Amazon Looking for a new HQ - Detroit-Windsor Bid Rejected

[Bham1982]

Pretty much all across Europe and Scandinavia the shift in elected officials is the voice that shows people are leaning away from that form of governorship.

This is basically all wrong. Western Europe has never been closer to the social welfare model than right now. Scandanavia, in particular, has never had a higher tax burden than now, BTW.

Sweden's prime minister, BTW, is a Social Democrat [[AKA Bernie-AOC).

But middle class is subjective to location and carries a wide range of definitions,somebody living on a middle class salary in Detroit may be considered not even close to it in some cities in California or New York City.

This isn't true either. Obviously the same currency counts the same anywhere with in the U.S.

COL differences are based on differences in housing valuations, but obviously your salary isn't lower because your home is more valuable. That would mean someone in Highland Park earning X salary is richer than someone in Bloomfield earning the same.

[Wesley Mouch]

Which topic hasn't been covered.......hmmmmmmmm ?
Is Jeff Bezos a NeoNazi sympathizer - maybe

https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/17/1...on-hate-groups

Neo-Nazi merchandise available on Amazon,
from a burning cross baby onesie to a
neo-Nazi Pepe the Frog fidget spinner.
Several white supremacist writers’ works were available on Kindle.
...
I think anything goes if it can make a profit..........

Thought policing is currently quite popular.

I prefer to let bad ideas be exposed to sunlight, not to censorship.

Do I think burning cross onesies are in good taste? No. Do I think we should suppress them. No.

I get further from your thinking when you suggest that Bezos and Co. should ban 'white supremacist' writing. How does banning sales of someone's writing help eliminate bad thinking? I don't think it does. Better to let that crap be sold and read. Censorship is almost always a bad idea with bad results [[pushing its communications underground).

P.S. Guilt by association is also really destructive thinking [[Bezos is sympathizer).

[Richard]

This is basically all wrong. Western Europe has never been closer to the social welfare model than right now. Scandanavia, in particular, has never had a higher tax burden than now, BTW.

Sweden's prime minister, BTW, is a Social Democrat [[AKA Bernie-AOC).


This isn't true either. Obviously the same currency counts the same anywhere with in the U.S.

COL differences are based on differences in housing valuations, but obviously your salary isn't lower because your home is more valuable. That would mean someone in Highland Park earning X salary is richer than someone in Bloomfield earning the same.

Do you meen the one that was ousted but then re-voted back in after agreeing to consessions?

As part of the agreement, the Social Democrats and Greens signed onto a 73-point declaration of intent that is heavy on conservative policies like mandatory language testing to become a citizen, lower taxes and weaker employment protection rules. It also ruled out any influence from the Left Party, the heir to the old Communist Party.


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/18/w...overnment.html

What happens when you lower taxes? You have to cut somewhere and social programs are usually the easiest.

Their 40 year social experiment coming to a close.

[archfan]

<Swedish parties agree to things to form a coalition government>

Their 40 year social experiment coming to a close.

They won't cut out the flagship social programs like universal healthcare and college tuition, just as the US won't cut out our flagship social program, Social Security.

[archfan]

If you have a link to research showing the majority of people in Scandinavian countries are unhappy, I'd like to see it.

Sweden on moving away from that model
...
Denmark to Bernie
...

Right, there aren't any.

[Richard]

Right, there aren't any.

Or maybe some do not perfer the context of the bigger picture.

[O3H]

I posted the Neo Nazi stuff AMAZON sold as a bit of a farce,
even if it was an absolute fact and true.

Putting a topic heading is basically mute on DYES,
zombies becomes black holes becomes antichrist becomes jello eventually

[EGrant]

"Guys, guys, that nazi stuff was just a joke!"

[O3H]

Thought police are patrolling

[Wesley Mouch]

If you're interested in the Amazon withdrawl from NYC, you might find this post by the NY State Budget director on the official state website of interest:

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/ope...garding-amazon

[313WX]

No one feels sorry for NYC.

It is arguably the finance and media capitol of the world [[and if not the world, definitely the US). It will be fine.

[archfan]

If you're interested in the Amazon withdrawl from NYC, you might find this post by the NY State Budget director on the official state website of interest:

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/ope...garding-amazon

Interesting. The NY Senate was going to give its decision-making authority to a senator who was for the project, but didn't when it switched. When they were deciding who to appoint instead, Amazon called and asked if the appointee would be in favor of Amazon. The Senate wouldn't commit to that, and so Amazon took its ball and left.

Pretty aggressive move, but sounds like Amazon. It's a probably a good thing Detroit didn't get a piece of HQ. Detroit/Michigan would acquiesce to everything Amazon asked for.

[iheartthed]

If you're interested in the Amazon withdrawl from NYC, you might find this post by the NY State Budget director on the official state website of interest:

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/ope...garding-amazon

Not sure why the governor is doubling down on this narrative. Amazon decided to leave on its own. It was not blocked.

[stasu1213]

Detroit have more land mass to offer Amazon for a much cheaper price than what New York had to offer. Too bad that we don’t have a good negotiator such as Kwame Kilpatricck who could had place a bug in Amazon’s ear

[Wesley Mouch]

Not sure why the governor is doubling down on this narrative.

Yeah, pretty interesting. The Democratic Governor [[by way of budget director) calling out a labor union isn't something you see every day. There's something interesting behind this, to be sure. We know Cuomo and DiBlasio are mortal enemies. Now, with no R's to kick around in NY, the D's seem to be turning on each other.

Amazon decided to leave on its own. It was not blocked.

Not sure your point here. Mr. Budget didn't say they were blocked, the appointment of Gianaris [[D & flip-flopper) to some commission gave him the power to kill the deal.

And that language 'local senator'? How about that? And that 'if you wondering if that might be illegal' comment? I almost don't think this must be a fake page.

Agreed. AMZN pulled out voluntarily. Still looks to me like they realized that they didn't really have a deal -- just the chance to start negotiating with a den of thieves, it seems.

Great read, eh?

[Zacha341]

Or he could have made them an offer they 'can't refuse'...

Detroit have more land mass to offer Amazon for a much cheaper price than what New York had to offer. Too bad that we don’t have a good negotiator such as Kwame Kilpatricck who could had place a bug in Amazon’s ear

[Bham1982]

Detroit have more land mass to offer Amazon for a much cheaper price than what New York had to offer.

Pretty sure that has nothing to do with anything.

Basically anywhere in the U.S. "has more land mass to offer at cheaper price" than NYC. That isn't the point, or they would somewhere with near-worthless land like rural North Dakota, delta Mississippi, etc.

[iheartthed]

Agreed. AMZN pulled out voluntarily. Still looks to me like they realized that they didn't really have a deal -- just the chance to start negotiating with a den of thieves, it seems.

This is the thing. It would be one thing if they pulled out because they realized they couldn't get a deal, and that would make them look a little better than what actually happened. The truth is that they likely would have gotten the deal. Michael Gianaris was appointed to the Public Authorities Control Board, which had the authority to block the deal, but the governor has veto authority over appointments to the board. He would veto the Gianaris appointment if that was going to block the deal.

What Amazon belatedly realized is that this whole spectacle they orchestrated coupled was bound to invite scrutiny. And choosing a location in NYC, right in the backyard of the national media, would open them up to years of bad PR.

My strong suspicion is that whatever jobs that would have ever materialized in NYC under this HQ2 deal will still materialize in NYC. NYC is a city that businesses locate to for strategic reasons, and if Amazon needed to be here then this is the only place that could fill its objectives. It is not a generic Sun Belt city that has to bribe companies because they don't have material differences between them.

[Richard]

^ But yet they were offered up to 7 billion in tax incentives over 20 years,looks like a bribe to me anyways.

[Wesley Mouch]

This is the thing. It would be one thing if they pulled out because they realized they couldn't get a deal, and that would make them look a little better than what actually happened. The truth is that they likely would have gotten the deal. Michael Gianaris was appointed to the Public Authorities Control Board, which had the authority to block the deal, but the governor has veto authority over appointments to the board. He would veto the Gianaris appointment if that was going to block the deal.

Yes, but 'appointment then veto' does suggest that NYS/NYC was not fully behind their offer. Gianaris and others were deal supporters at other times.

What Amazon belatedly realized is that this whole spectacle they orchestrated coupled was bound to invite scrutiny. And choosing a location in NYC, right in the backyard of the national media, would open them up to years of bad PR.

Probably a factor, but seems a stretch. The easier more obvious answer is 'cold feet' by local officials, when faced with highly visible 'minority' resistance.

When a governor's office pens this letter, it doesn't support Amazon being the one with cold feet. Cuomo could have even hinted at bad Amazon. He didn't.

My strong suspicion is that whatever jobs that would have ever materialized in NYC under this HQ2 deal will still materialize in NYC. NYC is a city that businesses locate to for strategic reasons, and if Amazon needed to be here then this is the only place that could fill its objectives. It is not a generic Sun Belt city that has to bribe companies because they don't have material differences between them.

This is under-discussed. Everyone is so focused on the tax credits as the major factor. I don't think it was. AMZN still will hire where it makes sense. And they'll probably still get some tax credits. What may not happen is targeted investment in Queens [[LIC) -- or at least in the way that was worth NYS/NYC penning a 'bid'.

So each of us believes what we want to believe.

I believe that NYC/NYS got too greedy -- and should be careful because their future is more precarious than they think.

You believe that Amazon was too greedy -- and lost out by not kissing the glorious ring of NYC.

And so shall it ever be. Heart vs. Mouch.

Maybe we're both right.

[iheartthed]

^ But yet they were offered up to 7 billion in tax incentives over 20 years,looks like a bribe to me anyways.

But they got far better offers from other cities, including Detroit. If it was about the incentives then they would have chosen Detroit instead of eliminating it in the first round.

This was just a big dog and pony show to get a deal for moving jobs to places they had already decided to put jobs.

[iheartthed]

When a governor's office pens this letter, it doesn't support Amazon being the one with cold feet. Cuomo could have even hinted at bad Amazon. He didn't.

I don't get why Cuomo is doing this other than to score some political points. It has been well reported that Amazon completely blindsided them with this decision, and Amazon's decision wasn't the result of a stalemate in the negotiating process. The negotiations were moving in Amazon's favor. Maybe he and de Blasio are coordinating a good cop/bad cop response, since they both have been uncharacteristically careful not to attack each other in the fall out.

I believe that NYC/NYS got too greedy -- and should be careful because their future is more precarious than they think.

You believe that Amazon was too greedy -- and lost out by not kissing the glorious ring of NYC.

And so shall it ever be. Heart vs. Mouch.

Maybe we're both right.

Again, I'm not just giving my opinion here. I have followed this story very closely. First, this tax incentive deal was largely done between the state and Amazon. NYC doesn't offer tax incentives for corporate relocations, and the deal was even criticized by super pro-business former mayor Michael Bloomberg for offering tax incentives. But more importantly, the deal was never in any serious jeopardy of being cancelled by New York:

Both the mayor’s and the governor’s offices reassured Amazon executives that, despite the vocal criticism, the deal they had negotiated would be approved. But the company appeared upset at even a moderate level of resistance, said the person, who, like many of the people describing private conversations at the company and with elected officials, did so on the condition of anonymity.
...
Over time, opposition to Amazon had spread from the specifics of the deal to the company’s corporate practices. Elected officials and activists in New York drew attention to the company’s anti-union stance and its work with federal immigration officials — positions unpopular with Democratic leaders across the country.
...
Some unions supported the deal, and even those opposed had appeared willing to work with Amazon if the company agreed to not work against the unionization of its employees in New York. An Amazon representative, during one council hearing, pointedly said the company would not agree to such terms.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/14/nyregion/amazon-hq2-queens.html

As I said, I have not seen a single major news source report that the deal was ever in serious jeopardy of being canceled by state or local political opposition. There was an executive meeting the weekend before Amazon announced their decision, which is likely when the decision was made to cut the LIC project. The reason they did it is because they didn't want to weather the bad press, and not because the state was in jeopardy of canceling the project.

[O3H]

Amazon exists in Michigan, over in Romulus, Brownstown, Livonia, Shelby
New buildings, with many people working the peak holiday season.

Michigan did just fine with Amazon

[313WX]

Amazon exists in Michigan, over in Romulus, Brownstown, Livonia, Shelby
New buildings, with many people working the peak holiday season.

Those are low wage, low skilled, non-union jobs.

Hardly comparable in terms of the economic multiplier to HQ2.

[O3H]

Just like Chrysler/Fiat - and people seem that's like wonderful news.
Union has nothing to do with it. Amazon needed skilled labor to construct
those miles of conveyors, PLC controllers, servos, and robotics as well.
Someone poured 850,000 square feet of industrial concrete for a 4 story
building in the Romulus facility which houses 1,000's of robots.