So, is anyone ever going to do anything about Hart Plaza?

**Hypestyles** · January-20-21, 03:06 PM

hopefully something can be done by next year when the virus is [[hopefully?) marginalized.

**GPCharles** · January-20-21, 04:11 PM

People forget there was a very popular skating rink on the lower lever, where they put the main concert stage.

**401don** · January-20-21, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by GPCharles

People forget there was a very popular skating rink on the lower lever, where they put the main concert stage.

Was it really popular? I never saw more than 1 or 2 people on it. It was really small.

**royce** · January-22-21, 05:22 PM

The problem with Hart Plaza is Campus Martius Park and the repurposing of Cadillac Square to a park. Once CMP/CSP was created, you then eliminated the reason to go to Hart Plaza. Further insult to injury was adding Spirit Plaza to the mix. Now, no one has a reason to cross Woodward [[which was deemed to dangerous to cross and that's why Spirit Plaza was created, right?).

One viable solution might be to build a hotel on the Ford Auditorium site. Guests from the hotel might be the folks you need to give Hart Plaza some life, especially if, as someone suggested earlier, you add some picnic tables and some programming. Add more grassy lawn areas too and you might create more traffic. Other than that or a total redo, I don't see a whole lot of other options. Now, if they do a total redo, then I would definitely want the fountain and monuments to remain.

BTW, I had heard that where the police station is located at Hart Plaza, that it was set up to be a restaurant there too. I definitely remember the other restaurant that was underground and next to the amphitheater.

**bust** · January-22-21, 05:51 PM

I agree it's a big opportunity where Ford Auditorium was located to bring vitality, without damage.
Alone not be a solution-- but much better than a hotel and especially parking and more offices.

Residences and locals >> white collar transients, commuters, and "amenities" that cater to them.

Campus Martius gets crowded during good weather esp/and good programming.
Hart Plaza [[really a park) has way better natural amenities.
Cadillac Square is the most expendable.

They can coexist;
A short walk to each other and everything else.

If we remove the pedestrian barriers.

**401don** · January-22-21, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by bust

I agree they can help bring much needed vitality where Ford Auditorium was located, and without damage to the park. But that alone would not be a solution, and I'd much rather residences and locals than transients from a hotel and the kinds of services that appeal to them.

I'm sure things will pick up once all those cruise ships start docking at the Port Authority terminal. That was some damn fine pork.

**bust** · January-22-21, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

I'm sure things will pick up once all those cruise ships start docking at the Port Authority terminal. That was some damn fine pork.

uk-fay cruise ips-shay.

Example:
Except for double-entendres on contractor trucks and folks who live there year round, Nassau has become the worst of the Bahamas to visit-- I can think of only one exception. Because of cruise ships.
If Nassau gets it bad imagine the dregs who'll disembark from the Princess Cadillac [[lawsuit pending) for a few hours smoking up playing penny slots in a Detroit casino.

BTW, How is the water even deep enough?
Whatever boat could navigate those waters I'd never step on during high winds, as if I would anyway.

**Gistok** · January-22-21, 07:51 PM

^^ Just an FYI... ocean going cruise ships could never course the Great Lakes... The Welland Canal in Canada cannot hold ships more than 740 ft. long [[yes 1000 footer ore carriers are locked into the 4 upper Great Lakes). So the only cruise ships on the Great Lakes are smaller ones.

**Satiricalivory** · January-22-21, 08:28 PM

But there is a great lakes cruise ship planned that will sail the arctic oceans as well. And it will dock in Detroit.

**bust** · January-22-21, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

But there is a great lakes cruise ship planned that will sail the arctic oceans as well. And it will dock in Detroit.

For schmucks.
Hurrah souvenir shops
Titty bars [[family friendly)
And penny slots.

**bust** · January-22-21, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

^^ Just an FYI... ocean going cruise ships could never course the Great Lakes... The Welland Canal in Canada cannot hold ships more than 740 ft. long [[yes 1000 footer ore carriers are locked into the 4 upper Great Lakes). So the only cruise ships on the Great Lakes are smaller ones.

Yeah Lake St. Clair is even shallower than Lake Erie.
How often would they have to dredge, at what [[not just financial) costs?

**Satiricalivory** · January-26-21, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by bust

Yeah Lake St. Clair is even shallower than Lake Erie.
How often would they have to dredge, at what [[not just financial) costs?

What are you talking about? Massive freighter ships already cross lake Saint Clair so I'm pretty sure it's already dredged enough for a small cruise ships. Which again is already planned to happen in 2022.

**bust** · January-26-21, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

What are you talking about? Massive freighter ships already cross lake Saint Clair so I'm pretty sure it's already dredged enough for a small cruise ships. Which again is already planned to happen in 2022.

You're right. But they follow a dredged shipping channel and pass Belle Isle on the other side. So probably not that middle part. Freighters don't dock at Hart Plaza so the river isn't dredged there.

I wonder how deep the river is off Hart Plaza. And how much harder it would be and what complications it would present to dredge a relatively swift river so close to shore.

Besides, my concern was for the boat's safety during high winds: "Whatever boat could navigate those waters I'd never step on during high winds".

I don't know the design of the cruise ships they're planning, but if their draft is shallow enough to dock at Hart Plaza it would seem they couldn't be very tall. They won't be carrying ore, or ballast. Tall would be susceptible to high winds. Short would be susceptible to high waves. It happens. Already in the Great Lakes it does. They'll go up the North Atlantic to the Arctic Ocean too??

In any case I'm glad the cruise ships will be small. I hope also infrequent. Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure they will.

**ndavies** · January-26-21, 06:10 PM

The river is 20 foot deep at shore in front of the marine terminal. It's 36 feet in the center of the river. There is a sandbar in front of TCF center wit h a depth of 14 feet.

14848_BookletChart.pdf [[noaa.gov)

**jcole** · January-27-21, 09:53 AM

Lake St Clair shipping channel is the whitish line; it's dredged to over 50' deep. The channel starts on the Canadian side of Belle Isle
http://fishing-app.gpsnauticalcharts....4900/-82.6550

**EGrant** · January-27-21, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by ndavies

The river is 20 foot deep at shore in front of the marine terminal. It's 36 feet in the center of the river. There is a sandbar in front of TCF center wit h a depth of 14 feet.

14848_BookletChart.pdf [[noaa.gov)

Ah, the infamous Chicken Bone Reef!

**ndavies** · January-27-21, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by jcole

Lake St Clair shipping channel is the whitish line; it's dredged to over 50' deep. The channel starts on the Canadian side of Belle Isle
http://fishing-app.gpsnauticalcharts....4900/-82.6550

The St. Clair channel is only dredged to a depth of 27.5 feet, not 50.