Welcome to Bernie/Independent/Third Party Land

[Richard]

Yet economists and statisticians continue to prove that curbing the giant boondoggle of defense spending, perheps coupled with reversing the wasteful tax cuts given to the 1% in this country, make those aforementioned benefits viable.

Meanwhile... the national debt just eclipsed $21 trillion under Trumps watch. And yet we hear only crickets from the right, when they were the loudest proponents towards curbing gov't spending during, well... any of the last democrats tenure in office. What happened to all the outrage? Don't answer that - we all know what hypocrisy is at this point.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/under-d...rst-time-ever/

I'm all for infrastructure spending. It provides jobs and makes our country great. Every president soap boxes on it, but that's typically the last you hear of it. And the gov't crony contracts continue to roll out instead.

One thing you'll get from Bernie [[and his party) is consistency. He says what he means, and means what he thinks. You simply can not find that common decency in any other party or candidate anymore. Is it any wonder that we've reached a point where public servants are being hounded and berated in public now? There is no blood left to squeeze from this rock.

I think Bernie speaks from the heart and has good intentions but as par to the course it is easy to soapbox free,but what are his solutions outside of funding the military and forcing private corporations to pay everybody equally,it is just not going to happen without going socialist,all of those decades in office and outside of the socialist party,he is still where he was 40 years ago,there is a reason why that is.

Nobody is holding a gun to the head of those berating public officials in public,they are supposed to be adults and responsible for their actions.

It is their decision to show the true colors of those who do not get their way,it does not say anything about the current president,it just shows how most feel they are not accountable for their personal actions.

If you want to act like a idiot in public,that is on you,at least man up or woman up and not point and cry...He made me do it.

[TKshreve]

I think Bernie speaks from the heart and has good intentions but as par to the course it is easy to soapbox free,but what are his solutions outside of funding the military and forcing private corporations to pay everybody equally,it is just not going to happen without going socialist,all of those decades in office and outside of the socialist party,he is still where he was 40 years ago,there is a reason why that is.

Nobody is holding a gun to the head of those berating public officials in public,they are supposed to be adults and responsible for their actions.

It is their decision to show the true colors of those who do not get their way,it does not say anything about the current president,it just shows how most feel they are not accountable for their personal actions.

If you want to act like a idiot in public,that is on you,at least man up or woman up and not point and cry...He made me do it.

If we had things your way, we'd still be a colony of England. Very forward thinking of you. Your complacency is so tiring.

[GMan]

Yet economists and statisticians continue to prove that curbing the giant boondoggle of defense spending, perheps coupled with reversing the wasteful tax cuts given to the 1% in this country, make those aforementioned benefits viable.

Meanwhile... the national debt just eclipsed $21 trillion under Trumps watch. And yet we hear only crickets from the right, when they were the loudest proponents towards curbing gov't spending during, well... any of the last democrats tenure in office. What happened to all the outrage? Don't answer that - we all know what hypocrisy is at this point.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/under-d...rst-time-ever/

I'm all for infrastructure spending. It provides jobs and makes our country great. Every president soap boxes on it, but that's typically the last you hear of it. And the gov't crony contracts continue to roll out instead.

One thing you'll get from Bernie [[and his party) is consistency. He says what he means, and means what he thinks. You simply can not find that common decency in any other party or candidate anymore. Is it any wonder that we've reached a point where public servants are being hounded and berated in public now? There is no blood left to squeeze from this rock.

Yes get rid of the boondoggle of spending but not the military.
There is much wasteful spending but the left only eliminates it from the military so they can waste it on their own pet projects.
[[free college for all for example.) What will be the payback when all the students graduate with four year degrees and there are no jobs?
Today's students graduate with massive debt and then complain about the low income they can earn. Some expect 6 figures right out of school but the job market doesn't support this. The whole educational system is a business that needs to be re-structured. Investment should be in skilled trades jobs that can be achieved by people that want to work now. There is always a way for people who want more to go back to school and get another degree.

Infrastructure spending is needed but not on high price pet projects like high speed rail that gobbles up millions before a mile of track is laid, Green energy that can't support itself without a huge subsidy or expanded highways that are lobbied for by the contractors that get the government contract and then give us substandard surfaces that look pretty but don't last more than 3yrs.

Bernie is politician like the rest. Full of promises, short on substance and wealthy like his ilk.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Yes, Bernie promises alot and a shift of wealth from the click-and-tick to his audience. Only problem is that the same people remain rich and and wealthy!

[Richard]

^^^ Yes, Bernie promises alot and a shift of wealth from the click-and-tick to his audience. Only problem is that the same people remain rich and and wealthy!

For some reason I do not see Bernie giving up his wealth and actually walking the talk as they say,I guess you really do not have to,just convince others it is,in thier best interest to for the greater good.

[Jimaz]

What Is Bernie Sanders' Net Worth? Bernie Sanders is one of America's poorest senators.

[Pam]

What Is Bernie Sanders' Net Worth? Bernie Sanders is one of America's poorest senators.

Thanks Jim.

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsr...rkers-and-ceos-

Sen. Bernie Sanders [[I-Vt.) will host a livestreamed town hall Monday, July 16 to address the enormous disparity between the wealth of corporate executives and the wages and treatment of the companies’ workers. Sanders will be joined by workers from major U.S. corporations Amazon, Disney, McDonald’s and Walmart, and he has invited the CEO of each company to attend.....
"I hope these CEOs have the guts to sit on a panel with their own employees and explain why it's acceptable that they receive huge compensation packages while their very own workers are struggling to put food on the table," Sanders said. "I hope they have the courage to do so. The invitation is sincere."

In letters to Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos, Disney CEO Bob Iger, McDonald’s CEO Steve Easterbrook and Walmart CEO Doug McMillon, Sanders recounted testimonials from workers at each company who have struggled with issues like affording health care, being injured on the job, eviction and hunger as a result of low pay, difficult working conditions and lack of opportunity.

[Jimaz]

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsr...rkers-and-ceos-

Link repair:

Sanders to Host Live Town Hall with Workers and CEOs

The trailing hyphen in the URL broke the link.

[Pam]

Link repair:

Sanders to Host Live Town Hall with Workers and CEOs

The trailing hyphen in the URL broke the link.

Thanks again.

[oladub]

Bernie seems more honest, supports fewer wars, and isn't as closely tied to corporate interests as establishment Democrats. He should at least get credit for so many Democrats being honest enough to come out as socialists. His supporter, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortex, had a big primary victory over an establishment Democrat. Chuck Todd of NBC asked her for her definition of 'socialism'.
Her answer: "Well, for me, again, and – and – there’s so much focus on this endorsement, but I also think it's important -- an important part of my strategy in winning was building a broad-based coalition of people. So while there is a focus on this one aspect of the coalition, and to me, you know, to answer your question, the definition of democratic socialism, to me, again, is the fact that in a modern, moral, and wealthy society, no American should be too poor to live."

[TKshreve]

To assume that Bernie Sanders would need to disassociate from his earned and inherited wealth in order to support his message is a straw man all day. It is spin in its worst sense.

Not to mention the additional info above suggesting Sanders is not the tycoon that the right continues to push as their only contradicting message.

It's a sad road the right keeps travelling down when this situation continues to revert to this conversation, opposed to what should really be the central tenant of the discussion.

[Richard]

It has nothing to do with right,left or center or straw men,he is enjoying the very perks of capitalism that he campaigns against.

Warren Buffet a billionaire that campaigns for smart investmenting,lives in the same ranch house that he purchased over 50 years ago.

Some walk and some talk.

The mistake is thinking people are against Bernie,when they are not,this country is not now or will ever be a socialist country.It does not take a straw man to figure that out.

Interesting view on protesting against large corporations and looking for equality in pay from the top down,they are the ones providing employment.

Do the protesters form a group and invest thier money start a business and pay everybody equally,they can but they do not,why is that?

That would be common sense instead of a few million trying to convert an entire country to thier views.

Edited: Sweden is often used as an example of how things should work in a perfect world,but maybe not so much.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-welfare-state

Nationalists are gaining support as more people complain about the sustainability of the cradle-to-grave system.

[Bham1982]

It has nothing to do with right,left or center or straw men,he is enjoying the very perks of capitalism that he campaigns against.

When has Bernie campaigned against capitalism?

I don't like Bernie [[would never vote for a populist, on either side), but he advocates for a social welfare state, which is the same thing they have in basically every other first world nation on earth.

For some reason the Trump cult has successfully convinced many that those on the American Left are somehow analagous to Cold War-era Marxist-Lennist parties, which makes no sense. Bernie is a "normal" politican in most of the developed world. He advocates for subsidized college, medical care and the like, which is totally expected in every other society.

Somewhere like Germany, even the Far Right 100% endorses Bernie's social welfare state. For some reason, millions of working class and poor Americans are convinced that their family doesn't deserve a thing, while the plutocrats get wealthier off their misery.

Even weirder, the U.S. now has the wealthy/educated voting Dem and the poor/uneducated voting Rep. Trump has caused a total inversion, attracting uneducated whites while repelling educated whites, so you basically have the wealthy wanting higher taxes on themselves and more services for the working class, while the working class wants lower taxes on the wealthy and worse services for their families. Strange times.

[Richard]

When has Bernie campaigned against capitalism?

I don't like Bernie [[would never vote for a populist, on either side), but he advocates for a social welfare state, which is the same thing they have in basically every other first world nation on earth.

For some reason the Trump cult has successfully convinced many that those on the American Left are somehow analagous to Cold War-era Marxist-Lennist parties, which makes no sense. Bernie is a "normal" politican in most of the developed world. He advocates for subsidized college, medical care and the like, which is totally expected in every other society.

Somewhere like Germany, even the Far Right 100% endorses Bernie's social welfare state. For some reason, millions of working class and poor Americans are convinced that their family doesn't deserve a thing, while the plutocrats get wealthier off their misery.

Even weirder, the U.S. now has the wealthy/educated voting Dem and the poor/uneducated voting Rep. Trump has caused a total inversion, attracting uneducated whites while repelling educated whites, so you basically have the wealthy wanting higher taxes on themselves and more services for the working class, while the working class wants lower taxes on the wealthy and worse services for their families. Strange times.

I am not sure where you are getting your information from on Trump supporters but there are plenty of surveys out there that would disagree with you.


https://www.businessinsider.com/exit...linton-2016-11

Your pov of a vote for Trump was families saying that their families do not deserve anything kinda shows a strange outlook on life in America.

What exactly do you feel you deserve because you were born or fortunate enough to be in America?

We have rights and opportunities in this country that others risk death to have a chance at but we do not deserve anything for simply existing.

When you actually research what is happing in the developed world when it comes to social programs,immigration and other things anti Trump supporters are constantly being vocal about you will find they are all pretty much in the same direction that he is.

Even more so they are all struggling with the common denominator of figuring out how to pay for it all.

[Bham1982]

I am not sure where you are getting your information from on Trump supporters but there are plenty of surveys out there that would disagree with you.

Hillary beat Trump among college educated whites by 17%, which is the largest margin in modern history. In contrast, Trump beat Hillary among whites with high school education or less by 40%, which is also the largest margin in modern history.

The parties have completely inverted. Hillary easily won Birmingham-Bloomfield, which is crazy, considering all the old, fuddy-duddy conservative country club types. In contrast, Trump overwhelmingly won the union strongholds in Macomb, which is even crazier considering he's at war with their employers and unions.

When you actually research what is happing in the developed world when it comes to social programs,immigration and other things anti Trump supporters are constantly being vocal about you will find they are all pretty much in the same direction that he is.

This is [[obviously) wrong and irrelevant. Leaders like Merkel are quite popular and the opposite of Trump. Whether or not you think Germany, France, Japan, Australia all are eventually going to turn into Russian banana republics headed by racist, habitually lying lifelong grifters/reality show hosts is besides the point.

Even more so they are all struggling with the common denominator of figuring out how to pay for it all.

No, the U.S. is the one "figuring out how to pay for it all". We just slashed taxes on corporations, which is exploding the deficit. And corporate investment and wages have dropped under Trump, since the tax cut was all put into stock buybacks [[ie making the CEOs even richer). And Trump insisted on an idiotic military buildup, further bankrupting our future.

In contrast, places like Sweden and Germany have record surpluses and stronger economic growth than the U.S.

[Honky Tonk]

This is [[obviously) wrong and irrelevant. Leaders like Merkel are quite popular and the opposite of Trump. Whether or not you think Germany, France, Japan, Australia all are eventually going to turn into Russian banana republics headed by racist, habitually lying lifelong grifters/reality show hosts is besides the point.

https://www.dw.com/en/germans-unhapp...pat/a-44547346


https://www.dw.com/en/opinion-the-er...end/a-42045351

[Pam]

When has Bernie campaigned against capitalism?

I don't like Bernie [[would never vote for a populist, on either side), but he advocates for a social welfare state, which is the same thing they have in basically every other first world nation on earth.

For some reason the Trump cult has successfully convinced many that those on the American Left are somehow analagous to Cold War-era Marxist-Lennist parties, which makes no sense. Bernie is a "normal" politican in most of the developed world. He advocates for subsidized college, medical care and the like, which is totally expected in every other society.

Somewhere like Germany, even the Far Right 100% endorses Bernie's social welfare state. For some reason, millions of working class and poor Americans are convinced that their family doesn't deserve a thing, while the plutocrats get wealthier off their misery.

Even weirder, the U.S. now has the wealthy/educated voting Dem and the poor/uneducated voting Rep. Trump has caused a total inversion, attracting uneducated whites while repelling educated whites, so you basically have the wealthy wanting higher taxes on themselves and more services for the working class, while the working class wants lower taxes on the wealthy and worse services for their families. Strange times.

Actually there is wide support for Bernie's ideas. He could have won if the DNC hadn't cheated. He also could have beat Trump.

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2...-left-policies

[Bham1982]

Actually there is wide support for Bernie's ideas. He could have won if the DNC hadn't cheated. He also could have beat Trump.

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2...-left-policies

No one claimed there wasn't "wide support for Bernie's ideas", the DNC didn't "cheat", obviously, Hillary beat Bernie by a wide margin, and no one knows if Bernie would have beaten Trump [[I suspect no - if Bernie were the candidate Trump would have painted him as a Commie and the cult would have stayed faithful).

[Pam]

Discussion of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez appearance on CNN.



https://youtu.be/eVqLkxvGQTE

[Jimaz]

Discussion of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez appearance on CNN.

https://youtu.be/eVqLkxvGQTE

Watch her opponent blink and gulp. LOL!

[Pam]

Yes the Dems cheated. Here are some examples.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2016/07...llary-cheated/

Bernie was filling stadiums while Hillary couldn't fill a high school gym.

https://youtu.be/yJNDTAo1PkQ

[Bham1982]

Yes the Dems cheated. Here's some examples.

No, the Dems didn't "cheat". I'm not clicking on some spammy fringe troll link.

Bernie was filling stadiums while Hillary couldn't fill a high school gym.

Putting aside the fact that this is nonsense, has zero to do with anything. You don't ascertain relative vote totals by measuring rally crowd size, as if Honey Boo Boo would win more votes than Angela Merkel because she could fill a mud-pit in Livingston with more onlookers.

And it doesn't even make any sense. Assuming your wacky conspiracy is correct, and the DNC secretly worked to undermine the more popular candidate, then the obvious question is "why in the hell would the DNC want to lose the Presidency". Time for another conspiracy, I guess. Maybe aliens? Bigfoot?

But your responses do offer insight into why Bernie would have been a potentially dangerous candidate - his rhetoric is basically the same as Trump [[populist tripe with no regard for facts or reality) and his supporters are often cult-like and desperate for simple solutions to complex questions.

[Pam]

No, the Dems didn't "cheat". I'm not clicking on some spammy fringe troll link.



Putting aside the fact that this is nonsense, has zero to do with anything. You don't ascertain relative vote totals by measuring rally crowd size, as if Honey Boo Boo would win more votes than Angela Merkel because she could fill a mud-pit in Livingston with more onlookers.

And it doesn't even make any sense. Assuming your wacky conspiracy is correct, and the DNC secretly worked to undermine the more popular candidate, then the obvious question is "why in the hell would the DNC want to lose the Presidency". Time for another conspiracy, I guess. Maybe aliens? Bigfoot?

But your responses do offer insight into why Bernie would have been a potentially dangerous candidate - his rhetoric is basically the same as Trump [[populist tripe with no regard for facts or reality) and his supporters are often cult-like and desperate for simple solutions to complex questions.

Counterpunch is a well known alternative media site. It's not spam.

There is way more evidence for the DNC cheating Bernie than the Russiagate fairy tale which you believe. There were 20 -some states with documented voting issues, all of which benefited Hillary. Donna Brazile admitted to stealing debate questions for Hillary. Superdelegates alone are unfair. Bernie won the Democratic primary in Michigan but none of the superdelegates voted for him. etc. etc.

As for why they cheated- Hillary was the pre-selected candidate that represents the interests of the corporate donors. They didn't think she could lose to Trump.

What does Bernie say that isn't reality? Every other major country on the face of the earth has national healthcare except us. The middle class is shrinking. Politicians work for corporate donors before people. These are all real. I'm not a member of a "cult". I've been a regular Democratic voter for decades. They have become too corrupt and too right wing for the most part. Bernie represented to me what they should be.

Here's another link that you probably won't click. I've posted it before.
A report on election problems in 2016:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/elect...23891901070837

[Bham1982]

Counterpunch is a well known alternative media site. It's not spam.

There is way more evidence for the DNC cheating Bernie than the Russiagate fairy tale which you believe.

There is zero evidence for your wild claim. None. It makes as much sense as bigfoot in a UFO. The DNC's goal is to win the Presidency, obviously. They are not in a conspiracy to elect Trump.

Russiagate is 100% confirmed fact, supported by every U.S. intelligence agency. In case you haven't noticed, the largest criminal investigation in Presidential history is underway, and there are already more indictments than under Watergate.

If you deny reality, that's on you. Can't fix crazy.

[Honky Tonk]

Yes the Dems cheated. Here are some examples.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2016/07...llary-cheated/

Bernie was filling stadiums while Hillary couldn't fill a high school gym.

https://youtu.be/yJNDTAo1PkQ

Great photo of her.