Visiting Detroit Ends in Stereotypical Fashion

[BVos]

I'm an 8 year resident of Detroit and have owned a home in Rosedale Park for the past 7 years. I love this City, at least most days. But lately those love the D days are getting fewer and fewer.

My cousin's family is in town from Maryland to visit family in the area. He and his wife came over last night to visit with us while our kids and his had a sleep over at a relative's house in Sterling Heights. We had a good time visiting and before we knew it it was pretty late. So my cousin and his wife decided to crash at our place for the night.

Just after going to sleep we heard a gun fire off about a half dozen shots a block or two away. Great... So much for any attempts at passing off the neighborhood as nice.

We woke up this morning to find the catalytic converter stolen off our car and my cousin's catalytic converter damaged from an unsuccessful attempt at being stolen off his minivan. We have a one car garage so both of us had our vehicles parked on the street in front of my house in Rosedale Park. So instead of our families spending the day at the beach like we had planned and the kids were excited to do, we're now both spending it at the repair shop shelling out several hundred dollars to fix something on our cars that was never broke to begin with.

I don't know how much more I can put up with in this city. Having the car receive several hundred dollars in damage in three separate vandalism incidents, having another car stolen, having the house broken into, having to pay for private school, paying outrageous insurance rates that keep going up, paying taxes for services that I never receive, etc., etc. etc. And this is just the stuff that has directly happened to us over the past few years.

We have neighbors [[yes, in Rosedale Park) who've been robbed at gunpoint, been kidnapped and forced to lead robbers through a ransacking of their house, had rims stolen off their car in broad daylight in their own driveway, had their houses broken into and ransacked after being gone for just 1 hour, etc. all within the past year. I'm pretty close to calling it quits and walking away from the house and moving somewhere where shit like this doesn't happen on a regular basis and the cops actually give a damn about it.

[Crumbled_pavement]

Not to be sarcastic, but you should move. I was on the phone with one of my cousins who moved to Texas back in '95. He was telling me that when he moved to Texas it was the first time he could feel safe and not have to look over his shoulders every 5 minutes. The economy in Detroit is not going to turn around now that the Big 3 have had to shed 50% of their employees and cut the wages of those who remain. There is no future here without an industry. I say if you've experienced this kind of bad luck then leave while you can.

[exdetroiter]

I moved out of Detroit to a suburban area for that exact reason. I must say, although I take the same precautions of setting my alarm before I leave my house and parking under a street light in front of my place [[probably due to the shell shock of living in the city), I feel a lot more at peace. I certainly haven't heard any gun shoots. Surely not missed. Its like living in a completely different world. GET OUT WHILE YOU STILL HAVE YOUR LIFE.

[gravitymachine]

I'm pretty close to calling it quits and walking away from the house and moving somewhere where shit like this doesn't happen on a regular basis and the cops actually give a damn about it.

you shouldn't have to feel guilty at all for wanting to get out given the circumstances, and you'll be far from the first to do so, many of your predesessors having been motivated by much less. If you feel the situation is untenable for you and your family, then it is, doesn't matter what anyone else here thinks as they aren't the ones experiencing it.

[Patrick]

Yeah, it might be time for you to move even if you lose money on your home. Before long you will get the typical Detroityes cheerleaders raving about the city and comparing onscure statistical bullshit in order to prove their point. Detroit isn't going to get any safer in the near future.

[ziggyselbin]

cue davewidsor.......dave? dave yer up

[detmich]

This thread is going to get ugly soon. So let me save everyone the trouble by writing, "Why do you hate Detroit?"

Okay, normal discussion may now resume.

[masterblaster]

I don't know what to say! I live in Warrendale, and my house was been broken into on a Saturday afternoon at 3:28 pm.

I tell you, there are just too many people in this city who have not been raised to respect other people, other people's property, and law & order in general. It is disturbing.

Who to get mad at more, the degenerates who stole the catalytic converters, or the greedy criminals who are buying them?

What we need is to get all of those 5,849,993 churches we have in the city, both mega-church and storefront ones, to do their part and go to out and teach some morals and values to all of these soulless, heartless imbeciles who wreak havoc on everybody, or at least teach the parents how to raise a child so that they won't end up being leaches on society.

What we also need to do, is get of all those people who live in the city and former residents, who have been victims of crimes, thousands upon thousands, to hold a gigantic sit-in at city hall - to shut down city government so that we can demonstrate to the city government, county government, state government, the federal government that we, the honest, hardworking, and productive citizens of the city, can't live like this anymore and we are not going to take this lawlessness anymore.

I am currently working for the US Army Corps of Engineers in Afghanistan for 6 months. We are spending BILLIONS in building up the infrastructure of this country - roads, schools, dams, POLICE STATIONS. That money could well be spent on improving law enforcement and professional development training in troubled cities like Detroit.

[Lorax]

I don't know what to say! I live in Warrendale, and my house was been broken into on a Saturday afternoon at 3:28 pm.

I tell you, there are just too many people in this city who have not been raised to respect other people, other people's property, and law & order in general. It is disturbing.

Who to get mad at more, the degenerates who stole the catalytic converters, or the greedy criminals who are buying them?

What we need is to get all of those 5,849,993 churches we have in the city, both mega-church and storefront ones, to do their part and go to out and teach some morals and values to all of these soulless, heartless imbeciles who wreak havoc on everybody, or at least teach the parents how to raise a child so that they won't end up being leaches on society.

What we also need to do, is get of all those people who live in the city and former residents, who have been victims of crimes, thousands upon thousands, to hold a gigantic sit-in at city hall - to shut down city government so that we can demonstrate to the city government, county government, state government, the federal government that we, the honest, hardworking, and productive citizens of the city, can't live like this anymore and we are not going to take this lawlessness anymore.

I am currently working for the US Army Corps of Engineers in Afghanistan for 6 months. We are spending BILLIONS in building up the infrastructure of this country - roads, schools, dams, POLICE STATIONS. That money could well be spent on improving law enforcement and professional development training in troubled cities like Detroit.

Quite true, and a good point. We can spend billions in foreign countries fixing what we shouldn't have destroyed in the first place, but when it comes to broad reaching initiatives to rebuild our cities in America, all we get is bureaucratic bullshit.

The Rethuglicans here will have a field day with this, calling such broad reaching initiatives as "socialism" or "communism" which is a crock of crap.

Let me just ask this one question-

Are any of you out there tired of our government spending billions on foreign nations as Master mentions, while our cities look like bombed out war zones?

How about a WPA, 21st century style, to bring our built environment back to our major cities?

With the monies spent overseas, Detroit could have a regional subway system, bullet trains, all roads repaved, Belle Isle restored to it's 19th century beauty, new infrastructure, manicured parks, etc.

All it takes is reassorting the priorities of how money is wasted in this country. I would rather "waste" it on us, and have somenthing to show for it.

[R8RBOB]

To the poster that started this thread, I feel for you and your relatives. We Detroiters have experienced some sort of loss from these crooks and it shakes you up because you want to believe that there are people among you that feel as you do and there are. Try not to forget that.

For those ex-Detroiters that feel so safe outside of Detroit, know this: the criminals are coming to a neighborhood near you. To try to marginalize this to just a Detroit problem is so 20th century way of thinking. The rats are running out of food here in Detroit and they are branching outward for new sources of food. When you are hearing stories of people getting carjacked in Clinton Township, kidnappings in Eastpointe, houses being broken in and bank robberies in Harrison Township you know the rats are moving outward.

Detroiters like me also don't want to hear no gunshots, no carjackings, no murders. We want the same things, but I would naive to think that this stuff started yesterday. People like me have been a witness to decades of distored thinking and inaction which have led us to this point in our history. I agree with Lorax on what Detroit could have been if the monies would have applied to restore Detroit as the "Paris of the West." Money and opportunities could elevated Detroit's place as a major city in the 21st century. Instead, lack of money and opportunities has turned Detroit into a rathole so I can understand those residents who have to flee for a better life in the suburbs.

[rustic]

BVos, yeah, that jibes with the trend my father mentioned to me about 5-7 years ago. Of course there are a lot of factors [[nationally: housing crisis, stock market crash, banking collapse, wars, ...; regionally: auto industry imploding, increasing balkanization, stagnation and brain drain ... ; and locally: two mayoral administrations that did essentially nothing for the neighborhoods [[Archer and Kilpatrick), further desiccation of Detroit's middle and lower middle class, increasing poverty and ignorance ...) but when you have a situation where a significant number of homes in specific neighborhoods get snapped up by absentee owners in what had until then been primarily a VAAAST majority owner-occupied neighborhood with extremely stable income demographics THAT represents a significant "change" to the neighborhood. I remember my Dad driving me up Ashton and down Rosemont several years back pointing out which houses were owned by out of state investors. It was stunning.

BV, re leaving the region, it is tough moving away from family esp. if you have little ones that have grown up near kin, but you gotta do what you gotta do. The whole SE Michigan region is losing households. The next census will be sobering for the region. Anecdotally, in my circle of family and close friends who were living in Detroit and the suburbs two years ago, only about 1/2 remain today. These are all Detroiters with deep roots, history, family ties, etc.

[R8RBOB]

How about a WPA, 21st century style, to bring our built environment back to our major cities?

With the monies spent overseas, Detroit could have a regional subway system, bullet trains, all roads repaved, Bell Isle restored to it's 19th century beauty, new infrastructure, manicured parks, etc.

All it takes is reassorting the priorities of how money is wasted in this country. I would rather "waste" it on us, and have somenthing to show for it.

This is all true. Imagine if Detroit had a proper mass transit network.

We know it is a fact that the Big Three did not want transit in the Detroit area. They wanted their home base to buy their cars. They did everything they could to derail any transit that would have opened the city and suburbs. As it stands now, there is a wall between city and suburbs that kept many jobs in the burbs and at the same time trapped Detroiters who have little or nothing, unable to acquire those jobs that requires an automobile. Let's say Detroit had the train network that Chicago has could have the city received a different fate? I think so. With reliable public transporation, there would be no excuse not to work and Detroiters would have to put up or shut up.

[Detroitnerd]

I saw a kid once steal a planter off a porch in Hamtramck. I wanted to go over and talk to him, but my friend told me not to. I was like, "WTF? I see some kid stealing a planter and I'm NOT supposed to call him on it?" [[I was a crummy kid once too, and I'm now grateful for the older folks who stepped in to stop me then.) So we kept walking. A Hamtramck police cruiser pulled up and the kid must have had eyes in the back of his head. He threw the planter down in an alley and kept walking. The police bugged the kids that it was past curfew, and the kids promised to walk home, but the cop car followed them, presumably, all the way home. I still wish I had taken the planter and brought it back to the house, but it all happened so fast I didn't remember which house it was.

Anyway, planter stealing is apparently kids' stuff.

As for spending all our money on the military empire and not spending it at home, there you go. That's what happens to an empire in the final stage.

[ziggyselbin]

This is all true. Imagine if Detroit had a proper mass transit network.

We know it is a fact that the Big Three did not want transit in the Detroit area. They wanted their home base to buy their cars. They did everything they could to derail any transit that would have opened the city and suburbs. As it stands now, there is a wall between city and suburbs that kept many jobs in the burbs and at the same time trapped Detroiters who have little or nothing, unable to acquire those jobs that requires an automobile. Let's say Detroit had the train network that Chicago has could have the city received a different fate? I think so. With reliable public transporation, there would be no excuse not to work and Detroiters would have to put up or shut up.

It is simply not true that any auto co wanted to derail mass transit. For about 75 years people took streetcars to work in the hundreds of factories in Detroit.The fact is as people were able to afford cars they bought them.And as the streetcars were chalenged by jitneys and other private transit services they[[streetcars) became old.You can read it here:




http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:...&ct=clnk&gl=us


not sure what this has to do with crime though.

[BVos]

Ziggy, there's lots of evidence on the other side pointing to GM as the culprit. I'm sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle. GM couldn't have taken down transit by it's lonesome, even if it was the largest corporation in the world at the time. I do agree with your statement that it's a rather extraneous point.

Update #2: around 8pm tonight a neighbor coming home from the store saw two guys run around the bushes of the home behind mine. She walked in the backyard and interrupted 1 guy boosting another guy up to the balcony of the house to try and break in the door and/or windows on the balcony. They mumbled some nonesense about "looking for their baby's momma" [[can it get any more ghetto...) and ran by my house and turned down the street and ran towards Grandland. The single lady who owns the house was home and was in the process of opening a window just inches from where the thugs were to see what was going on.

Then, talking to the neighbor across the street about what a mess our neighborhood has become, he says he's pretty sure the house 3 doors down from me is a drug house. His assessment doesn't surprise me.

As BB King says: I Gotta Move Out Of This Neighborhood [[but for different reasons). Unbelievable how this neighborhood has gone downhill in just 2 years or so.

[R8RBOB]

It is simply not true that any auto co wanted to derail mass transit. For about 75 years people took streetcars to work in the hundreds of factories in Detroit.The fact is as people were able to afford cars they bought them.And as the streetcars were chalenged by jitneys and other private transit services they[[streetcars) became old.You can read it here:




http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:...&ct=clnk&gl=us


not sure what this has to do with crime though.

Hmm, my friend you aren't feeling the point I was attempting to make so let me explain.

You said: The fact is as people were able to afford cars they bought them.
I don't dispute that. I have a car just like the next man. Here is my point. The region didn't attempt to setup any transit system to support the population because they were in bed with the Big Three. Political leaders didn't make any attempts to make it happen. Look at L. Brooks Patterson. He went on record saying that he was against mass transit. He wanted more freeways. More sprawl as he called it.

Yes we have SMART and DOT but buses alone is not enough. Look at San Francisco. They have MUNI, they have buses, they have the trolleys and they have BART. You don't always need a car to get around. You can park your car. Same in Chicago, San Diego, Minneapolis and New York. You can't park your car in Detroit because it is the only means of transportation.

Now go back 30 years ago and start forward till you get to 2009, companies were relocating to the suburbs. There was no jobs in Detroit. You had to work in the suburbs and in some places buses didn't have routes so you had to make do. I was one of the lucky ones. I could go to the suburbs to work because I lived close enough but let's say I lived on Linwood and Chicago. It would have been hell to get to Farmington Hills every day on the bus.

I end this with this point: crime is connected to lack of opportunities. If you can read between the lines you would understand what I am saying.

[Buy American]

"I am currently working for the US Army Corps of Engineers in Afghanistan for 6 months. We are spending BILLIONS in building up the infrastructure of this country - roads, schools, dams, POLICE STATIONS. That money could well be spent on improving law enforcement and professional development training in troubled cities like Detroit. "

That's one of the biggest problems with the U.S. right now.....priorities. The cities that need money the most are not getting it because of priorities in other countries. Why rebuild Iraq? Why rebuild Afghanistian? Charity begins at home folks, and until we get that point across, I think many cities in the U.S. are doomed.

[Patrick]

I am currently working for the US Army Corps of Engineers in Afghanistan for 6 months. We are spending BILLIONS in building up the infrastructure of this country - roads, schools, dams, POLICE STATIONS. That money could well be spent on improving law enforcement and professional development training in troubled cities like Detroit.

You can pour billions of dollars into Detroit and all you would get is a cosmetic makeover. What Detroit needs is an internal makeover....billions won't change the culture.

[masterblaster]

You can pour billions of dollars into Detroit and all you would get is a cosmetic makeover. What Detroit needs is an internal makeover....billions won't change the culture.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, sir. I stated in my post that the churches should be leading such an "internal makeover" of the populace "to change the culture"- respect for human life, respect for other people's property, respect for elders, self-determination. The church and the family are the main institutions in which values, morals, integrity, work ethic, sacrifice, etc. are taught. There are so many churches in the city, but they seem to make so little impact. For instance, 70-something percent of children are born to single mothers in Detroit.

Even though you are poor, there is no justification for being a thief, for there are many government programs that can assist you. You can recieve an unemployment check for 70-something weeks in Michigan for pete's sake.

[Crumbled_pavement]

You can pour billions of dollars into Detroit and all you would get is a cosmetic makeover. What Detroit needs is an internal makeover....billions won't change the culture.

It's tired thinking to expect that a whole culture can be changed for free. It's not the billions being spent, it's the billions being spent by who and for what and with what oversight. A fool and his money soon depart, but with smart, concerned leadership those billions spent in Iraq and Afghanistan could be spent here changing the culture.'

It's long past due for republicans and democrats, blacks and whites, theists and atheists, rich and poor, city dweller and suburbanite, educated and uneducated, young and old to work together, not against each other. I'm tired of people trying to make everything into an "either/or" proposition. There is just far too much partisanship and division to have progress in this region.

[barnesfoto]

"It's long past due for republicans and democrats, blacks and whites, theists and atheists, rich and poor, city dweller and suburbanite, educated and uneducated, young and old to work together, not against each other. I'm tired of people trying to make everything into an "either/or" proposition"

You mean creating win/win situations instead of win/lose situations?

Here's a start; I agree with everything that everybody has posted on this thread.

[Crumbled_pavement]

Here's a start; I agree with everything that everybody has posted on this thread.

Point taken. Of course people are going to disagree. I just think sometimes we disagree for the sake of disagreement and not because there is real conflict. I can think of lots of ideas that would fit nice and snugly into both the Republican and Democratic thought process. But if a Republican said it then a Democrat feels he must fight against it, if a Jew supports it then a Muslim must hate it, so on and so forth - simply retarded, backwards thinking.

[Lowell]

Bvos, that's just awful. You and your relatives have my sympathies. I hope the days to come bring you good fortune.

[Bobl]

From another thread:

"...It's time for a paradigm shift in this great city. More support for the police. No more praise for the thug life.
It might take time, and some active parenting and mentoring. Let it begin...."

What is the first step? How do we reach the parents? How do we eliminate the incredibly damaging "no snitch" attitude?

[Detroitnerd]

What is the first step? How do we reach the parents? How do we eliminate the incredibly damaging "no snitch" attitude?

Yes, pro-snitching is much better.