Amazon Looking for a new HQ - Detroit-Windsor Bid Rejected

[iheartthed]

Makes little sense, there isn't a magical knowledge on how to run a business that only unlocks the minute you move to a million dollar shack in San Jose.

Of course it doesn't make sense to you. You obviously have no insight into scalable entrepreneur ventures. I'm relaying information directly to you from the horses mouths. You can take it or leave it.

[iheartthed]

Ihearthed—— usually one supports things that they would be willing to be a participant in.

I support a border security wall and would stand in defense on it,just as I supported the military in defense of the country and served in it.

There is a certain irony in a billionaire supporting and pushing UBI when they will never have to contribute to it and would actually profit from it.

The border wall is an amercian thing,no difference then supporting the military,LEO,Homeland Security or any other protections put in place.

The object is to lessen the odds.

I support policy’s that would make cities such as Detroit a better place for all,because it is a part of the bigger picture,even though I do not live there it still effects my life and the countries well being as a whole.

Even though I do not like Amazon as a whole, thier investment,no matter where it lands,will or should make it a better place for those it directly effects which in turn helps the country as a whole.

You can say,so what,they will survive without that investment but that is 25,000 people that may think differently,given the opportunity,and providing that was a real number,how many times does that opportunity come up for a city?

Like I posted,5 years from now the ones that made that decision today will not even be in the same location,they cannot stop progress,they think that they can by stacking the deck so high that investment moves on but eventually lack of investment kills it.

There was Detroit,a shining example to the rest of the country,you think that they would have woke up,but maybe not.

They being the rest of the country,and no intent as disrespect towards Detroit,it was a worst case example that is becoming a positive example.

It did not take a Republican or a Democrat,it took the will of the people and the ability to except reasonable change.

They did not want Amazon there because it would have increased rents and removed one of the last affordable living sections in a land locked area,if they got a job at Amazon maybe their pay would have increased to where housing costs were not an issue.

Or they could have done what Detroit did and say for every X amount of houseing X amount remains affordable living or a million other ways,as it stands all they really did was retain space to keep people trapped with no hope so they cannot have a better life or kicked the can down the road.

They could of went to the table with Amazon and came up with all kinds of solutions and worked together.

But no,like the guy said Amazon supports ICE and deportations and is anti union. Okay fair enough,is the guy behind it all living in a crappy apartment with little future? That is now 25,000 people locally that will pay for that decision for decades to come,maybe it was worth it.

Not sure why you think billionaires don't pay taxes.

[Richard]

Not sure why you think billionaires don't pay taxes.

Because Bernie said so.

Amazon

Those wondering how many zeros Amazon, which is valued at nearly $800 billion, has to pay in federal taxes might be surprised to learn that its check to the IRS will read exactly $0.00.

http://fortune.com/2019/02/14/amazon...al-taxes-2019/

if you are Warren Buffett, you take your pay in retained earnings and you pay very little in taxes. Buffett earned a measly $100,000 a year for most of the last 20 years. His current net worth is around $35 billion. His marginal tax rate was around 28%, meaning he paid something like $25,000 a year in taxes in theory.

Please explain to me how we can tax the evil corporations and billionaires in order to pay for social reform,you do not,you personally have to except your personal tax burden of 35 to 70% in order to pay for it.

Just like your fellow New Yorkers have excepted that it was worth giving up 25,000 jobs and their income potential in order to protect illegals.

I have to admit it does take conviction to live without opportunity so others can prosper while you personally sink.I guess it is commendable,if that is the word I am looking for.

[313WX]

Because Bernie said so.

Do you have a source to back up that claim?

[Richard]

Do you have a source to back up that claim?

Yes,read the link that I posted and you will see his tweet.

[iheartthed]

Yes,read the link that I posted and you will see his tweet.

Amazon is a c-corp. Bezos, like everyone else, still has to pay personal income taxes on realized income [[which is whatever he takes from the company and puts in his own pocket). Net worth is different from income, and can fluctuate wildly based on the market value of a person's holdings.

[313WX]

Yes,read the link that I posted and you will see his tweet.

Amazon is a corporation, not an billionaire.

Furthermore, what exactly did Bernie say about Amazon in that tweet that was false?

[Wesley Mouch]

Those wondering how many zeros Amazon, which is valued at nearly $800 billion, has to pay in federal taxes might be surprised to learn that its check to the IRS will read exactly $0.00.

Unpopular opinions are, well, unpopular. So here goes.

Corporations should NOT pay income tax. Only people should pay income tax.

We want corporations to make as much money as possible, and to use that money to either improve their business [[Bezos) or pay dividends back to shareholders [[DTE, J&J).

The increased amount of spending then is taxed when its paid out to shareholders. [[Unless that shareholder is a pension fund like CALPERS, aren't they the biggest investor in the world? Or close to it.)

Or the corporation uses the money to invest. Building warehouses [[Bezos) -- employing construction workers. Hiring staff [[everyone). Developing a new way to make money [[AirBnB unlocking value for homeowners instead of hotels.).

If you want to raise taxes on high-income earners, I may quibble, but its better than taxing corporations. Taxing Corps just eats away at growth. And as you can see from our current economy, growth is great for everyone. Wages are rising. Unemployment is down. Demand for skills is through the roof.

[iheartthed]

Unpopular opinions are, well, unpopular. So here goes.

Corporations should NOT pay income tax. Only people should pay income tax.

Do you agree with corporate personhood?

[Richard]

Amazon is a corporation, not an billionaire.

Furthermore, what exactly did Bernie say about Amazon in that tweet that was false?

Geez and I thought it was better to post examples of both corporations and private billionaire taxes paid.

I guess I should have split it up in order to avoid the confusion and I never said what Bernie said was false,no point in posting links if not being read and understood.

The point is no matter what you are told at the end of the day,we are the plebs and will pay for what we wish for,it is simple,all you have to do is look at your yearly tax rate and adjust it to 35 to 70% and see where you will be at in life.

That is how it works,more taxes to pay for more services advailable,the more taxes you pay the less spendable income you have,the further you fall down the line until your place in line is waiting for the check to pay the rent.

Salaries do not go up according to a rising tax rate.It is not that difficult.

[Worldsgreatest]

Of course it doesn't make sense to you. You obviously have no insight into scalable entrepreneur ventures. I'm relaying information directly to you from the horses mouths. You can take it or leave it.

You have little insight either. I've heard all of this sort of stuff about VC before and it's pretty basic commonly relayed knowledge everybody already knows. hardly from the horse's mouth. really every random betty at walmart's mouth.

All I said about tech and VC spreading is factual

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2...capital-deals/

the bay does not have this infinite monopoly on VC, sorry to say it's not akin to the auto industry.

[archfan]

I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy.
...
Tons of information out there,bottom line is there is no system in the world that has not been tried before in the last 500 years,so it is not like anybody is coming up with the latest and greatest.

This gets old. Something is either black or white, there is never any gray. Either we're a full, John Galt, laissez faire economy, or the Bolsheviks are a'marching in.

The Scandinavian countries are democracies, with market economies, just like the United States. Unlike the United States, they have universal health care, along with other backstops for the poor. The majority of people living there seem pretty satisfied with that.

Some people would like to try some of their ideas here, because, for instance, they're tired of people dying because they can't afford their insulin. We've never tried that before. Maybe it will work; we may find out soon.

[Bham1982]

There is no advantage to having workers in the bay area it's probably very inefficient now to be based there and undesirable for companies because of the extreme competition.

LOL. This is funny stuff. All those dummies in SV. Why don't they move to Saginaw?

In the real world, industries are concentrated in certain areas because they want the talent. And SV, beyond the human capital, specifically benefits from the [[irreplacable) startup ecosystem/feedback loop.

[Bham1982]

Richard Branson,Zuckerberg and Musk are all staunch supporters of UBI [[universal basic income) all billionaires many times over,but notice how they are not willing to give all of that up and work for the UBI wage?

Bizarre non-logic. Why isn't someone allowed to support decent minimum wages while not simultaneously sacrificing all their wealth or refusing to be paid?

If I support, say, high speed rail, should I be banned from driving? If I support a $12 minimum wage, I should have no right to be paid $13 in my employment?

I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy.

Of course Denmark isn't a pure Socialist economy [[nor is Venezuela), but then what are we talking about? AOC and Bernie don't support pure Socialism, obviously. They support social welfare states [[aka Denmark).

[Bham1982]

And as you can see from our current economy, growth is great for everyone. Wages are rising. Unemployment is down. Demand for skills is through the roof.

Except we had all the same when corporate taxes were much higher. And the strongest economy in U.S. history was when corporate taxes were highest [[postwar era).

And you won't find a mainstream economist, Left or Right, who agrees with your sentiments [[that the current economy is sound because corporate taxes were slashed). The general consensus is that it was a giveaway to competitor nations, whose corps now have lower tax burden while availing themselves of the U.S. market.

[Zacha341]

I think we have increasingly a 'mixed' economy here in the US. A blend of many forms of money transferrals, from buyers to manufacturers, imports, income [[above ground and under), distribution of money, marketing, free and closed.

Capitalistic, independent, dependent and socialist in some areas; varied per the political casting [[though not exclusively so) of state leadership/ ideology. That's in part is how we have economy variations from say Arizona vs. New York.

[Richard]

Bizarre non-logic. Why isn't someone allowed to support decent minimum wages while not simultaneously sacrificing all their wealth or refusing to be paid?

If I support, say, high speed rail, should I be banned from driving? If I support a $12 minimum wage, I should have no right to be paid $13 in my employment?


Of course Denmark isn't a pure Socialist economy [[nor is Venezuela), but then what are we talking about? AOC and Bernie don't support pure Socialism, obviously. They support social welfare states [[aka Denmark).

[/INDENT]

What is bizarre is when the discussion was about UBI you flip it into not supporting decent minimum wages.

You do understand the difference between the two,correct?

UBI

UBI is also known simply as basic income. According to the advocacy group Basic Income Earth Network [[BIEN), the essential principle behind basic income is the idea that all citizens are entitled to a livable income, whether or not they contribute to production and despite the particular circumstances into which they are born.

https://whatis.techtarget.com/defini...sic-income-UBI

A livable income is subject to change per any given city.

A city that has a low cost of living and cheap rents,okay,everybody gets a check for $1500 per month and can survive,but what happens when you get to cities that have minimum rents of $2500?

You are talking about millions of people moving around the country into cities where they can afford to live on UBI,which creates demand and drives prices up so then they move again.

It is section 8 with a fancy name and corraling the low income back into large centers,instead of actually providing them with a means or skill set in order to improve their situation.

[Richard]

This gets old. Something is either black or white, there is never any gray. Either we're a full, John Galt, laissez faire economy, or the Bolsheviks are a'marching in.

The Scandinavian countries are democracies, with market economies, just like the United States. Unlike the United States, they have universal health care, along with other backstops for the poor. The majority of people living there seem pretty satisfied with that.

Some people would like to try some of their ideas here, because, for instance, they're tired of people dying because they can't afford their insulin. We've never tried that before. Maybe it will work; we may find out soon.

I posted the link and there is tons of research out there where the majority of people living in Scandinavia are not satisfied and it is easy to look at established healthcare systems and see that they may be the answer for a majority but short of the target goal of helping all.

So billions of dollars spent while not achieving a goal.

Nothing wrong with trying new things,it happens all of the time,they are called social experiments.

The problem is when they fail it can take generations to recover and it effects millions in a negative way.

To pick on California again and as an example they choose a path but where is it headed for in the future.

According to Edelman, 63 percent of millennials in the 2019 survey indicated they were considering a move from sunny California. The chief reason for dissatisfaction: housing.

Taxes are a real killer if you're upper middle class and whether you're a younger person trying to buy a house or you just want to be able to spend what you make," said Kotkin. "There's also concern among people looking to retire and having their income taxed into oblivion."
At 12.3 percent, California led the 50 states in 2018 with the highest top marginal tax rate, according to the Federation of Tax Administrators. And that doesn't include an additional 1-percent surcharge for those Californians with incomes of $1 million or more.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/12/grow...aboolainternal


What happens to a city when you have a brain drain of the younger generation and retirees with accumulated wealth that leave?

Are there any examples of cities in this country where that has already happened that we can learn by?


Who replaces all of those bodies? Maybe that is California’s version of a social experiment,provide sanctuary for illegals and that creates bodies,but it comes at a price which is paid for at a cost of higher taxes on those left and a larger division between the haves and have nots,eventually it becomes a spiral out of control.

Then to slow the spiral the solution is UBI which costs even more taxes in order to pay for.

It is a never ending revolution of looking for solutions to problems that were created by looking for solutions to problems.

[iheartthed]

Does New York Still Have a Future in Tech?

A growing body of economic research suggests that a company’s success depends on the entire ecosystem that surrounds it, not just the quality of its workers. Having good neighbors, even competitors, improves the productivity and creativity of companies and their workers. Innovative firms have an incentive to locate near other innovative firms. It is a tipping-point dynamic: Once a city attracts some innovative workers and companies, its ecosystem changes in ways that make it even more attractive.economists have a term for this: “agglomeration effects.”

...

Since existing economic studies of agglomeration effects in American cities are typically based on many companies, not just Amazon, and many cities, not just New York, it is difficult to offer predictions of the exact magnitude of the effect. But based on a majority of the existing economic literature, it appears safe to say that the impact on the New York labor market will be noticeable.

What should New York do next? Because the region already has a large base of potential high-tech employees and an ability to attract more, subsidies are not necessarily the best strategy. It may be more effective in the long run to provide spaces for research and development, such as the Cornell Tech campus on Roosevelt Island, which was designed to attract graduate students with a strong interest in working for tech companies or starting their own. Fostering their creativity — and avoiding the bitter political infighting that scares away potential newcomers to the city — should be a top priority.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/20/o...-new-york.html

I think that New York will be fine in regards to its tech future, and this message is more relevant to cities that are trying to figure out how to get a foothold in tech [[perhaps Detroit?).

[Richard]

I do not know though,how much tech can we cram into a country and at the end of the day the techie still needs to be able to flush the toilet.

Speculation wise and looking at what is going to be the biggest next swing in tech is the driverless vehicle thing and Detroit seems to be center stage in that,the southern manufactures will be doing that in their prospective countries for security reasons.

It would be conceivable that VC will increase there for smaller start ups designing the components that will interact.

What is actually left in tech? Social media is covered,cell phones are covered,18 million apps already exist in a sea of apps,gaming development is controlled,Chinese has the solar cornered.

The majior things left that the smaller person can get into are smart and safety for rail and automotive technologies.Bascialy anything transit related.

If the corporations could quit tripping over themselves and actually let Detroit do what it knows best and allow it to find itself again.

There are actually some smaller companies in Michigan that are outperforming other states by a wide margin when it comes to providing tech based vehicles to the military,and the state and city is already geared up for the design to implement to actually manufacturing the products.

Not just think tanks spattered about the country.

Everything is already there in place,the question is what is holding it back?

Personally I think Amazon in Detroit was a mistake to even think about and was setting the bar way to low.

[Wesley Mouch]

...What is actually left in tech?...

There are more things in Berkley and Earth, Horatio, than a dreamt of in your commenting.

I did not realize that we are at Rapture.

What is actually left? Nothing. We are complete. We are one with Silicon Valley.

[Richard]

Being at rapture is a little bit of a stretch,but when you have hundreds of city’s putting billions on the table in order to draw it in it is conceivable that as we know it today,it is becoming limited.

Everything has always been cyclical and with tech it is worse with a short shelf life,so how exactly does a city prepare itself with a workforce in order to draw tech jobs that will be obsolete by the time they train them.

Tech is based on innovation so trying to do something today becomes null 2 years down the road.

Look at the past,train everybody to fix computers,train everybody in healthcare,train everybody in web design,train everybody in the internet,train everybody in solar on and on.

They have all come and gone.

I used to do web pages by spending hours writing code,now a 6 year old with an IPad can do it in minutes.

All I am saying is it seems like that transportation based tech is the next thing on a large scale outside of space travel and weapons.

So why put billions on the table to lure Amazon but not spend the same locally to create your own innovation and technology for the future.

[archfan]

I posted the link and there is tons of research out there where the majority of people living in Scandinavia are not satisfied and it is easy to look at established healthcare systems and see that they may be the answer for a majority but short of the target goal of helping all.
...
Taxes are a real killer if you're upper middle class and whether you're a younger person trying to buy a house or you just want to be able to spend what you make," said Kotkin. "There's also concern among people looking to retire and having their income taxed into oblivion."
At 12.3 percent, California led the 50 states in 2018 with the highest top marginal tax rate, according to the Federation of Tax Administrators. And that doesn't include an additional 1-percent surcharge for those Californians with incomes of $1 million or more.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/12/grow...aboolainternal

If you have a link to research showing the majority of people in Scandinavian countries are unhappy, I'd like to see it. That would be surprising, since they regularly rank in the top 10 happiest places to live. If the majority are unhappy, the rest must just be deliriously, batpoo happy to make up for it.

As for the upper middle class getting killed, the guy may want to choose another metaphor. I think he means "forgoing a trip to Cannes this year".

[Richard]

If you have a link to research showing the majority of people in Scandinavian countries are unhappy, I'd like to see it. That would be surprising, since they regularly rank in the top 10 happiest places to live. If the majority are unhappy, the rest must just be deliriously, batpoo happy to make up for it.

As for the upper middle class getting killed, the guy may want to choose another metaphor. I think he means "forgoing a trip to Cannes this year".

Sweden on moving away from that model

https://www.investors.com/swedish-mo...en%20socialist

Denmark

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/21/w...ault.html?_r=0

Denmark to Bernie

https://www.investors.com/politics/c...-it-socialist/

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/...oIN/story.html

Pretty much all across Europe and Scandinavia the shift in elected officials is the voice that shows people are leaning away from that form of governorship.

We are changing from a manufacturing industrial age economy to a service economy,it is easy to see across the country how that has effected cities and states and individual purchasing power.

It ranges from 53% to 69% of Americans have less then $1000 in savings

https://www.gobankingrates.com/banki...-survey-finds/

But middle class is subjective to location and carries a wide range of definitions,somebody living on a middle class salary in Detroit may be considered not even close to it in some cities in California or New York City.

[O3H]

Which topic hasn't been covered.......hmmmmmmmm ?
Is Jeff Bezos a NeoNazi sympathizer - maybe

https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/17/1...on-hate-groups

Neo-Nazi merchandise available on Amazon,
from a burning cross baby onesie to a
neo-Nazi Pepe the Frog fidget spinner.
Several white supremacist writers’ works were available on Kindle.

https://www.thisisinsider.com/amazon...apparel-2018-7

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.07198c29da72

I think anything goes if it can make a profit..........