the left? It isn't. They just prefer to pull the race card out and yell. Easier I guess than just admitting that sometimes Trump can make reasonable proposals. One that his base will hate. That's leadership. Saying 'no' to everything, as the Repubs did under Obama is childish and selfish.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Why can't we let in 10 for everyone of us etc.? Is that a repub/ 'bright'-bar' talking point? Why not!??

Hah. No, many are starting to reason it out, withstanding the visage of Trump. Ask an average blue collar or unemployed Detroiter if they want yet another soul to compete with on the job market and you'll get a resounding no. How trumpish...

....Yet, I doubt those feeling that way are right wingers. Hardly. This ain't Cali and ain't New York either... we're being dictated to by their politricks east and west coast in the middle along with rest of the crap.

In the mean time the narrative is that Trump cannot do anything remotely right, even if it might just be in our interest. He is the very embodiment of evil, so it goes. But thank you for you thoughtful words. Our country is going to be torn apart by this increasing gulf of reasoning.

[Kevgoblu]

Trump's current plan is very reasonable. Path to citizenship for many who were brought here as children. Increase in border security. And a wall. Why is this a problem for the left? It isn't. They just prefer to pull the race card out and yell. Easier I guess than just admitting that sometimes Trump can make reasonable proposals. One that his base will hate. That's leadership. Saying 'no' to everything, as the Repubs did under Obama is childish and selfish.

Maybe one day someone will come up with a good plan. Forego the wall. Cut back 50% on border patrol. Instead focus on businesses hiring these illegal immigrants. Given the disparity in socioeconomic levels between the countries there will always be people trying to come here and work. There's no down side to it. In the worst case scenerio, if they get caught and deported, then they're back in the situation they are in now. But for the guy who owns Mr. Roof.... there's a downside to him for getting caught. Most likely he doesn't want a suite next to Kwame.

[Bham1982]

Maybe one day someone will come up with a good plan. Forego the wall. Cut back 50% on border patrol. Instead focus on businesses hiring these illegal immigrants. Given the disparity in socioeconomic levels between the countries there will always be people trying to come here and work.

No, that will never happen. Makes way too much sense.

And Trump needs illegals. He needs to demonize immigrants and minorities to keep his rabid base angry and militant.

Here's a fact Trump will never tell anyone: illegal crossings on the southern border have actually risen during his Presidency. His cult will dismiss it as fakenews.

[Richard]

Even the ones hanging out in front of the box stores are asking for $100 a day for unskilled general labor,we have them stop by looking for employment and they are also looking or demanding a competitive wage.

The days of cheap labor or doing jobs that Americans will not do is a null argument,even in agriculture machines are replacing a lot of that labor.

If they actually went after the taxes aspect verses the illegal aspect then the situation will change,but in the case of the credit bureau that got hacked for 150 million persons information,that is at least 30 million that will have a ghost SS number to appear legal.

Corperations are a entity,so you can fine them etc. but you cannot send the corperations to jail,it makes it a bit difficult to hold individuals accountable,going after big companies that can pay big fines is more productive under the currant system.

But that is why the entire immigration system needs overhauling verses bandaids to appease voters.

[Richard]

No, that will never happen. Makes way too much sense.

And Trump needs illegals. He needs to demonize immigrants and minorities to keep his rabid base angry and militant.

Here's a fact Trump will never tell anyone: illegal crossings on the southern border have actually risen during his Presidency. His cult will dismiss it as fakenews.

Nice try,ICE posts the stats and numbers on their site,The currant president does not to have to say anything,common sense would direct anybody to the site and look at the facts.

Why do you spread fake news?

Here is from 1960 to 2017 that shows over 100 thousand less border arrests from the previous year.

Look closely at the last 8 years were it was up Sometimes over 300,000 from today's numbers.

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/fi...-%20FY2017.pdf

[Bham1982]

Nice try,ICE posts the stats and numbers on their site,
Why do you spread fake news?

See what I mean? The Trump cult will never waiver in support of the Dear Leader. Truth has no relevance.

Despite what the Cult claims, illegal border crossings are on the rise. Reality is "fake news" according to the Cult. As Trump always brags "I love the uneducated".

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/10/polit...ect/index.html

[Richard]

See what I mean? The Trump cult will never waiver in support of the Dear Leader. Truth has no relevance.

Despite what the Cult claims, illegal border crossings are on the rise. Reality is "fake news" according to the Cult. As Trump always brags "I love the uneducated".

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/10/polit...ect/index.html

Yes,your president loves you.

2017 president gets elected on the platform of enforcing immigration at the border,border crossing numbers are down.

See how that worked and was reported across all median,good guy sticking to his word.

2018 now the push to build the wall,media is now reporting that border crossing has dramatically increased.

Kinda hard to push for a wall when the evidence was showing a large decrease in border arrests and the danger has decreased.

But noooooo Trump supporters are idiots,see how it is easy to manipulate and distract,while you are obsessed with dumb Trump supporters the wall gets built,because you took your eye off of the prize.

Every day media blasts tearjerker stories of deportations and it is pretty clear that now is not the best time to be here illegally.

So everybody gets together and says hey let's jump the border?

Illeagle border crossings are subject to many things and are fluid from year to year.

If it looks like DACA passes then you will see a large increase because of that message being sent.

If there is a high rate of interior deportations then that message is one of the odds of remaining here are slim,so no need to take the chance.

You keep useing the word truth when it is connected to politics,we are all pawns in that game and our job as a pawn is to do what it takes to put food on the table,educate our children,and to put the best interests of our fellow Americans first and foremost,if one cannot be a good little pawn then kick the bus driver a few bucks and he will drop you off on the other side.

You are useing CNN as an example of trying to discredit the currant president but they are actually helping him to build a case.

CNN reported border crossings have dramatically increased,all the more reason to build the wall to stop the increase.

You just got played by your trusted news source,now what,a trip to Disney World to celebrate?

[oladub]

Supply/demand: As unemployment rates go down in the U.S., the demand for workers, any workers, increases. The reward for sneaking into the U.S. increases. More hopeful workers sneak in. As Kevgoblu mentioned, there is little downside for employers who hire illegal non-citizens. Neither party is suggesting that employer penalties be considered in current naturalization discussions. Even E-verify seems to have been cut from the discussion. Massive walls are stupid though. Corrupt Chinese officials opened the gates to Mongol invaders making the China Wall useless. The next time we elect another Bush or Obama, Trump's wall will similarly become useless against economic invaders. Even Israel relies more on fences than walls. Going after cheating employers while emphasizing fences rather than more expensive walls seems reasonable. One would think that employer penalties would be a great bargaining point for Democrats who traditionally sided with [[U.S.) workers and against management.

[Wesley Mouch]

^^^ Why can't we let in 10 for everyone of us etc.? Is that a repub/ 'bright'-bar' talking point? Why not!??

...snip...

I don't know if its a talking point. Read somewhere that the number of people who could reasonably expect to immigrate to the west was at least in the 800 million range. There are a lot of people living in 'shitholes', and given the chance I'd move to the US from most of the non-western world as well.

It is obvious, regardless, that there is some limit to undocumented immigration. Europe's taken what, 1 million. Could they take 5? Or 20? Or 200? The Repub position is that we need control. That was the Democratic position until recently, too. Now, they seem to be arguing that any limits are not reasonable.

But doesn't there have to be a limit when the potential volume of immigrants is limited only by a wall in Hungary and some big bodies of water?