Use of Taser by MSP trooper questioned

**O3H** · December-21-17, 11:56 AM

ATV and Dirt Bikes should not be used in concrete environments.
Any rider should know there are consequences to the action.

This issue has been brewing for a LONG time- unfortunately
https://www.fieldandstream.com/artic...ivers-bad-name

**Meddle** · December-21-17, 12:07 PM

I just caught then headline on this, but I'm not optimistic of a conviction. There has been a very poor record of convictions in these cases. There was a headline yesterday about another Trooper being acquitted, but I didn't catch where.

**Meddle** · December-21-17, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by O3H

ATV and Dirt Bikes should not be used in concrete environments.

Knock it off O. This isn't about that. Or water lines.

**ABetterDetroit** · December-21-17, 01:02 PM

I for one am happy that justice is being pursued in this case.

Using deadly force on juveniles for making a bad decision is completely unacceptable and a felony of the highest order.

We can support our Police departments fully AND expect professional conduct following the rules of law. Those two things are not mutually exclusive as some seem to think.

**aj3647** · December-21-17, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by O3H

ATV and Dirt Bikes should not be used in concrete environments.
Any rider should know there are consequences to the action.

This issue has been brewing for a LONG time- unfortunately
https://www.fieldandstream.com/artic...ivers-bad-name

Yes, clearly the consequences should be instant death.

**clubboss** · December-21-17, 04:16 PM

$1,ooo,ooo bond for the former trooper

**archfan** · December-22-17, 03:27 AM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

We can support our Police departments fully AND expect professional conduct following the rules of law. Those two things are not mutually exclusive as some seem to think.

Thank you, that succinctly says what I've been thinking for some time.

**O3H** · December-22-17, 11:13 AM

Until the public actually stops glorifying ATV use in a concrete environment, it will happen again, somewhere in the USA. It's a crime, pure and simple.

**aj3647** · December-22-17, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by O3H

Until the public actually stops glorifying ATV use in a concrete environment, it will happen again, somewhere in the USA. It's a crime, pure and simple.

What does the fact that it is a crime have to do with the Trooper's reckless and irresponsible use of lethal force in violation of his own department's policies? Ah yes, the old "two wrongs make a right" argument.

You know what else is a crime? Second degree murder.

**Meddle** · December-22-17, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by O3H

It's a crime, pure and simple.

It's a traffic offense, not a capital offense.

**O3H** · December-22-17, 11:02 PM

Why glorify it on YouTube ? ATV and Dirt Bike riding like its a ""thing"
It's only a thing because the cops don't NOT squash it, kill it, end it.

Almost like they waving a middle finger at the cops,
- see me - I can ride this here vehicle - any time - any where - any how

From 2002 - https://youtu.be/MH5tvSwgaX4

oh it's 2017 - and idiots still fly around on ORVs, upon city streets .....

**Meddle** · December-23-17, 10:27 AM

^^^ So how does any of that justify execution?

**Zacha341** · December-23-17, 10:39 AM

^^^ Right. It does not justify execution. Plus, if execution was the idea, shooting a tazer from a moving squad car would not be the best option of accuracy [[except in the movies).

As I've mentioned before, what outcome was he [[the officer) expecting, shooting out the window -- both vehicles moving?

**Zacha341** · December-23-17, 10:47 AM

I hear you loud and clear on the insanity of what's glorified on youtube. It's also a grand site for adding ram to your computer and installing headlights, general information, etc [[used it for both of those activities). I mean there's the grim, base and informative and inspiring found on youtube, and those who mocking the law do their thing there too.

I find much of it offensive. Some dolts have been caught from their youtube and face book bragging! I saw a big group of ATV riders in August. I took another street to avoid any drama coming my way. Still, nothing in this case justifies the officers poor judgement.

Originally Posted by O3H

Why glorify it on YouTube ? ATV and Dirt Bike riding like its a ""thing"

It's only a thing because the cops don't NOT squash it, kill it, end it

**Meddle** · December-23-17, 01:40 PM

I stay clear of YT and the 'Hey lookit this!!! And hold m' beer' crowd.

**O3H** · December-23-17, 10:28 PM

We have way too much judicial BULLSHIT associated with criminals.
I don't feel very sorry for those that flagrantly break the law.
Perhaps putting the parents of that idiot kid in jail for 3 months
would send a message loud and clear to the neighborhood
to knock off that shit.

When did being a PARENT loose all the connotation of responsibility ??

http://wtnh.com/2017/07/28/milford-p...-public-roads/

**Meddle** · December-24-17, 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by O3H

We have way too ...

... many leaky water pipes, so go stick your finger in one. Or maybe all your fingers so you can't type silly stuff.

**O3H** · December-24-17, 01:44 AM

So the parents gets off - with nothing at all -
allowing mayhem in the streets from their kids ???????????????

I have a finger fo' ya' MEDDLE

**Wesley Mouch** · December-24-17, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

^^^ Right. It does not justify execution. Plus, if execution was the idea, shooting a tazer from a moving squad car would not be the best option of accuracy [[except in the movies).

As I've mentioned before, what outcome was he [[the officer) expecting, shooting out the window -- both vehicles moving?

You train. You demand excellence. You test. You supervise. You train the trainers. You create oversight. You use body cameras. You pair up officers. You write millions of rules that contradict each other. You go into the real world. And things happen that nobody wants.

The question is whether the officer just used bad judgement, or it was an 'execution' as some here say. I think the 'execution' kind of talk is irresponsible. There certainly is a line that crosses from a serious mistake to criminal actions. As a society, we have to be very careful to not draw that line so close that officers second-guess every situation -- and criminals are emboldened and cause even more harm than an officer who makes a really big mistake.

Its a judgement call. Should the mob here decide? Police tribunals? Black Lives Matters sub-committee? Regular courts? That's the question. There's tragedy from action, and tragedy from inaction. How do we best judge?

**softailrider** · December-24-17, 09:34 PM

Impound the ATV’s then. Call for a tow truck and take them away. They do it for motorcyclists who get stopped, who have a license, have plates but lack a cycle endorsement. But don’t execute a kid via taser, whether you meant to or not.

**Meddle** · December-25-17, 06:00 AM

One and you're out. Permanently.

If an officer causes the death of a citizen under less than clear conditions, they lose their badge and certification and may never work in police services again, any where in the US.

That allows for those cases where there is no alternative and the use of deadly force is required.

It also makes sure that those who use bad judgement or make mistakes may never be allowed the same choice again.

In cases were misconduct is determined and departmental discipline is decided to terminate employment [[whether or not there is a criminal conviction), they're barred from employment on any other agency and they lose their pension also.

**aj3647** · December-26-17, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by O3H

So the parents gets off - with nothing at all -
allowing mayhem in the streets from their kids ???????????????

I have a finger fo' ya' MEDDLE

What law would you like them charged under? Specific statute number in the Michigan Compiled Laws [[MCL) please.

"Mayhem in the streets?" Calm down, snowflake. Maybe you're just too sensitive for this world if the sight of an ATV in Detroit gets you this riled up. Crime of the century, for sure.

**O3H** · December-26-17, 10:42 AM

We sure as hell don't expect much of a "parent" in society these days.
It has a definite affect on juvenile criminal activity.

When a KID suddenly appears at a house with an ATV, in a concrete jungle, with no car/trailer combo -- perhaps the parent says F' NO !!!
You are are NOT keeping that thing on my property.

**aj3647** · December-26-17, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by O3H

We sure as hell don't expect much of a "parent" in society these days.
It has a definite affect on juvenile criminal activity.

When a KID suddenly appears at a house with an ATV, in a concrete jungle, with no car/trailer combo -- perhaps the parent says F' NO !!!
You are are NOT keeping that thing on my property.

And what of the parents of the former disgraced Michigan State Police trooper facing murder charges? How many months should they be put in prison for having raised such a sub-human violent savage thug?

**O3H** · December-26-17, 04:54 PM

To someone "attempting" to protect the rest of society
- a tip of the hat and a Thank You. Life is not always fair or just.

Hey, its my opinion, get used to the fact different folks see the world
in a manner that "might" not be similar to yours. Deal with it .

The sad thing is 10 more "kids" could be killed in the exact same manner, and IDIOTS would still ride ATV/Bikes in the concrete cities due to the fact society condones it on YouTube. Have a great New Year !