Amazon Looking for a new HQ - Detroit-Windsor Bid Rejected

[davewindsor]

My point was pretty clear, which is that the US tax code has far more loopholes in it than other nations.

This was debunked earlier in the thread. The average corporation in the US only pays an effective tax rate of 12.6%, according to the GAO.

You're wrong.

According to a chart from the Congressional Budget Office from an article dated August 17, 2017 [[middle of article), the average US Corporation [[after they go through all the credits and deductions) pays an effective tax rate of 18.6% [[not 12.6% like you claim). On that same comparison chart of countries, Canada's effective tax rate is 8.5% ===> http://www.npr.org/2017/08/07/541797...e-in-the-world


Canada's effective Corporate tax rate is more than half the US effective Corporate tax rate.

I never said they won't get tax benefits from the move. But you seemed to imply that was the *main* reason driving their move to Canada, which is not the case.

Proof?

It was the main reason, otherwise they would have stayed in Miami or moved to another state rather than move to Canada.

[313WX]

Proof?

It was the main reason, otherwise they would have stayed in Miami or moved to another state rather than move to Canada.

The fact that they would have encountered quite a bit of push the back in the merger from Canadian regulators had they proposed to keep their headquarters in US, as well as the fact that they depend heavily on Tim Hortons' revenue to pay down their debt were largely the reasons behind the move.

[davewindsor]

Not sure if it has already been mentioned but doesn't Amazon already have a presence in Detroit?

http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...tech/72797396/

Don't forget to add the two fulfilment centers under construction: one in Livonia in a million sq. ft warehouse that will employ 1,000 almost completed, and the other in Romulus that will employ 1,600. They are apparently supposed to be the new regional distribution centers for the entire mid-west.

[davewindsor]

The fact that they would have encountered quite a bit of push the back in the merger from Canadian regulators had they proposed to keep their headquarters in US, as well as the fact that they depend heavily on Tim Hortons' revenue to pay down their debt were largely the reasons behind the move.

Complete nonsense. Proof?

[rbdetsport]

I wrote some thoughts on my blog yesterday about the possibility of Amazon [[and transit) in Detroit..

https://planningnerdblog.com/2017/09...of-the-amazon/

[313WX]

[QUOTE=davewindsor;533128]

You're wrong.

According to a chart from the Congressional Budget Office from an article dated August 17, 2017 [[middle of article), the average US Corporation [[after they go through all the credits and deductions) pays an effective tax rate of 18.6% [[not 12.6% like you claim). On that same comparison chart of countries, Canada's effective tax rate is 8.5% ===> http://www.npr.org/2017/08/07/541797...e-in-the-world


Canada's effective Corporate tax rate is more than half the US effective Corporate tax rate.[/QUOTE]

I would love to know the methodology behind those numbers, because the below study says otherwise:

https://www.gao.gov/assets/680/675844.pdf

[313WX]

Complete nonsense.

Not at all.

http://irpp.org/wp-content/uploads/a...Study-no40.pdf

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/04/bu.../04potash.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/burger-...ppers-of-debt/

[davewindsor]

[QUOTE=313WX;533134]

You're wrong.

According to a chart from the Congressional Budget Office from an article dated August 17, 2017 [[middle of article), the average US Corporation [[after they go through all the credits and deductions) pays an effective tax rate of 18.6% [[not 12.6% like you claim). On that same comparison chart of countries, Canada's effective tax rate is 8.5% ===> http://www.npr.org/2017/08/07/541797...e-in-the-world


Canada's effective Corporate tax rate is more than half the US effective Corporate tax rate.[/QUOTE]

I would love to know the methodology behind those numbers, because the below study says otherwise:

https://www.gao.gov/assets/680/675844.pdf

Do you always throw books at people without referencing what section you are talking about? Horrible research. There's no international comparison of effective tax rates. In fact, it seems that large corporations pay a lot more than the congressional study I cited.

Let's look at page 34 of your study compiled from IRS data:

Table 6: Average Effective Tax Rates for All Large Corporations [[Schedule M-3 filers), Tax Years 2006 through 2012



Federal Effective Tax Rates

Actual tax paid 25.9 %


Worldwide Effective Tax Rates

Actual tax paid 40.1%

Source: GAO analysis of IRS data

for Schedule M

-3 filers.

l GAO

-16-
363

Notes: The worldwide effective tax rates are based on the worldwide income and taxes

—including federal, foreign, and U.S. state and local income taxes

—of entities included in the federal tax return.

Sounds like large corporations like BK would have been paying a lot more under your study if they stayed in the US.

[davewindsor]

Not at all.

http://irpp.org/wp-content/uploads/a...Study-no40.pdf

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/04/bu.../04potash.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/burger-...ppers-of-debt/

More nonsense. Do you enjoy throwing random books at people? What does the first book and article prove about BK?

The second article is talking about the world's largest potash mining operation that produces half the world's supply, not restaurants, let alone BK. It becomes an antitrust issue because it was an attempt at Billiton Mining Australia trying to build a monopoly in the potash industry. And your article states, "It was only the second time that the Canadian government had turned down a bid in the 25-year history of the current foreign investment law."

BTW, twice in 25 years of the Canadian government getting involved in any kind of takeover is a very rare event.

If we were talking about the takeover of a mining company a fraction of the size, the Canadian government wouldn't care. China, for example, has been buying up small Canadian mining operations including uranium mines without any Canadian government opposition.

Likewise, the US government can also stop monopolies from forming in the US under the Sherman Antitrust Act, which was first tested in 1911 when the Supreme Court ordered the breakup of Rockefeller's Standard Oil monopoly.

The government getting involved to stop monopolies is nothing new, let alone something unique to Canada, making your article irrelevant to the discussion about BK merging with Tim Horton's.

The third article you cited talks about BK's BB rating in 2010. Maybe relevant if I had a time machine to go back to 2010 to decide whether to long or short BK stock in 2010, but otherwise useless and irrelevant.

[313WX]

UM helps effort to lure Amazon’s ‘HQ2’ to Detroit

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...-hq/105500358/

[313WX]

More nonsense.

Fine, believe whatever crap you want. Doesn't make it right.

To say the main reason they move was for tax purposes when they were paying roughly the exact same tax rate in the US before the merger is absurd.

[313WX]

[QUOTE=davewindsor;533136]

Do you always throw books at people without referencing what section you are talking about?

For your information, the rate was based on PROFITABLE large corporations, not ALL.

[davewindsor]

Fine, believe whatever crap you want. Doesn't make it right.

To say the main reason they move was for tax purposes when they were paying roughly the exact same tax rate in the US before the merger is absurd.

What's absurd is saying they pay exactly the same tax rate when there's evidence to the contrary.

[emu steve]

N.Y. Times went through a big list of cities and came up with 3 finalists and their choices was: Denver.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...l?mcubz=0&_r=0

[davewindsor]

N.Y. Times went through a big list of cities and came up with 3 finalists and their choices was: Denver.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...l?mcubz=0&_r=0

And this is why the New York Times is known as Fake News. It's an empty propaganda piece. Why was Grand Rapids taken out of the running? Grand Rapids is going all in to woo them with a proposal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZqhrQzvPrc No answer from Fake News.

Why was Detroit taken out of the running?

No explanation other than the article saying it's just a sentimental pick and therefore should be scratched off. They were quick to strike Chicago off the list because they said the "finances of Illinois are a wreck." I'll accept that. But, why Detroit? Nothing. Just prejudice. Have these ignorant journalists even set foot in Detroit lately? Are they even aware of what Metro Detroit has to offer? I guess Metro Detroit, let alone Detroit proper, doesn't have any "quality of life" like Denver.

The MCS more than meets all their requirements and it's a really nice walk from Corktown to Downtown with a lot of new development in the area.

If Bezos just wanted a HQ south of Washington, why doesn't he just choose his birth state of New Mexico?

Michigan is going to get it. Washington State is a lot like Michigan. It is another northern state like Washington that borders Canada [[and I think that is why Detroit is at the top of their list of picks). Another reason they want to expand elsewhere is because Seattle won't work with them anymore. Detroit does want to work with them and it also meets all their requirements.

I really think Detroit is going to get it because I haven't seen anything that would knock them down from that top 3 list other than fake news propaganda pieces.

[warsaw7]

I really think Detroit is going to get it because I haven't seen anything that would knock them down from that top 3 list other than fake news propaganda pieces.

Keep dreaming buddy...

http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/11/tech...ies/index.html

[Bham1982]

And this is why the New York Times is known as Fake News. It's an empty propaganda piece. Why was Grand Rapids taken out of the running? Grand Rapids is going all in to woo them with a proposal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZqhrQzvPrc No answer from Fake News.

No one but crazed Trump cultists think the NY Times, the most esteemed English language news source on the planet, is "fakenews".

Even Trump knows it isn't "fakenews". He chose the NY Times for his first Presidential interview. It's the English language paper of record.

GR wasn't included in the analysis because it doesn't meet Amazon's size requirements nor its transit requirements. Read the article, and it's quite clear.

[401don]

The MCS more than meets all their requirements and it's a really nice walk from Corktown to Downtown with a lot of new development in the area.

As much as I'd like to see Detroit get it, somehow I think transit, tech talent, crime rate, good schools, etc. may just beat an abandoned train station that's a nice mile and a half walk to downtown.

[davewindsor]

Keep dreaming buddy...

http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/11/tech...ies/index.html

Not surprising that the Counterfeit News Network would ignore discussing Detroit. It's called "propaganda", buddy. When you discuss certain major cities you like and ignore discussing other valid choices to limit the discussion, that's what it's called.

[EGrant]

Let me guess, Breitbart and Fox and Friends are the only news sources we should trust? Hokay.

Anyway, did they give a date for when they will decide? If by some chance Detroit wins, I would immediately invest in real estate. If you think the housing market in Metro Detroit is competitive now...

[davewindsor]

No one but crazed Trump cultists think the NY Times, the most esteemed English language news source on the planet, is "fakenews".

Even Trump knows it isn't "fakenews". He chose the NY Times for his first Presidential interview. It's the English language paper of record.

GR wasn't included in the analysis because it doesn't meet Amazon's size requirements nor its transit requirements. Read the article, and it's quite clear.

Trump has repeatedly called the NY Times "Fake News" and that they are a failing newspaper that's loosing money.

Trump himself said he chose the NY Times for his interview for the free publicity, not because he respects them or holds them in any esteem. So you're outright lying like the NY Times.

When the President of the US and leader of the free world calls a newspaper "Fake News", it becomes relegated to supermarket tabloid journalism at its finest peak of garbage like the National Enquirer that no one can nor should trust.

[davewindsor]

As much as I'd like to see Detroit get it, somehow I think transit, tech talent, crime rate, good schools, etc. may just beat an abandoned train station that's a nice mile and a half walk to downtown.

OK, let's say you're right, just for the sake of argument. Then, why was metro Detroit excluded?? There are plenty of metro suburbs that could fit the bill. Troy has a low crime rate and good schools. Why are there so many multi-million dollar houses and mansions all over these Detroit suburbs if there's no talent or quality of life. You think all these millionaires and billionaires that live in metro are all just old money? The MCS is just one of the many locations that could be picked in Metro Detroit.

[davewindsor]

Let me guess, Breitbart and Fox and Friends are the only news sources we should trust? Hokay.

Hokay, so you're going to go off an a tangent here and try to make this a political discussion now? I thought this thread was about why Amazon should choose metro Detroit for its HQ2.

[warsaw7]

Not surprising that the Counterfeit News Network would ignore discussing Detroit. It's called "propaganda", buddy. When you discuss certain major cities you like and ignore discussing other valid choices to limit the discussion, that's what it's called.

I'm not your buddy guy. Your comment is stupid and absurd. The reason CNN did not include Detroit, is because Detroit will not get it. Detroit does not stand a chance due to high crime, poor education, lack of mass transit [[among many other lack of's).

[401don]

OK, let's say you're right, just for the sake of argument. Then, why was metro Detroit excluded?? There are plenty of metro suburbs that could fit the bill. Troy has a low crime rate and good schools. Why are there so many multi-million dollar houses and mansions all over these Detroit suburbs if there's no talent or quality of life. You think all these millionaires and billionaires that live in metro are all just old money? The MCS is just one of the many locations that could be picked in Metro Detroit.

Walkable and transit.