Amazon Looking for a new HQ - Detroit-Windsor Bid Rejected

[313WX]

The US Census Bureau determines MSAs based on commuting patterns in / out of the core city of the region. Since so few people in the region commute into the city proper for work [[relative to other major cities in the US), we get extremely short changed in how our metro area is defined. They also dont account for people who live in close proximity to the core city but are outside the US.

Thus, to my point, it's an extremely flawed way to look at Metro Detroit. The wikipedia page below is more accurate...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit%E2%80%93Windsor

[Bham1982]

The US Census Bureau determines MSAs based on commuting patterns in / out of the core city of the region. Since so few people in the region commute into the city proper for work, we get short changed in how our metro area is defined. They also dont account for people who live in close proximity to the core city but are outside the US.

Thus, to my point, it's an extremely flawed way to look at Metro Detroit. The wikipedia page below is more accurate...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit%E2%80%93Windsor

You feel it's "extremely flawed" to rigorously apply the same standards to all metros to derive a common metric.

Rather, you prefer the "metric" of an editable Wikipedia narrative article, Yeah, that makes sense...

[313WX]

You feel it's "extremely flawed" to rigorously apply the same standards to all metros to derive a common metric.

The problem isn't with the way the Census measures things, but the fact that Michigan is so backwards ass in the way it does things.

[401don]

Regardless of how you define a metro area, I think it is reasonable for Amazon to consider the demographics within a 40 mile area of a city they are considering as one more factor in their decision making.

[313WX]

This would sting, although it's not surprising.

Amazon Responds to Report That Boston is Frontrunner for 2nd Headquarters

http://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/...444050503.html

That said, this part of the article was interesting:

...A few years ago, Amazon executives discussed building a second headquarters in Toronto because two decades of rapid growth had left the company feeling constrained in Seattle. But global consumer chief Jeff Wilke objected and said the new location should be in the United States, the person said.

...Picking Boston would disappoint many Amazon employees with families hoping for a more suburban location like Austin, Texas, that offers affordable housing options beyond apartments and condominiums, said Brittain Ladd, a supply chain consultant who used to work for the company and still knows a lot of people there. What’s more, Austin is home to Whole Foods, recently acquired by Amazon for $13.7 billion.

“Texas is absolutely the best choice from the perspective of associates,” Ladd said. “Amazon associates are sick and tired of living in cities with high rents and congestion...”

[MicrosoftFan]

Did someone just say "sick of high rents"? Boy, do I have a city for you!

[SammyS]

Please not fuckin Texas.

[canuck]

It's either going to be Houston or Miami. Low lol.

[313WX]

Please not fuckin Texas.

I'd be OK with Texas and many of the other contenders landing this, just not Boston, DC or Denver [[places that are already overrated and overcrowded) or any Rust Belt city smaller than Detroot.

[emu steve]

I'd be OK with Texas and many of the other contenders landing this, just not Boston, DC or Denver [[places that are already overrated and overcrowded) or any Rust Belt city smaller than Detroot.

Every time I 're-analyze' the cities I come up with a different cluster of cities based on some factor or criterion.

I do see cities like BOS, D.C., etc. being of the same ilk. Pretty much they are similar.

Houston and Miami are subject to extreme weather events [[at least once every N number of years).

Then for a smaller city which would after some years become a 'bigger city' and that could be Austin, although I don't think they meet most of the criteria today, but would be very desirable for millennials.

P.S. Re: NoVa. Housing near Dulles is expensive, by Detroit's standards, but isn't too bad for a desirable area. However, if there is a substantial increase in demand for housing, then up would go costs. Maybe significantly.

I still say D.C.-area's big kicker is that Bezos has a house in D.C. and owns the Washington Post.

Probably a city he really likes... You'd think... [[I think of the Midwesterner who owns a winter home in Florida).

I'd think they are in the "Final Four."

[313WX]

So, yeah, same deal as Ann Arbor and Detroit; separate metros and basically unrelated.

Now you're moving the goal post.

Please explain the logic [[or lack thereof) behind why a city 40 miles from Detroit can't be considered a part of Detroit's metro area, yet cities 40 miles from Atlanta [[Newnan and Cartersville) are considered part of their Metro areas? Why the different standards?

[313WX]

lol at comparing Ann Arbor to Baltimore.

Please spare me. Ann Arbor is a part of Metro Detroit. I don't care what you call it [[suburb, satellite city, Mars, etc.), but the point is it's one of many towns that surrounds and is integrated with the core city of the region. That's that.

[aj3647]

lol at comparing Ann Arbor to Baltimore.

Please spare me. Ann Arbor is a part of Metro Detroit. I don't care what you call it [[suburb, satellite city, Mars, etc.), but the point is it's one of many towns that surrounds and is integrated with the core city of the region. That's that.

Then Flint must also be Metro Detroit as well, correct?

Fine, Ann Arbor is a suburb of Detroit. Wave that flag all you want, Amazon still isn't going to build their HQ here.

[313WX]

Below is a very good and sobering article [[this is specifically directed towards pig-headed folks like Bham1982 and aj3647).

http://www.freep.com/story/news/colu...oit/662745001/

[aj3647]

Below is a very good and sobering article [[this is specifically directed towards pig-headed folks like Bham1982 and aj3647).

http://www.freep.com/story/news/colu...oit/662745001/

I'm pig-headed because I disagree with you?

I tell you what, if Amazon picks Detroit, I'll eat crow. I'll eat as much crow as you want.

Of course, I have no expectation whatsoever that those of you who keep insisting over and over and over and over again that Metro Detroit is clearly far and away the #1 best option for Amazon will admit that perhaps your own biases blinded you to the many aspects of this region that do no suit Amazon's needs, in the event that Amazon does not choose a Michigan location.

Time will tell. We'll see who's right and who's wrong.

[Bham1982]

Below is a very good and sobering article [[this is specifically directed towards pig-headed folks like Bham1982 and aj3647).

http://www.freep.com/story/news/colu...oit/662745001/

Given there's nothing in the article that remotely contradicts anything we have written, I'll take your absurd, childlike criticism in stride.

[313WX]

Given there's nothing in the article that remotely contradicts anything we have written...

I take it you didn't actually read the article.

"In Michigan, people were tripping over each other and there were multiple bids and no alignment. People were competing against each other and we wanted a region where if we had a problem, we knew the region would come together to solve the problem as opposed to pointing fingers.

In other words, putting so much focus on pushing bullshit claims such as Ann Arbor not being a part of Metro Detroit [[instead of realizing we're stronger by acknowledging and playing up the regional tie). To people outside of Michigan, it makes them think we're coo-coo and serves no purpose.

[313WX]

I'm pig-headed because I disagree with you?.

You're being pig-headed because you're being extremely negative for no good reason and making non-sensical arguments.

[Junjie]

You're being pig-headed because you're being extremely negative for no good reason and making non-sensical arguments.

If you look at the Amazon requirements and are anything other than negative about Detroit's chances you should have your head examined.

Do I hope Detroit gets it? Of course. But just read the actual RFP from Amazon - page 5 has their "Key Preferences and Decision Drivers." If you can go down that list and think Detroit is ahead of Denver, Minneapolis, Atlanta, Chicago, Austin, and all the others on the listed criteria, I have a bridge to sell you. There are 8 criteria, of which Detroit probably does well in "Site/Building" and possibly "Logistics" depending on how they weight the different aspects listed. After that, there's nothing in the other 6 criteria where Detroit isn't obviously behind. For example, "Incentives" are listed as a "critical decision driver." Is there any reason to think Michigan is going to make a top 3 play on this score? Much less problems where Detroit is locked into a bottom rank compared to other cities, such as "Quality of Life" and "Labor Force."

The only hope is that Bezos decides they want to make a huge splash by playing on the Detroit "comeback" narrative and is therefore willing to overlook quality of life, access and appeal to talent, incentives, total lack of regional transit except for a few SMART buses, etc.

[313WX]

If you look at the Amazon requirements and are anything other than negative about Detroit's chances you should have your head examined.

Well fuck it then. Dan Gilbert and others around the region should just roll up into a ball in the corner and give up, because they're clearly wasting their time according to Junjie and the other armchair quarterbacks on here.

I liken this to applying for and landing a job. Amazon is the employer and the cities competing would be the potential employees. I see the RFP as a job description and the criteria as a wish list [[in other words, they're listing items that are strongly preferred, but not required). I see the bids cities submit as the interview stage. As an HR major, I can tell you that personality and cultural fit matters just as much as matching all of the requirements on paper. With Dan Gilbert and his unyielding charisma, if he works his mojo with Bezos and the executives as he has done with folks in Michigan, it maybe just enough to convince Amazon to overlook things were lacking and say "Hey, they match 4 out of 5 of the requirements and they're clearly working on addressing the 5th requirement, I like the energy and positivity they expressed, so I'm comfortable in taking a shot on them. This would also give us a blank slate to mold them into the vision that we have."

You can wallow in your doom and gloom all you want. My focus is on accentuating the positive in this effort, as this will be the opportunity for Detroit to finally experience the prosperity that cities such as Dallas or Seattle or Boston are enjoying [[instead of remaining in its current fledgling state). If Amazon chooses some other city, then fine [[whatever). But what good does it do to have such a defeatist attitude before the process has barely begin? Hell, if Atlanta projected the same mindset that you are, they would have never landed the 1996 Olympics.

[Junjie]

Well fuck it then. Dan Gilbert and others around the region should just roll up into a ball in the corner and give up, because they're clearly wasting their time according to Junjie and the other armchair quarterbacks on here.

Look, two things. One, I truly apologize for being rather, uh... aggressive in my last few posts here. This is a community of people and not just a comments section where we hurl insults. And so I'm sorry for projecting that tone or posting things that come across that way.

Two, though, can you please respond to what people said and not what you imagine them to have said? My point was simply that if you look realistically at the criteria, Detroit's chances are not good and people should not anticipate getting HQ2. Do I support the bid? Yes. Am I thrilled to see everyone from Gilbert to L. Brooks getting together behind this? Yes. Do I think it's worthwhile to go through this process even if it fails? Yes. I mean it. This is an incredible opportunity and it would be stupid for any city not to take its best shot. I think you are exactly right when you say "I liken this to applying for and landing a job," and if Detroit is going to get this bid it will happen in the way you describe. If your dream job opens up, you apply, even if you don't meet all the criteria and even though you might not get it.

The last thing I want to be is defeatist or doom and gloom. At the same time, if SE Michigan/Detroit don't get the bid, I hope that people can look at the criteria and realistically admit that the region has a lot of work to do to be tops in these categories that businesses like Amazon care about. What concerns me is if people are blasé or truly think that the Detroit area is plenty competitive with other cities already, and thus has little need to change or improve. And this RFP is a great chance to take a cold, objective look and hold the city and suburbs to some external standards.

[DetroitNightLights]

Detroit-Windsor is the best option for Amazon's HQ2. Detroit-Windsor has the best location for the price, in a superior urban downtown, with a wide array of transit options, with the best access to global talent. Detroit - Windsor meets or exceeds all the criteria of the Amazon RFP.

The International location allows for access to global talent from Canada without all the expensive real estate bubbles in other Canadian cities. If Detroit is considered to have cheap real estate in the U.S., Windsor has the cheap real estate in Canada. Detroit is home to the only U.S. Patent Office outside of Washington D.C. allowing for faster and easier communications when filing patents. Detroit is home to the consulate of Mexico, allowing for quick communications with the three biggest countries in North America. The main regional postal sorting center is located just outside of downtown Detroit, allowing for quick shipping times for letters and packages.

Other cities have nice downtowns with lots of transit options, but it is Detroit that will give you the best location near the largest transit terminals for the price. Downtown Detroit has a reliable downtown circulator, 5-10 minute public transit connecting to Canada, a large transit hub for regional buses, and a state of the art light rail line connecting key neighborhoods to the North. The Detroit light rail line also connects to a regional rail station, which is currently under development to connect downtown Detroit to educational hubs in Dearborn and Ann Arbor, and the metro's airport. Stations are already being constructed for this line and trains have already been purchased. Detroit has a superior bike sharing network, and an underused road network with lots of alternative routes for private drivers and car sharers.

Other top contenders do not have developable land in prominent downtown locations. Amazon should be given the best location for its new headquarters. A great online retailer and tech company needs a great location to attract talent. Does Amazon really want to be located in an old abandoned bullet factory or former toxic waste site? Amazon deserves to be in a vibrant downtown with transit, in prominent buildings, with room to expand.

Other top contenders seem to be having trouble putting together adequate tax incentives because they haven't got their books in order the way Detroit and Windsor has, or because they have a landed collection of headquarters that will baulk over the tax incentives, increased use of infrastructure, and increased pressure on their talent pools.

Detroit-Windsor's business community is generally welcoming, and eager to have others join in rebuilding North America through one of its world famous economic and manufacturing centers. Though no region is perfect, it is Detroit-Windsor that will cater most to the needs of Amazon, and so it is Deroit-Windsor who is the best place for Amazon.

[313WX]

At the same time, if SE Michigan/Detroit don't get the bid, I hope that people can look at the criteria and realistically admit that the region has a lot of work to do to be tops in these categories that businesses like Amazon care about. What concerns me is if people are blasé or truly think that the Detroit area is plenty competitive with other cities already, and thus has little need to change or improve. And this RFP is a great chance to take a cold, objective look and hold the city and suburbs to some external standards.

That's all good and well. I simply think we'd be best served taking the energy to focus on what you describe *AFTER* the process is complete and a decision has been made.

In the mean time, we should focus on playing the cards we've been dealt as good as possible and, I repeat, it should be all about accentuating the positives [[which there are plenty are).

[313WX]

Well this certainly won't help Minneapolis' chances [[not that the city *needs* Amazon)...

Dayton: State Will be 'Restrained' in Pursuit of 2nd Amazon Headquarters


http://kstp.com/politics/governor-ma...rsuit/4601082/

[douglasm]

Just for what it's worth, I read an article in today's Seattle Times that there are over a hundred separate regions, cities, states, etc. that have shown interest in HQ2. Not all of them will submit proposals by the deadline, but I'm going to assume at out of those 100 plus, the hand wringing and angst expressed by the 99 or so that aren't chosen next spring is going to be fierce.