New York terrorist driving truck kills many - wounds others....

[Zacha341]

The news on this is going to shape-shift greatly. These early reports speak to what is being stated today [[10/31).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...Manhattan.html

8 Dead as Truck Careens Down Bike Path in Manhattan in Terror Attack

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/31/n...manhattan.html

Note found in truck claims Manhattan attack done for ISIS, source says

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/31/us/new...red/index.html

[bust]

Time until the president cynically co-opts this detestable act to push his agenda, opposed by the vast majority of New Yorkers: 3… 2… Oh, it already happened.

Time until many other Republicans do it too: 3… 2…

[Richard]

Time until the president cynically co-opts this detestable act to push his agenda, opposed by the vast majority of New Yorkers: 3… 2… Oh, it already happened.

Time until many other Republicans do it too: 3… 2…

So the next time you see one yelling Allahu Akbar jump in front of them with a nice hug and tell them welcome to America,let us know how that goes.

They could care less about republicans or democrats or Bernie,they just want you dead.You understand that,right?

Now go to New York and tell the families that lost their loved ones today that it was okay for their sacrifice because everybody should have a chance to come to this country and kill at will.

They were just collateral damage in the bigger picture of things I guess.

[bust]

So the next time you see one yelling Allahu Akbar jump in front of them with a nice hug and tell them welcome to America,let us know how that goes.

They could care less about republicans or democrats or Bernie,they just want you dead.You understand that,right?

Now go to New York and tell the families that lost their loved ones today that it was okay for their sacrifice because everybody should have a chance to come to this country and kill at will.

They were just collateral damage in the bigger picture of things I guess.

I've lived several more years in NYC than I have in Metro Detroit.
I worked one block away from the World Trade Center when it was attacked in 2001.
Once our building reopened I needed a police escort to walk past the ruins to get to work.
I have friends and family who work within a few blocks of where the attack occurred today.
Some guy from Florida who can't tell the difference between fringe right conspiracy theories and legitimate journalism telling this New Yorker about terrorism: Stop!

[Honky Tonk]

I've lived several more years in NYC than I have in Metro Detroit.
I worked one block away from the World Trade Center when it was attacked in 2001.
Once our building reopened I needed a police escort to walk past the ruins to get to work.
I have friends and family who work within a few blocks of where the attack occurred today.
Some guy from Florida who can't tell the difference between fringe right conspiracy theories and legitimate journalism telling this New Yorker about terrorism: Stop!

Well that certainly qualifies you as an expert on terrorism.

[aj3647]

Shouldn't we "wait until all the facts are in" and not "rush to judgment?" Isn't it "too soon after the attack to start talking about policy changes?" Because that was the default response after the Las Vegas attack. What's different about the man who committed this attack compared to the man who committed the Las Vegas massacre that we would react so differently to the attack?

Shouldn't you guys just be offering up some lip-service platitudes like "thoughts and prayers to the victims" and not politicize this tragedy? Or do we only do that in certain terrorist incidents when the attacker is of a certain skin hue?

[Richard]

I've lived several more years in NYC than I have in Metro Detroit.
I worked one block away from the World Trade Center when it was attacked in 2001.
Once our building reopened I needed a police escort to walk past the ruins to get to work.
I have friends and family who work within a few blocks of where the attack occurred today.
Some guy from Florida who can't tell the difference between fringe right conspiracy theories and legitimate journalism telling this New Yorker about terrorism: Stop!

lol some people support terrorism and others do not,you clearly support them because it is a means to an end.

So you are a few blocks away,that makes it easy,walk over there a tell the victims thank you for your sacrifice because it was necessary in the bigger picture.

Why are you not working for the intelligence agencies ?

You are an expert in Terrorism,right wing conspiracy,and journalism.

If you notice your buddies that flew the planes,the one that drove the truck,the one that shot up Pulse all came from where?

Florida.

Because Florida is the bleeding heart dumping grounds for everybody that does not care about thier fellow Americans as long as it does not happen to them.

Well congratulations you have welcomed,encouraged and paved the way for jihad on American soil,the blood is on the hands of their supporters in the United States that rally cry on thier behalf.

I think that those Americans are more of a terrorist threat then the ones doing the driving.

They are aiding and abetting.

It is no difference if one is standing there with a loaded gun,in front of them are two people one an American and the other a terrorist.

Some feel that it is better to shoot the American so they can give the other one a better chance in the land of the free.

[bust]

As usual, your intelligence is…
Stunning.
Shurely you intend no houmor.
Have you percieved people laughing?
Almost everyone else is onto it.
Triplelol!

[Zacha341]

Vehicles as weapons - Part of a deadly trend

The list seems to be growing, especially in Europe. And now here.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/22/world/...ons/index.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...end/819485001/

[Honky Tonk]

Vehicles as weapons - Part of a deadly trend

The list seems to be growing, especially in Europe. And now here.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/22/world/...ons/index.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...end/819485001/

Wait until the acid baths start.

[Zacha341]

IMO, most of these tragedies are greatly politicized, emphasized or de-emphasized. The only seeming variable being as to which politic, and agenda served! I do agree that the Vegas incident has fallen strangely a bit too silent.

In all of these cases here and abroad, families are devastated, innocent people are dead. Their silence permanent while the chess pieces are pushed about.

[carolcb]

Shesh, you have lost me. I just want him in the cell next to that Roof kid from Charleston, and while they still have time on this earth, they can regret what they have done and reflect on democracy and what this country stands for.....they are both murderers and should be treated as such - not that I am for the death penalty, but we have one, and clearly they are the lowest of the low. I would be okay with the guy from yesterday being in prison for the rest of his life since he so wanted to die - or so we are told.

[coracle]

“What's different about the man who committed this attack compared to the man who committed the Las Vegas massacre that we would react so differently to the attack?”

We could have stopped this Muslim entering America if we didn’t have the stupid “Diversity Visa” supported by Schumer.

[bust]

That was an uncharacteristic response on my part, I'll admit. [[Look closely.)
But as we've seen too often, when it comes to politics and public policy any attempt at an elevated discussion with Richard descends quickly.
No point trying.

[Richard]

That was an uncharacteristic response on my part, I'll admit. [[Look closely.)
But as we've seen too often, when it comes to politics and public policy any attempt at an elevated discussion with Richard descends quickly.
No point trying.

What needs to be elevated in the discussion?

The immigrants of today are far different then the immigrants that helped build this country,so it needs to be looked at differently.

I live in a heavy immigrant community,from all corners of the globe,75% of the people that I deal with on a daily basis have been in this country less then 5 years.

Two common denominators.

1 they are shocked that they actually have to work hard to get ahead,because thier impression of this country before coming here was that we are a rich country and everybody lives in a big house and drives a new car without having to work for it.

2 The majority,not all,has no loyalty to this country,they are here for one reason and one reason only,to make money,and they have a right to that.

Most of them feel like a cashier should be making the same monies as skilled labor and as they are coming from a poor country they should be able to pay everybody what they feel is right based on zero research or knowlage of how our system works.

When an American born citizen has to bear more scrutiny to prove that they are citizens then certain immigrants,there is a problem.

The solution is easy,just pick how many Americans are worth sacrificing in order to have infrettered access to this country.

The reality is there is no middle ground,it is thier job to kill everybody that they do not agree with and our job to prevent them from doing that.

That is thier job 24/7 365 to figure out how to kill as many as possible,why is that such a hard thing to grasp.

It is our personal responsibility as Americans to put our country and our fellow Americans first and foremost,it is the duty of the federal government to protect our borders and in turn protect United States citizens.

If people have a problem with that then they need to seriously think about where thier loyalties lie or maybe it is time to find another country,good luck with that considering we do have some of the most liberal immigration policies and penalties around.

So now because NY has a gun ban the next step is to ban airplanes and Home Depot trucks with high capacity fuel tanks,that should make everybody safe,right ?

Are you listening to your own police chief when he talks about how many attacks they have prevented so far,this is not just a random event,there is an ongoing assault across the country.

[canuck]

What needs to be elevated in the discussion?

The immigrants of today are far different then the immigrants that helped build this country,so it needs to be looked at differently.

I live in a heavy immigrant community,from all corners of the globe,75% of the people that I deal with on a daily basis have been in this country less then 5 years.

Two common denominators.

1 they are shocked that they actually have to work hard to get ahead,because thier impression of this country before coming here was that we are a rich country and everybody lives in a big house and drives a new car without having to work for it.

2 The majority,not all,has no loyalty to this country,they are here for one reason and one reason only,to make money,and they have a right to that.

Most of them feel like a cashier should be making the same monies as skilled labor and as they are coming from a poor country they should be able to pay everybody what they feel is right based on zero research or knowlage of how our system works.

When an American born citizen has to bear more scrutiny to prove that they are citizens then certain immigrants,there is a problem.

The solution is easy,just pick how many Americans are worth sacrificing in order to have infrettered access to this country.

The reality is there is no middle ground,it is thier job to kill everybody that they do not agree with and our job to prevent them from doing that.

That is thier job 24/7 365 to figure out how to kill as many as possible,why is that such a hard thing to grasp.

It is our personal responsibility as Americans to put our country and our fellow Americans first and foremost,it is the duty of the federal government to protect our borders and in turn protect United States citizens.

If people have a problem with that then they need to seriously think about where thier loyalties lie or maybe it is time to find another country,good luck with that considering we do have some of the most liberal immigration policies and penalties around.

So now because NY has a gun ban the next step is to ban airplanes and Home Depot trucks with high capacity fuel tanks,that should make everybody safe,right ?

Are you listening to your own police chief when he talks about how many attacks they have prevented so far,this is not just a random event,there is an ongoing assault across the country.

That’s a hell of a lot of cashiers wanting to kill you Richard, be careful steppin’ out of that there pickup truck...

Don’t want to rain on your parade but, watch out for non immigrant types doing damage without the high capacity fuel tanks you mentioned in Small town Texas. Heck, they may be fair skinned and 2nd amendment lovers after all. Who knows. it’s a complicated whirled.

[oladub]

That’s a hell of a lot of cashiers wanting to kill you Richard, be careful steppin’ out of that there pickup truck...

Don’t want to rain on your parade but, watch out for non immigrant types doing damage without the high capacity fuel tanks you mentioned in Small town Texas. Heck, they may be fair skinned and 2nd amendment lovers after all. Who knows. it’s a complicated whirled.

It was another white guy who checked the box to indicate he didn't have disqualifying criminal history when he filled out the background check paperwork. Actually he did have a disqualifying criminal history as he was kicked out of the Air Force for beating up his wife and kid but he lied. The neighbor with a gun did more good than background check gun legislation in this case. I wonder if the white guy from Uzbekistan lied about the 23 other Uzbeks he decided to let in to the US actually being his close relatives. That's quite a system; allowing Islamic terrorists chosen in a lottery choose 23 additional immigrants of their own choice. It must make sense to Democrats. DNA tests only cost about $100 but our government chooses to look the other way. No one in government vets the background gun paperwork or the chain immigration immigrants very carefully.

Of course killing 8 people with a rent-a-truck isn't so bad compared with killing 3,000 with boxcutters and airliners or eventually much larger numbers with WMDs. Therein lies a difference. We can be fairly confident that right wing nuts or crazies who want to take out an abortion clinic or shoot up country music fans for reasons unknown wouldn't use backpack nukes if they could get their hands on them. Mohammed Atta probably would have. Just as we didn't anticipate three planes flying into buildings on 9/11, the left seems unable and unwilling to anticipate something much bigger.

[aj3647]

That's quite a system; allowing Islamic terrorists chosen in a lottery choose 23 additional immigrants of their own choice. It must make sense to Democrats.

The 1990 Immigration Act [[which contained the diversity visa lottery program) had bipartisan support [[it got a 89-8 vote in the Senate) and was signed into law by Republican President George HW Bush. But yeah, it was just the Democrats. They're the only ones that voted for it, right? And that Democrat Bush signed it into law! Mitch McConnell voted for it too, back in 1990. Remind me again what position he holds today?

Of course killing 8 people with a rent-a-truck isn't so bad compared with killing 3,000 with boxcutters and airliners or eventually much larger numbers with WMDs. Therein lies a difference. We can be fairly confident that right wing nuts or crazies who want to take out an abortion clinic or shoot up country music fans for reasons unknown wouldn't use backpack nukes if they could get their hands on them. Mohammed Atta probably would have. Just as we didn't anticipate three planes flying into buildings on 9/11, the left seems unable and unwilling to anticipate something much bigger.

On what insane grounds can you sit there and assert that the Las Vegas shooter wouldn't have used a backpack nuke if he had access to one? It's plainly obvious his goal was to kill as many people as he could before he died himself. But yeah, it's only Muslims who would use such weapons if they had the chance, right?

Remember that prior to 9/11, the largest death toll from a terror attack on American soil was thanks to radical Right Wing white extremist named Timothy McVeigh, who used a Ryder truck full of ammonium nitrate. You think he wouldn't have used a nuke if he could have?

The notion that only Muslims could do such a thing is total 100% bullshit. Remember the 2001 anthrax attacks? A white dude did that.

[Zacha341]

The optics during and in the aftermath of the violence, especially for New Yorkers may cut thru partisan politics, even ala a eh' 'conservative' tabloid!

http://nypost.com/cover/covers-for-november-1-2017/

One the other hand, particular to the case of Saipov [[who's alive and 'talking' unlike Paddock) even CNN has to report-out:

New York terror suspect wanted ISIS flag in hospital, documents show

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/02/us/new...ack/index.html

[lpg]

And once again, media coverage of this act has given these people a stage and the ability to be heard and seen around the world. How many others are inspired to do the same ?

[Richard]

It kinda breaks it down a little bit into groups.

One enters the country with the sole intention of mass destruction,which we can control and the other group that is already here but inspired,which we cannot control.

So are they inspired useing the cause as a way to fit in and seeking thier 15 minutes or are they inspired because they discovered that different leval of religion.

It is kinda no different in Christianity,other then the killing aspect,some discover religion and thier whole way of life changes on how they live it.

I do find the media biased and hyped,10 people killed in a terrorist attack gains worldwide attention but 10 people killed in a weekend of inner city violence receives not a peep outside of the local paper.

http://sheikyermami.com/2017/10/swed...ming-collapse/

[Zacha341]

Remembering the victims of the NY attack...

[Richard]

I think the point was if we cannot vet an American citizen with a life long history how is it expected to vet somebody else from a foreign country with no records.

What was the death toll at the Branch Dravidian?

At this rate, Chicago is expected to see 3,600 to 4,200 people shot in 3,200-3,500 shootings by the end of the year.

[Zacha341]

That pesky little detail does seem to emerge doesn't it?

I think the point was if we cannot vet an American citizen with a life long history how is it expected to vet somebody else from a foreign country with no records.