Visiting Detroit Ends in Stereotypical Fashion

[Patrick]

I wish people would quit blaming the police, schools, blight, litter, debt, politics, taxes, minorities, etc and think about what Detroit could be if they still lived here.

Why should they live in a dream world when reality comes first? This isn't SimCity.

[BVos]

OK Izzy, so who is to blame? Those who leave? Please. Get your head out of your ass and get into reality.

I'm not one to take leaving Detroit lightly and I'm not one to take leaving a house with a mortgage on it lightly either. Unlike many of our now former neighbors we only bought a house we could afford in 2002 and took out a traditional 30 year mortgage. We've paid taxes and insurance like no one I know anywhere in America and get absolutely nothing back for it. I'm active and have been active in my neighborhood and Detroit since before living in Detroit. But it's literally getting to the point where walking away and/or short selling a house we can comfortably afford but owe 4x what it's worth and moving elsewhere [[who said suburbs, I'm talking about leaving the state all together) is way cheaper than staying. And this is just doing a one-year financial analysis, we're not talking a long term proforma/payback here.

An update on the situation: I filed a police report via phone. It took 1 hour: half-hour on hold and half hour to do the actual report. Estimate from the repair shop is $250-$300 to replace and fix the exhaust with non-OEM parts. OEM parts and repair would be $550-$600. Will be done tomorrow.

My cousin's van is a Honda and had to be taken to the dealership for repairs. Estimate is $1,000+ to repair damage and must be OEM parts due to warranty as well as Maryland air quality regs. It will take 2 days to fix so my cousin has to rent a van now until his gets fixed. My father-in-law took half the day off work to haul my cousin around and help him maneuver the repair/insurance/car rental world.

Just think of the cost that theft has. This was just two incidents at $1,250+ as well as a rental car, lost wages, police time, insurance company time, etc.

[ASR89]

Why should they live in a dream world when reality comes first? This isn't SimCity.

You're comment about SimCity made me chuckle. I have the old one for the Super Nintendo. There are 6 scenarios where you have to manage the city for five years [[or whatever the duration was. It's been a while since I played). Each scenario is different and city is different. In the game, Detroit's big issue is Crime [[others include floods, unemployment, dragon monster). Detroit in SimCity doesn't even look like Detroit since it's an old game. What's funny is there is mass transit rail lines in the game. lol Anyway, I beat the scenario with like a 80-something % approval rating. Maybe I should run for mayor. =P

[daddeeo]

Well, it's a buyers's market these days.
Hope you don't owe too much on your place.
Rosedale Park used to have Ward Security back in the old days. If you got problems in Rosedale Park, there's nothing safe in the city.

[gnome]

bvos, you do what is best for your family. To any chicken-shit peanut-gallery dwellers: fuck off. The man is taking care of his family.

[Bearinabox]

Some of the vandalism has gone to absurd lengths... on the far east side [[near Balduck Park) thieves are even stealing flowers. My mother had 2 hanging baskets stolen from her front porch, and the neighbor across the street had Geraniums stolen from 2 cement planters... they left the heavy planters and just stole the rooted flowers. Another had a hanging Boston Fern stolen.

One neighbor thinks that these items were stolen by folks delivering the handbills/leaflets and exchanged/sold for drugs.

I saw a hand-painted sign not too far from Balduck complaining about a flower theft. Corner of Harper and Marseilles, IIRC.

[LeannaM]

Izzy, I don't understand a lot about Detroit, and I see your point.

However, it's hard to stay anywhere [[any city) when your car is being vandalized in front of your house and there's gunshots all around. You can be in love with your city, but when the neighborhood is dangerous, everything is vandalized, and your house is worth diddly, I think it can be hard to have the motivation to stay.

Besides, Detroit in 2009 is not Detroit in 1959. If you can find a time machine, go back to 1959, and stop people from leaving, go ahead. But in these circumstances, I don't blame anyone for wanting to escape a potentially dangerous and frustrating situation. I don't want to see Detroit abandoned anymore than it is, but in BVOs situation, I can hardly blame him.

BVO, you may not need to leave the entire state. That said, I don't know your job situation.

[bumble]

Very succinctly stated Gnome. Gotta say, I think it's pretty inappropriate to get on the soapbox about leaving/loving Detroit when folks are dealing with issues that threaten their safety and the safety of their family. To Bvos, sorry you're dealing with this stuff. Hope you find a workable solution.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "Are any of you out there tired of our government spending billions on foreign nations as Master mentions, while our cities look like bombed out war zones?"

So what are you implying, that Government should step in and build everybody a new house? There is/was nothing wrong with the houses in Detroit. I can take you to communities all over this country, just as old as Detroit suburbs, and many older, the houses look like the day they were built. Government money will NEVER fix Detroit. Further, the Government could care less about Detroit. I think they've made that obvious. To the original poster, Move. Today.

[ziggyselbin]

This is all true. Imagine if Detroit had a proper mass transit network.

We know it is a fact that the Big Three did not want transit in the Detroit area. They wanted their home base to buy their cars. They did everything they could to derail any transit that would have opened the city and suburbs. As it stands now, there is a wall between city and suburbs that kept many jobs in the burbs and at the same time trapped Detroiters who have little or nothing, unable to acquire those jobs that requires an automobile. Let's say Detroit had the train network that Chicago has could have the city received a different fate? I think so. With reliable public transporation, there would be no excuse not to work and Detroiters would have to put up or shut up.

It is simply not true that any auto co wanted to derail mass transit. For about 75 years people took streetcars to work in the hundreds of factories in Detroit.The fact is as people were able to afford cars they bought them.And as the streetcars were chalenged by jitneys and other private transit services they[[streetcars) became old.You can read it here:




http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:...&ct=clnk&gl=us


not sure what this has to do with crime though.

[BVos]

Ziggy, there's lots of evidence on the other side pointing to GM as the culprit. I'm sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle. GM couldn't have taken down transit by it's lonesome, even if it was the largest corporation in the world at the time. I do agree with your statement that it's a rather extraneous point.

Update #2: around 8pm tonight a neighbor coming home from the store saw two guys run around the bushes of the home behind mine. She walked in the backyard and interrupted 1 guy boosting another guy up to the balcony of the house to try and break in the door and/or windows on the balcony. They mumbled some nonesense about "looking for their baby's momma" [[can it get any more ghetto...) and ran by my house and turned down the street and ran towards Grandland. The single lady who owns the house was home and was in the process of opening a window just inches from where the thugs were to see what was going on.

Then, talking to the neighbor across the street about what a mess our neighborhood has become, he says he's pretty sure the house 3 doors down from me is a drug house. His assessment doesn't surprise me.

As BB King says: I Gotta Move Out Of This Neighborhood [[but for different reasons). Unbelievable how this neighborhood has gone downhill in just 2 years or so.

[LeannaM]

BVO, you said you planned to move out of the state. Why? Not criticizing, just curious.

[R8RBOB]

It is simply not true that any auto co wanted to derail mass transit. For about 75 years people took streetcars to work in the hundreds of factories in Detroit.The fact is as people were able to afford cars they bought them.And as the streetcars were chalenged by jitneys and other private transit services they[[streetcars) became old.You can read it here:




http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:...&ct=clnk&gl=us


not sure what this has to do with crime though.

Hmm, my friend you aren't feeling the point I was attempting to make so let me explain.

You said: The fact is as people were able to afford cars they bought them.
I don't dispute that. I have a car just like the next man. Here is my point. The region didn't attempt to setup any transit system to support the population because they were in bed with the Big Three. Political leaders didn't make any attempts to make it happen. Look at L. Brooks Patterson. He went on record saying that he was against mass transit. He wanted more freeways. More sprawl as he called it.

Yes we have SMART and DOT but buses alone is not enough. Look at San Francisco. They have MUNI, they have buses, they have the trolleys and they have BART. You don't always need a car to get around. You can park your car. Same in Chicago, San Diego, Minneapolis and New York. You can't park your car in Detroit because it is the only means of transportation.

Now go back 30 years ago and start forward till you get to 2009, companies were relocating to the suburbs. There was no jobs in Detroit. You had to work in the suburbs and in some places buses didn't have routes so you had to make do. I was one of the lucky ones. I could go to the suburbs to work because I lived close enough but let's say I lived on Linwood and Chicago. It would have been hell to get to Farmington Hills every day on the bus.

I end this with this point: crime is connected to lack of opportunities. If you can read between the lines you would understand what I am saying.

[R8RBOB]

Ziggy, there's lots of evidence on the other side pointing to GM as the culprit. I'm sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle. GM couldn't have taken down transit by it's lonesome, even if it was the largest corporation in the world at the time. I do agree with your statement that it's a rather extraneous point.

Update #2: around 8pm tonight a neighbor coming home from the store saw two guys run around the bushes of the home behind mine. She walked in the backyard and interrupted 1 guy boosting another guy up to the balcony of the house to try and break in the door and/or windows on the balcony. They mumbled some nonesense about "looking for their baby's momma" [[can it get any more ghetto...) and ran by my house and turned down the street and ran towards Grandland. The single lady who owns the house was home and was in the process of opening a window just inches from where the thugs were to see what was going on.

Then, talking to the neighbor across the street about what a mess our neighborhood has become, he says he's pretty sure the house 3 doors down from me is a drug house. His assessment doesn't surprise me.

As BB King says: I Gotta Move Out Of This Neighborhood [[but for different reasons). Unbelievable how this neighborhood has gone downhill in just 2 years or so.

Who would have thought Rosedale would go to the dogs. After reading about these criminals I would think you were living in Brightmoor.

[barnesfoto]

Bvos, sorry to hear about all this. Detroit desperately needs a very long list of things, and one of them is new blood...Whatever happens, you [[unlike so many of the posters on this board) put a lot of effort into being part of the solution, but since you are not one person but part of a family, I would say that it's time to leave.
Obviously, these problems are not going to just stay in the city; sooner or later we as a nation will have to deal with them.

As I said to a war apologist some years ago: How could anybody possibly think that we could invade and occupy cities in a foreign country when we can't even manage cities in our own country?

[BVos]

I'm strongly considering out of state because jobs in my profession have become non-existent in SE Michigan and those that are open are for ridiculously low wages. And this is after 2 years of searching for a job switch to stay in the Detroit area. I can move to several other cities in the US and make double and nearly triple what I am here plus have a much thicker job market for my profession. My wife in her profession can easily make triple the money and have to turn work away as a freelancer in her line of work.

[NoHeartAnthony]

Bang!

......

[Hamtragedy]

As a Detroit kid raised in Grandmont in the 70s and 80s, and a proud public school grad, I can't think of any other place on earth that would have been more ideal. To this day I'm still a walking billboard of Detroit, work in Detroit, volunteer at a rec center, fix and maintain its houses, support local business, [[often out of the way), and drive it every day, rarely sitting in traffic. Having lived the last 15 in Hamsandwich, I'm 50 feet south of Carpenter and behind me on the Detroit side there are very few houses left. One of them will burn tonight, but I'll get up and sniff around my house to make sure it's not mine. I call Hamtown police regularly, [[often while walking the dog at midnight), because they encourage reporting suspicious activity, and they respond in two minutes.

As much as I like Hamtown, I'd rather live in the COD, but the loyalty is waning. What are the advantages these days living south of 8? Discount on insurance? No. Lower taxes? No. A water department that answers the phone? No. Police that respond to a fender bender? No. Police that respond to a break in? Maybe. Girlfriend feels safer riding her bike? No. Ease in pulling permits? No. A smile when going to CAY? Good Schools? No. Recycling? No [[but they gave us an extra dumpster with a blue lid to put trash in). Streetlights that work regularly? No. Traffic lights that get fixed when they go out? No. Parks that have the grass cut? No.

But I put up with these things. And the tools getting stolen. And the car getting broken into. Again, and again. And this is not normal. It's a blinding loyalty that a lot of us have, and it takes someone from outside to let us know that our loyalty, along with this town, are completely dysfunctional. And, mostly because of a girlfriend, who rightfully feels unsafe, the day is coming soon that I'll be jumping this ship, because, frankly, I'm tired of living a block away from the ghetto. I'm tired of living where at the end of the block there's [[once again) several abandoned auto dealerships. And that 45 degree angle path accross a patch of grass [[weeds) where a building once stood. And assholes in the alley. And trash blowing accross my lawn whenever the wind blows hard, even though I just cleaned it all yesterday.

I will miss running the red lights though.

But the loyalty is waning

[jtf1972]

I am currently working for the US Army Corps of Engineers in Afghanistan for 6 months. We are spending BILLIONS in building up the infrastructure of this country - roads, schools, dams, POLICE STATIONS. That money could well be spent on improving law enforcement and professional development training in troubled cities like Detroit.

The fact remains that if we spend our tax dollars overseas on nations that are hellholes it is called "nation-building," and is generally accepted as a necessity in stabilizing regions which if left untouched breed terrorists. If we do it here it is called "socialism." We all know what happens when something gets that label.

You can pour billions of dollars into Detroit and all you would get is a cosmetic makeover. What Detroit needs is an internal makeover....billions won't change the culture.

If billions were spent in the proper areas it could make a major difference. Detroit needs to triple the size of its police force. It can barely pay the cops on the street now, so I believe federal funding of our nation's police departments is a necessity. With the police off the city's budget there would never be a decision to be made over whether or not to lay off those who are needed most. Despite the loss of people and jobs, Detroit is still a major city. It is also a border town. In the age we live, compromise in security should not even be a question.

We also need to re-examine the structure of the federal government's aid to highway construction. When Rep. Miller is complaining that the feds should pay 100% of road construction costs because her district can't come up with the 10% of local funding, maybe the feds shouldn't be fronting the 90% in the first place. The Federal Aid Highway Act of 1958 was necessary to build the interstate highway system, but since that was 51 years ago it is hardly needed to continue funding the sprawl that siphoned the economy of so many cities.

I'm strongly considering out of state because jobs in my profession have become non-existent in SE Michigan and those that are open are for ridiculously low wages. And this is after 2 years of searching for a job switch to stay in the Detroit area. I can move to several other cities in the US and make double and nearly triple what I am here plus have a much thicker job market for my profession. My wife in her profession can easily make triple the money and have to turn work away as a freelancer in her line of work.

The job loss to other states has hurt, but not nearly as bad as the job loss to other countries that we have a so-called "free trade" agreement with. How is it that we have "free trade" with Mexico, yet they impose tariffs on US made goods? "Fair trade" agreements would help protect jobs here, and even help restore some industries we gave away. Yes, we are warned about "protectionism" by leaders on both the right and left, but when we attempt to deal with a worldwide economy by becoming the consumers of the world we will send our capitol to the producing nations. While we force our own companies to operate on purely capitalist rules, the nations we have these "free trade" agreements with support their industries, destroying any chance we may have to compete with their unfair advantage.

We need to put laws in place to protect American jobs. Hell, the last president wanted to eliminate labeling of goods entirely, so we wouldn't have a choice of even buying something that was made in the USA or in China.

[jjw]

I'm an 8 year resident of Detroit and have owned a home in Rosedale Park for the past 7 years. I love this City, at least most days. But lately those love the D days are getting fewer and fewer.

My cousin's family is in town from Maryland to visit family in the area. He and his wife came over last night to visit with us while our kids and his had a sleep over at a relative's house in Sterling Heights. We had a good time visiting and before we knew it it was pretty late. So my cousin and his wife decided to crash at our place for the night.

Just after going to sleep we heard a gun fire off about a half dozen shots a block or two away. Great... So much for any attempts at passing off the neighborhood as nice.

We woke up this morning to find the catalytic converter stolen off our car and my cousin's catalytic converter damaged from an unsuccessful attempt at being stolen off his minivan. We have a one car garage so both of us had our vehicles parked on the street in front of my house in Rosedale Park. So instead of our families spending the day at the beach like we had planned and the kids were excited to do, we're now both spending it at the repair shop shelling out several hundred dollars to fix something on our cars that was never broke to begin with.

I don't know how much more I can put up with in this city. Having the car receive several hundred dollars in damage in three separate vandalism incidents, having another car stolen, having the house broken into, having to pay for private school, paying outrageous insurance rates that keep going up, paying taxes for services that I never receive, etc., etc. etc. And this is just the stuff that has directly happened to us over the past few years.

We have neighbors [[yes, in Rosedale Park) who've been robbed at gunpoint, been kidnapped and forced to lead robbers through a ransacking of their house, had rims stolen off their car in broad daylight in their own driveway, had their houses broken into and ransacked after being gone for just 1 hour, etc. all within the past year. I'm pretty close to calling it quits and walking away from the house and moving somewhere where shit like this doesn't happen on a regular basis and the cops actually give a damn about it.

I am from Detroit [[city-lived, schooled, graduated, worked) and moved to Baltimore not to escape the city but because a job opportunity arose which looked promising and turned out to be just that. Anyway, Baltimore has these same issues but I can say that I have never had a break-in for both my home or car in all the time I have been here. The difference: yes, Baltimore has some tough neighborhoods-just as or if not more tough than Detroit but it also has neighborhoods that you can feel pretty secure to live in the city. Most of us here have only street- parking options and thefts occur but not to much in the safer neighborhoods. The police presence is also noted frequently and they do respond rather quickly when incidents occur. I feel rather confident walking in the city and do so for work and back and other activities [[restaurant, film, shopping, etc.)
I am all for folks opting to choose the city but when the negatives outweigh the positives-it's time to go. Sounds like that is the case for you.
What I don't get about it is that Detroit has such beautiful neighborhoods with huge homes [[Rosedale Park). In Baltimore, people would gladly give their left nut to have that kind of space and greenery that goes with living in a city. It sounds like Detroiters have very few options available for people who want to live in the city but don't want "condo" life.

[exmotowner]

Bvos, I went through the same thing only murders, rapes break ins, car vandelism and the whole 9 yards, but when I said anything I got jumped on like white on rice. Im very surprised you are not getting lambasted on this subject. I quit posting because of it. All that being said, I ran a 50 unit apartment building in Palmer park where all this happened.

[bumble]

Exmotowner, my first Detroit apartment was on Merton in Palmer Park. I had a really pretty studio apartment there for $290 a month about ten years ago. I moved there despite the protests of friends and family, because I felt then like Izzy does now. If people refuse to live here, how will the unique and beautiful neighborhood that is Palmer Park ever recover? Well, I learned. I can't sacrifice a basic human need, like relative safety, because I love art deco architecture and the idea of what Palmer Park could be if the world was all sunshine, rainbows and unicorns. It ain't that. It's holdups, dead hookers, and neighbors who stop you in the street, sayin' "You live here white girl? Alone??", and then laughing in your face. Me going to the gas station on McNichols and getting yelled at by a patron to get out the neighborhood, "Quit coming to my neighborhood to buy your drugs!" Getting rear ended on McNichols and then having my life threatened by the crazed woman who was driving, ready to beat me up with her two babies in the backseat. No thanks. I still love Palmer Park and think it's an absolute treasure in many ways, but I would never go back.

I think people are getting fed up. We need to vent. Living in this city can be very frustrating, especially as a home owner. It's okay to bitch about it. By talking about it, maybe citizens can come together, communities will become tighter, neighborhood watch patrols can be organized, people may become more aware and vigilant and take necessary steps to protect their homes and the people they love. There's no reason to suffer in silence, nothing good can come out of that.

[Fury13]

Detroit needs to triple the size of its police force. It can barely pay the cops on the street now, so I believe federal funding of our nation's police departments is a necessity.

Now, THERE you go. Triple... no, QUADRUPLE the size of the police force on the street. Adopt a zero-tolerance stance toward crime... in other words, if officers observe obvious criminal activity, shoot 'em. If it is merely suspicious, warn 'em and then shoot 'em.

I guarantee there will be less crime [[and less criminals, eventually) if there's a 80-90 percent chance that criminal activity will result in the perp being shot. Instill a little good old-fashioned FEAR.

And with more cops, there would be no reason for investing so much money in nice little "volunteer" programs like Angels' Night. Why is Detroit still even doing this? NO, just put four times as many cops on the street... and if the situation looks like arson, shoot 'em. Shoot 'em and good riddance.

[Lorax]

Exmotowner, my first Detroit apartment was on Merton in Palmer Park. I had a really pretty studio apartment there for $290 a month about ten years ago. I moved there despite the protests of friends and family, because I felt then like Izzy does now. If people refuse to live here, how will the unique and beautiful neighborhood that is Palmer Park ever recover? Well, I learned. I can't sacrifice a basic human need, like relative safety, because I love art deco architecture and the idea of what Palmer Park could be if the world was all sunshine, rainbows and unicorns. It ain't that. It's holdups, dead hookers, and neighbors who stop you in the street, sayin' "You live here white girl? Alone??", and then laughing in your face. Me going to the gas station on McNichols and getting yelled at by a patron to get out the neighborhood, "Quit coming to my neighborhood to buy your drugs!" Getting rear ended on McNichols and then having my life threatened by the crazed woman who was driving, ready to beat me up with her two babies in the backseat. No thanks. I still love Palmer Park and think it's an absolute treasure in many ways, but I would never go back.

I think people are getting fed up. We need to vent. Living in this city can be very frustrating, especially as a home owner. It's okay to bitch about it. By talking about it, maybe citizens can come together, communities will become tighter, neighborhood watch patrols can be organized, people may become more aware and vigilant and take necessary steps to protect their homes and the people they love. There's no reason to suffer in silence, nothing good can come out of that.

Wow, great post.

I had my second apartment at 1001 Covington, then moved to Whitmore later- that was 25 years ago, and it was considered marginal at best, even then. We had the video store owner on McNichols murdered for cash, leaving behind his family- scrappers trying to remove lobby fixtures in broad daylight, and car thefts were common. Rarely were there people accosted, even at night during that time, at least that's what I remember. There used to be a large gay presence in the neighborhood, but with most of the gay friendly establishments long gone, I understand they, too, have left.

My most recent drive-through last month when I was in town, revealed what is most likely the last gasp for the area- most of the buildings on Merton are vacant, boarded, or burned.

It's amazing with all the "legacy wealth" of the rich which I have been carping about on another thread, that some nouveau billionaire with a love of architecture wouldn't just go in and buy up all the buildings, gate the area off and upgrade the entire neighborhood. Even taking a loss for the first 10 years or so would be worth saving the architecture.

[Bobl]

jtf1972:

Your quote: "...The job loss to other states has hurt, but not nearly as bad as the job loss to other countries that we have a so-called "free trade" agreement with. How is it that we have "free trade" with Mexico, yet they impose tariffs on US made goods? "Fair trade" agreements would help protect jobs here, and even help restore some industries we gave away. Yes, we are warned about "protectionism" by leaders on both the right and left, but when we attempt to deal with a worldwide economy by becoming the consumers of the world we will send our capitol to the producing nations. While we force our own companies to operate on purely capitalist rules, the nations we have these "free trade" agreements with support their industries, destroying any chance we may have to compete with their unfair advantage.

We need to put laws in place to protect American jobs. Hell, the last president wanted to eliminate labeling of goods entirely, so we wouldn't have a choice of even buying something that was made in the USA or in China..."

Is accurate, and well written. It applies not only to Detroit, but the whole country. We need to get back to producing goods as well as services.

The crime in the neighborhoods that is described in this thread is overwhelming. No situation to raise a family. Anyone who chooses to leave, and can, should not be criticized at this point.