So, is anyone ever going to do anything about Hart Plaza?

[Shai_Hulud]

Yes, Hart Plaza has been decrepit for a while and the increased traffic makes it look that much worse and hastens it's demise.

Admittedly, it needs immediate attention but, to me, it seems like a waste to patch it when it needs an overhaul and there is going both new development and new public space coming soon.

[Atticus]

Yes, Hart Plaza has been decrepit for a while and the increased traffic makes it look that much worse and hastens it's demise.

Admittedly, it needs immediate attention but, to me, it seems like a waste to patch it when it needs an overhaul and there is going both new development and new public space coming soon.

I have always believed the best use of Hart Plaza is as a festival site.

It doesn't work as a park, because the location south of downtown prevents much [[if any) pass-through pedestrian traffic. Thus it gets the stadium-on-non-event-days feel.

Not a popular opinion on here [[as most posters don't need to consider the financial bottom line in their posts), but they should put up an aesthetically pleasing barrier around the plaza, and charge admission to those who enter for festivals. The revenue collected could help pay the neglected maintenance costs, and that way it would not be a financial drag on the city.

[Shai_Hulud]

I have always believed the best use of Hart Plaza is as a festival site.

It doesn't work as a park, because the location south of downtown prevents much [[if any) pass-through pedestrian traffic. Thus it gets the stadium-on-non-event-days feel.

It is certainly that way now, however that's at least partially due to design. First, there are the 8 lanes of Jefferson to deal with, then you have a park that is mostly concrete baking in the sun, and little worth walking to on either side.

Development of the West Riverfront and redevelopment of the Joe will help with pass through and destinations. If anything ever comes to fruition east of the Rencen or on the Ford Auditorium site, so much the better.

The festivals are important, and better in Hart Plaza than pushed further out, so they need to be a major consideration in a redesign. But if the city, or at least downtown, continues to re-densify, some green decompression space will be increasingly appreciated.

[Atticus]

It is certainly that way now, however that's at least partially due to design. First, there are the 8 lanes of Jefferson to deal with, then you have a park that is mostly concrete baking in the sun, and little worth walking to on either side.

Development of the West Riverfront and redevelopment of the Joe will help with pass through and destinations. If anything ever comes to fruition east of the Rencen or on the Ford Auditorium site, so much the better.

The festivals are important, and better in Hart Plaza than pushed further out, so they need to be a major consideration in a redesign. But if the city, or at least downtown, continues to re-densify, some green decompression space will be increasingly appreciated.

The thing is though, even if Jefferson wasn't a pain to get across for pedestrians, why would people do it? Where are they going to, and where are they coming from?

Jane Jacobs does a much better job than I ever could describing why some parks work, and others don't. But the point is, even if money was no object and Hart Plaza was converted into a perfectly manicured oasis of green space, about the only people who would use it [[at first) are the few who want to get away from everyone else in isolation. The problem with that, as Jacobs describes, is that sets up a situation ripe for crime, and the lack of passer-throughs makes people feel unsafe.

As far as the potential developments on the East Riverfront and the Joe Louis arena site, that would be great, but all those pedestrian trips would be along the river walk, and not up into the plaza.

It is important to note there is no residential surrounding Hart Plaza today, which makes it worse as a public park... but great as a festival site because there are no residents to disturb. Just make the area above the stairs the festival site, keep the river walk path open and free, and call it a day. We can dream of a green space park, but functionally and financially, the festival site is the best use of the site.