Welcome to Bernie/Independent/Third Party Land

**Zacha341** · February-26-20, 01:42 PM

I almost dig the Medicare-for-all promise. Can we as an option fix the EXISTING Medicare debt in the mean time?

Some how?

Before we start adding more people!

**Richard** · February-26-20, 02:19 PM

Anybody that thinks the government can handle healthcare for all just needs to look at how the VA has been run the last 50 years and that only represents 1/4 of the population at best.

**Canadian Visitor** · February-26-20, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

I almost dig the Medicare-for-all promise. Can we as an option fix the EXISTING Medicare debt in the mean time?

Some how?

Before we start adding more people!

Slight terminological correction. Medicare doesn't have debt; it has an unfunded liability.

The way in which Medicare has been set up is comparable to Social Security, as a pension-like system in which you put money aside every year for future costs not yet real.

The payroll deductions that fund Medicare have been inadequate for sometime.

The result, as more retirees qualify, the fund will be progressively short of money; likely running dry short of a full year in 2026.

Social Security was likewise underfunded, and this was address by approving transfers from the general budget each year in the SS Fund.

That same approval has not been made for Medicare.

The answer, however you get there, is that more revenue is required.

In respect of cost-reduction, there are clearly opportunities for that, though most require some willingness to force the costs of healthcare down [[that means lower profit margins, lower physician billings, and forcing down excessive drug prices, amongst other things.)

Admin. costs are excessive in US healthcare, but addressing that essentially requires Medicare for all, in one flavour or another. Its about a hospital going from 20 recognized insurers with whom they deal to only 1. Its about not requiring people to fill out a form every time they go to the hospital/er/doctor etc; its about driving out high-cost providers.

That's very hard to do while leaving multiple insurers in place.

Its not impossible mind you. But would require a great deal of creativity and more iron-fisted political will than Medicare for all would, I suspect.

**Richard** · February-26-20, 06:43 PM

^ social security is not a funded program,so how can it be underfunded?

Not to be confused with Medicare there is also Medicaid.

https://www.kff.org/medicaid/issue-b...-implications/

Medicaid is the one that covers the poor and underinsured.

Medicare has a source of funding that Social Security doesn't: the general fund of the U.S. federal budget. In 2014, fully 41% of Medicare's money needs came from general tax revenue, making it the most important source of funding on which retirees and other Medicare participants rely.

https://www.fool.com/retirement/2016...re-funded.aspx

**Zacha341** · February-26-20, 07:53 PM

Yes. The VA Hospital has much improved but there remain serious problems, even in their lagging behind in the industry in certain areas of technology, care, death rates and ER waits, etc.

The main rub here is that there's big money to made by the entity that runs medicine in the United States.

Watch the money trail folks!

Originally Posted by Richard

Anybody that thinks the government can handle healthcare for all just needs to look at how the VA has been run the last 50 years and that only represents 1/4 of the population at best.

**Zacha341** · February-27-20, 06:41 AM

Really? I rarely devolve into what I so witness on these threads, sometimes. I know not to go there as the original facts and points are often lost.

Instead from time to time, I point out IMO, say the controversial comments of one of the candidates and now I am a 'Richard'? LOL! That's neat and easy.

Know this: I carry the water for no candidate or party. Therefore, I'm not as bound to and or trapped in a doxy which removes my ability to criticize beyond the 'usual suspects'. I do. I will.

Then I'll step away as I will NOT do the 10,000 links and 10 inch-deep arguments to absurdity. Nope. I am civil and have thanked people for clarification and I like to exchange ideas. But the crazy stuff? Count me out.

As I have stated before, I didn't vote for Trump and will not. Yet I don't think each and all of his policies have been wrong.

If the candidates we have now win [[and one of them may) we might at least be ready to challenge and push-back on some of their policy and promises. Dig?

Unless we've got angelic, perfect folks presenting their cases. I don't think so.

Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor

Let's keep discussion constructive; and ignore, rather than imitate Richard.

**Zacha341** · February-27-20, 06:54 AM

Compelling comments. I think it is all going to cost far more than Sanders et al are apprehending. And I remain concerned that an expansion of Medicare will render it a diluted system, unable to deliver the care that private insurance does [[warts and all - pardon the pun).

I've been on various insurance modes/ options in my life. Including being without insurance! I want choice. Including the ability to purchase private insurance across state lines, etc.

Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor

That same approval has not been made for Medicare.

The answer, however you get there, is that more revenue is required.

**Canadian Visitor** · February-27-20, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Compelling comments. I think it is all going to cost far more than Sanders et al are apprehending. And I remain concerned that an expansion of Medicare will render it a diluted system, unable to deliver the care that private insurance does [[warts and all - pardon the pun).

I've been on various insurance modes/ options in my life. Including being without insurance! I want choice. Including the ability to purchase private insurance across state lines, etc.

As I've noted, there are variation of universal coverage which can provide some measure of 'choice' in insurance.

Though, I would suggest that choice is typically overrated.

I've had the same insurer my whole life, the Government of Ontario.

I've never had an item that is intrinsically covered [[hospital care, family physician, specialist etc etc.) not covered.

Never had to fight for it.

There are things covered privately here, in whole or in part. Medical devices, dental, out-of-hospital prescriptions, and out-of-hospital physiotherapy are mostly 'private' services.

Though there are programs to support seniors and/or low-income earners in most cases.

***

In that context, there is very little I could imagine wanting private insurance for, except to cover those non-insured services.

The only thing of note used to be, that if you wanted a semi-private or private hospital room, that was an insurance/ out-of-pocket upgrade.

But some years ago the government essentially outlawed most non-private rooms in new/renovated hospitals; so a private room is no longer an upgrade in most facilities [[not true in some older hospitals).

****

One of the the challenges of any model that supports a large-scale public option, is that generally, a private option will not be able to compete on price.

The public option will have 90% of the market, at least, and private insurance will therefore cost more and won't have many perks or add-ons.

That said, whatever model gets universal coverage seems fine to me. But one with multiple insurers will typically cost more.

**bust** · February-27-20, 10:11 AM

I replied on the healthcare thread, where I think this discussion belongs.

Sanders isn't the only one proposing solutions to our broken healthcare system, and they're all running on the democratic ticket anyway.

**Richard** · February-27-20, 02:02 PM

Sanders and the others with their ban fracking stance have lost Pennsylvania and Sanders with his glorifying Castro has lost not only Florida but possibly Texas.

It is still early yet but Sanders is not showing impressive gains of support outside of his base,after Saturday and Super Tuesday the crowd will be thinner then it will be interesting to see where the support goes.

**Jimaz** · February-27-20, 09:10 PM

The Establishment v Bernie Sanders, Coronavirus & the Stock Market
The Common Good w/ Robert Reich

In this episode of The Common Good, Former Labor Secretary Robert Reich discusses the contentious Democratic debate in South Carolina, the Democratic establishment’s full-blown attack on Bernie Sanders, the dangers of a brokered convention, the rapidly spreading coronavirus, Trump’s utter lack of preparedness to address the pandemic, and the stock market's worst week since the financial crisis.

Inequality Media with Robert Reich is a digital media organization aimed at debunking right-wing lies, educating the public about inequality and imbalance of power, and breaking down solutions to the economic and structural issues plaguing our country. We provide a platform for you to learn, share your ideas, and, hopefully, mobilize your communities to make change for the common good.

**Richard** · February-27-20, 09:25 PM

Actually Trump stopped incoming flights from China and quarantined all containers at the port 2 months ago,as soon as the first cases became public in China.

Before even countries that are currently showing high infection rates even thought about it.

Maybe If Some were not so busy with hate and spreading false propaganda they would know what has been going on.

You can tell nobody was paying attention because the first cry would have been Trump is racist because he stopped the flights from China.

South Carolina is 60% democratic African Americans and the Democrat with all the power just gave Biden the vote.

Bernie Sanders might just as well stay home.

How exactly does Trump control the stock market,it is tied to your world banking,he does not control the financials of every country in the world.

As usual another get paid for clicks site that explains how to place blame on everybody else and provide false narratives.

No surprise,people are not buying what Bernie is trying to sell,so it is their fault.

Poor Bernie supporters,for the life of them they just cannot figure out why most Americans are not into the socialist agenda.

Maybe they could try something equally productive,like selling ice to the Eskimos?

He had to sign an agreement with the DNC in order to run as a democrat that requires him to “act” and govern as a democrat,but he has already signed up as an independent to reserve his 2024 senate seat.

He Kinda left the DNC an out and does not show much confidence in 2020 let alone 2024 as a second term if he does win.

**rb336** · February-28-20, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

Actually Trump stopped incoming flights from China and quarantined all containers at the port 2 months ago,as soon as the first cases became public in China.

Source? It shows up no where on a google search.

**Richard** · February-28-20, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by rb336

Source? It shows up no where on a google search.

Maybe google is not the best search engine?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/trans...even-airports/

The Trump administration on Friday announced measures designed to protect Americans from the coronavirus, including blocking foreign nationals who have been in China in the past 14 days from entering the United States.

On Friday, three U.S. carriers — American, Delta and United — announced they were suspending flights to and from China, although American and United will continue to offer service to Hong Kong

From January.

The comment was

Trump’s utter lack of preparedness to address the pandemic,

Flights were already being suspended or quarantined.

Years ago the federal government had already ran pandemic scenarios and how to react,so the blueprints were already supplied to the cites and states,what have the individual states done to take steps?

**Jimaz** · February-28-20, 05:41 PM

FDR & Bernie Welcome Their Hatred

**bust** · February-28-20, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by rb336

Source? It shows up no where on a google search.

That's because it didn't happen.

A few US-based airlines voluntarily suspended most but not all direct routes to China in response to 1) crew complaints those routes jeopardized their health; 2) a giant drop in demand to fly there after the outbreak.

Trump did put travel restrictions on foreign nationals coming from China. That went into effect earlier this month. However Americans, foreign nationals with permanent residence in the US, and immediate family members of anyone legally residing in the US are still welcome to fly here from China.

A quick check on flightaware.com shows direct flights continuing from Beijing and Shanghai to the US on United, American, Air China, Air Canada, Cathay Pacific, Hainan, China Eastern, etc.. And many others with a change of planes.

I didn't see a direct flight on Delta, but I tried looking for round trip tickets from Detroit to Beijing next week. And, no problem. All it takes is a layover in South Korea or Japan -- two other hot zones.

The screening of passengers from China has been minimal. As of today, the US has only tested 459 people for the virus since the outbreak began.

As for quarantining shipping containers from China, he made that up too.

His posts are so riddled with falsehoods it's impossible to correct them all. I gave up trying. They're diversions anyway. He's here to defend Trump. And when no defense is possible, as is so often the case, he lies and distracts instead.

This forum is much more enjoyable when I scroll past.

Different opinions are good, but do you really care what he says?

**bust** · February-28-20, 10:54 PM

Jimaz, this is what played for me at the RBReich YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoJ7V5dfBYQ

That was great!

**Zacha341** · February-29-20, 06:46 AM

If our economy tanks due to Coronavirus they both could win. Handily.

One of the commenters of that youtube says the following:

I will vote for Bernie because he will increase benefits. It's not fair the well off salaried people get to enjoy life and even more so the 1% Bernie will make all those earning 100k or more share their earnings with those earning less than 60K=< a year

Benefits need to be increased for people who cannot afford rent and live in cities. Benefits for winter and summer clothing and for better access to quality food, transport, health and vacations. Yes the less off are entitled to holidays too...

Let the great 'redistribution' begin! And as NOT promised the not-so-rich [[100K folks) get hit too!

If you have a family of four living on 100K is that really rich? Well I make alot less than that so HEY, let the good times roll. I'll take that clothing voucher too. Give me mine!

I want my reparations too. And I'm well more than a percent or two black! No need for a DNA test.

**Richard** · February-29-20, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by bust

That's because it didn't happen.

A few US-based airlines voluntarily suspended most but not all direct routes to China in response to 1) crew complaints those routes jeopardized their health; 2) a giant drop in demand to fly there after the outbreak.

Trump did put travel restrictions on foreign nationals coming from China. That went into effect earlier this month. However Americans, foreign nationals with permanent residence in the US, and immediate family members of anyone legally residing in the US are still welcome to fly here from China.

A quick check on flightaware.com shows direct flights continuing from Beijing and Shanghai to the US on United, American, Air China, Air Canada, Cathay Pacific, Hainan, China Eastern, etc.. And many others with a change of planes.

I didn't see a direct flight on Delta, but I tried looking for round trip tickets from Detroit to Beijing next week. And, no problem. All it takes is a layover in South Korea or Japan -- two other hot zones.

The screening of passengers from China has been minimal. As of today, the US has only tested 459 people for the virus since the outbreak began.

As for quarantining shipping containers from China, he made that up too.

His posts are so riddled with falsehoods it's impossible to correct them all. I gave up trying. They're diversions anyway. He's here to defend Trump. And when no defense is possible, as is so often the case, he lies and distracts instead.

This forum is much more enjoyable when I scroll past.

Different opinions are good, but do you really care what he says?

So you are saying the Washington post printed a fake article,back dated it and then posted it on the internet ?

Then you have the audacity to post others are lying?

That is almost as dumb as whining about somebody politicizing something while politicizing it.

Kinda pointless to provide links that some read into only what they want to see and have zero comprehension as to the content.

“Everything else is being considered not a priority and is not allowed entry,” he said. “China is basically shut down right now.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/chin...-idUSL1N2AE00F

Let me guess,that guy is lying also?

What does this have to do with Bernie Sanders? While you are discussing misdirection.

There is a whole waaaaa Trump Coronavirus thread where you can blame the current administration all day long.

Bernie needs all the publicity he can get in this thread,besides he is still a state senator,what is his role in all of this in regards to protecting the working man?

**Zacha341** · March-01-20, 08:20 AM

Did any one else notice Biden's slip on the deaths by gun violence number?

**Zacha341** · March-01-20, 08:27 AM

Then we have the South Carolina Biden!

**Richard** · March-01-20, 09:22 AM

That was a given once he was endorsed by the Democratic king maker,South Carolina was an open voting primary,I wonder if any republicans put in a vote for Biden just to stop Bernie.

Bernie is still having a hard time drawing support outside of his base,it is still early though,Super Tuesday on March 3rd and after is really going to define who the front runners are going to be.

**Zacha341** · March-01-20, 09:38 AM

South Carolina Was a Fest of White Dems Pandering to Black Voters

Bernie even promises to help African Americans etc. sell marijuana:

"...provide help to the African American, Latino, and Native American community to start businesses to sell legal marijuana, rather than let a few corporations control the legalized marijuana market.”

Bloomberg:

"I have over 100 Black elected officials that have endorsed me. A lot of them are in the audience tonight."

Part of this is due to the fact that more Black people are questioning the democratic/ liberal status quo as applied for generations in various cities across the US! With the country so divided, nearly 50/50, the Black vote this election has power. The democratic party can longer ASSUME the black vote...

**Zacha341** · March-01-20, 09:56 AM

Per this article, only the right-wing [[the Trump supporters) posits any criticism. Well, ok -- that sums that up!

Minority Marijuana Business Group Defends Bernie Sanders’s Comments On Legalization And Race

**Richard** · March-01-20, 11:43 AM

honestly Bust,yes I think you are a bit dense as you suggested.You sure keep putting extra effort into proving it.

Once again here you are going on about Gistok,Trump,chicken feet in a thread that has nothing to with any of it,there is a whole Trump sucks thread,you keep accusing others of misdirection but yet here you are in a Bernie thread trying desperately to discuss everything but Bernie.

If you have no reason to read my posts then why are you even commenting on them,that has to be the most dumb ass statement of the year,just do like some of the others,publicly claim you are going to block me,until of course it is convenient to respond again.

Are you going to continue on the whining tirade or do you actually have something to post about Bernie? It may come as a surprise to you,but I do not really care what you Personally feel about me or your triggered sad attempts over who I support.

While I would care about your opinions on subjects but at the end of the day,as it stands now you are just another anonymous poster on the internet talking crap.

How about that Bernie?