China dumping solar panels in US market

[Det_ard]

China's selling us solar panels at below cost? Thank you, my sino-friends, for helping us decrease our reliance on polluting sources of energy. I don't see any European or North American companies helping us reduce our carbon footprint by selling their products below cost.

[gibran]

I really understand the concept of Foreign Companies manufacturing here for reduced trade and manufacturing restrictions. However, when we build cars in Canada or Mexico, isn't that similar practices...we have moved into the Global Market without protection... guess it is like going to Thailand and coming back with a disease and blaming the prostitute for our behavior. This free market disaster only works in the minds of those who are "profit at all cost driven." "AINT NO TRICKLE DOWN GOING ON HERE", AND the rest of us realize we are up against different levels of competition that is hard to keep up with. That is, unless we have a totaly revamp system...we are losing ground as an economic powerhouse [[thats ok for Randians for they will justify profits made in the third world as good for business).. China and their slave labor will always beat our Union workers and living wages that keep up with our advancements and standards of living..but it is again those who a claim to be American patriots who also support unregulated free market corrections and shipping our lives over seas...

I don't want Chinese to starve nor the Indians...but they can create regional markets and still be progressive. We are becoming a country that is going to primarily based in supporting a military industry [[thus needing to justfy conflcits) and service related jobs.. and if you think we will be the design kings for long think again....

Who suffers...the poor and those who are regionally restricted...of course the pull yourself up crowd will say they have choices...[[true) but at what cost?

We need to figure out an leveler..soon

[ccbatson]

Puzzle me this...how many carbon credits does it take to equal the toxic effects of the cadmium in one solar panel?

Careful now, this is a trick question.

[gazhekwe]

CC raises the straw man. Again.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "US based manufacturing"?"

The phrase fosters visions of US investment groups backing industry, providing jobs, reinvestment of said capital back in to the US. The reality is when Asian companies build factories here it is to circumnavigate US trade law and deny the US any import duties we deserve. They are just Asian companies building manufacturing facilities that we taxpayers will subsidize and they will take their profit back to Asia with them. And the stupid among us see no problem with this scenario and exclaim "Yeah but they are creating jobs".

So are the importers unloading cargo-tainers from Chinese ships in California. They provide jobs too. No future in them, but they are jobs for today. Seems our whole dam country is being ran that way. Worrying about this week, and screw next month. Cash for clunkers another fine example.

Read the article man. They basically came right our and said why they are building here. They know there is anti-Chinese sentiment, because a few of us, like myself, can see what they are doing. Talk about "Naive", read the article.

[ccbatson]

Come on Gaz, let's see which liberal falls for it and have a laugh.

[PCE]

[quote=ccbatson;60054]That, my friend, is a great example of MY point...a novelty, at best.

While I respect your opinion, I strongly disagree with it. I live about 40 miles from the nearest grid hook up. The words you are reading are generated from the sun. I live in a regular house with most of the same things you would find in a grid application. For a second put the whole global warming thing aside. What would be the problem with having a cohesive energy policy? We have been talking about it since Nixon was president. Imagine if Packard and St. Cyril's were pumping out solar panels for the country. Instead, as the OP points out, the Chinese are going to manufacture them for us.
As far as cadmium recovery, it sounds like a business opportunity to me.
Please don't read anything political in my statements. Both parties have sold us down the river in my opinion.
I am old enough that I probably won't see our demise.
I wonder what this country will be like for my grandchildren.I pray for my country every day.

[PCE]

PS. Have you ever seen an electric meter spin backwards? It's really cool!

[Reptiman]

Great article! Yet there is another aspect to Chinese solar which is very threatening besides dumping, employment, and environmental costs. Yes, Suntech will hurt the industry, job sector, and the already toxic air in China- but it will hurt the US tax payer through involuntary utility costs, and aid an even greater deficit..

Remember, the renewable energy market in the US, specifically solar, is a heavily subsidized market for the consumer. In many cases the consumer will receive up to 50% of the total costs covered by rebates, tax incentives, and federal tax credits. Remember that stimulus bill which was passed to stimulate our economy? Well, when it comes to the cost of installing solar on your home, you will have to pay half of that cost in solar panels [[half of which is subsidized in some form or another.)

This means that for every customer the Chinese manufacturer gains, the US tax payer accounts for half of this profit. It doesn't take an economy professor to know that money borrowed from China to stimulate our economy, while govt. are sneaking "solar" bills through congress in our sleep, which gets redistributed back into China through Solar is only creating an even larger deficit. It's throwing money at a solution, which is really "the problem" to begin with.

According to Joseph Fleshman at the Califonia Energy Commission, it is OK for Chinese manufacturers to allow "branches" to open up in the US with different names, product model numbers, logos, and to falsely advertise their product as their "own" brand. He says that as long as a company, such as Centron Solar [[www.centronsolar.com) receives a multiple-listee letter from the manufacturer in China they are allowed to "privately label" their product. Of course these 3rd party companies are all from China also.

This means that if company X, Y, and Z privately label a specific solar panel from manufacturer A, there is a 4x duplication of the exact same product, all claiming to be their "own" brand. To take this scenario further, if you will, add company Q, P, R and you have a 7x duplication of the same solar panel all claiming to be different. Add 10 more model numbers from manufacturer A, and you you have even greater duplication. Then add 10 more manufacturers to the mix and you can quickly see that there is an exponential relationship in the growth of misrepresentation of Chinese solar products. How should this be accepted by CEC, who sets the greater example for other states when it comes to solar??

Demand some answers:
Joseph Fleshman
California Energy Commission
Renewables Call Center
Ph. 916-654-4562
Fax. 916-653-2543

[lilpup]

Funny, I see that as China finding a market because we have a huge gap between supply and demand in this area. To me it is a failure on our part to step up and work the market, which would have resulted in more jobs here rather than having China fill the void and make the money.

No, China didn't "find" a market. If they had they could sell their product at cost or for profit instead of dumping it. The founder and CEO of the Chinese company specifically stated the intent of dumping is "to build market share" i.e. to intentionally run existing market competition out of business.

This means that if company X, Y, and Z privately label a specific solar panel from manufacturer A, there is a 4x duplication of the exact same product, all claiming to be their "own" brand. To take this scenario further, if you will, add company Q, P, R and you have a 7x duplication of the same solar panel all claiming to be different. Add 10 more model numbers from manufacturer A, and you you have even greater duplication. Then add 10 more manufacturers to the mix and you can quickly see that there is an exponential relationship in the growth of misrepresentation of Chinese solar products. How should this be accepted by CEC, who sets the greater example for other states when it comes to solar??

Wow, are you new to the business world?? And what is it with Westerners thinking California's BS regulatory bodies are so great while the state still exemplifies American piggy consumer/cater to the wealthy behavior?