Use of Taser by MSP trooper questioned

[cla1945]

Why are you referring to this kid as a thug? Because he wasn't wearing a helmet? Did he have some sort of nefarious backround that no one else knows about?

If you call him that simply because he was riding an ATV in the street, well, I guess a lot of us are thugs then. Do any of you realize how common it is to ride recreational vehicles in the neighborhoods during the summer months? You see mini-rockets, dirt bikes, 3 wheelers, scooters, motorized mini-scooters... whole clubs dedicated to riding small stuff that makes noise. I've ridden in Detroit and exurban neighborhoods. Police were never called, no one cares. Of course, I'm not 15 either so that angle hasn't escaped me. As long as I'm not being a total asshole the only thing DPD will do is either warn me to stay under the speed limit and wear a helmet, or ignore me all together.

On my way to work this week I saw a guy in a suit with a backpack on riding one of those motorized foot scooters on Griswold in traffic. Stopped at the red light and everything. A dozen cops in sight, no one batted an eye.

Obviously you are not paying any attention to the laws either. Riding recreational vehicles in "neighborhoods" is illegal, pure and simple. If you're doing that, whether you have a helmet on or not, is breaking the law. If there are Clubs dedicated to riding small stuff that makes noise or speeds up and down the street, or races each other, that's illegal. What is it that you and others don't seem to understand when it comes to breaking the law? Do you feel you're exempt from the laws? "No one cares"; or is it that none of the neighbors will "snitch"? No one wants to have their windows broken out or their homes firebombed, maybe that's the answer. DPD has their hands tied, as I've said before. Police are being handcuffed instead of the "thugs" and lawbreakers. It's a losing battle with DPD...damned if they do, damned if they don't.
The little motorized foot scooter on Griswold more than likely had a license plate on it and the guy was obeying the law. If he was sitting there, on a 4 wheel ATV, reeving the engine, with no license plate, more than likely he would have been stopped, ticketed and his vehicle towed.

[detroitsgwenivere]

^^You're being overdramatic. "No Snitch"? Firebombed? We're talking about riding rec vehicles, not housing the local trap spot. And how would someone find out who "snitched" on them unless the police themselves did the talking? People way underestimate just how involved some police are with the local riff raff.

That guy with the little scooter had no license plate, there's no place to hang one: [[sorry, wont let me minimize)

I realize that ATVs are of a larger caliber regarding power compared to this.

Yeah, I know it's illegal, I don't give a shit. I'm not harming anyone, the police aren't harming me. If I get hurt or get a ticket, that's my problem. Should the 15 year old be riding around without a plate and helmet, making the cops chase him around, no. It's this whole "breaking any law equates with justifiable homicide" ideology with you law and order types I have a problem with.

[Meddle]

The more people that are killed by police without prosecution of the officers, the more people will run simply out of fear of being killed.

[aj3647]

Why are you referring to this kid as a thug?

It's a code word, I'll let you figure out what it's code for. Rhymes with "trigger."

[cla1945]

It's a code word, I'll let you figure out what it's code for. Rhymes with "trigger."

a brutal ruffian or assassin :gangster, tough

No mention of ethnicity, religion, beliefs, skin color, clothes worn, neighborhoods, family. That's YOUR code word.

[aj3647]

a brutal ruffian or assassin :gangster, tough

It was a 15 year old kid riding an ATV on a street. But yeah, he's a regular Pablo fucking Escobar.

What part of this kid's misdemeanor traffic violation qualifies him as a "thug" in your mind?

No need to answer, I already know.

[Wheels]

An ATV in the wrong hands can be as dangerous as a gun. When you flee from the police you become that wrong person. That equals THUG!
And bye the way THUGS come in black or white or brown and red, color has no issue here!

[aj3647]

An ATV in the wrong hands can be as dangerous as a gun.

I think actual death statistics might prove otherwise. In fact I'd bet willing to be that just about every death associated with an ATV has been the person riding it, not a pedestrian.

I did a google search for "pedestrian killed ATV" and I was only able to find two news articles about a pedestrian being killed by an ATV. Two. Meanwhile, 13,000 people a year die in firearm homicides. But just as deadly as guns, right?

More people drown in backyard pools than are run over and killed by ATVs. More Americans die from lightning strikes every year than are run over and killed by ATVs.

So yes, while theoretically an ATV can kill someone [[as can just about anything really), maybe the threat posed by them isn't so great as necessitating that the police must kill the drivers?

[clubboss]

An ATV in the wrong hands can be as dangerous as a gun. When you flee from the police you become that wrong person. That equals THUG!

Let me guess, DPS graduate?

[cla1945]

It was a 15 year old kid riding an ATV on a street. But yeah, he's a regular Pablo fucking Escobar.

What part of this kid's misdemeanor traffic violation qualifies him as a "thug" in your mind?

No need to answer, I already know.

You make it sound so very innocent and non-important. Just a 15 year old kid riding an ATV on a street isn't exactly what it was, right? This 15 year old "kid"was riding recklessly; this 15 year old "kid" failed to comply with MSP troopers when they told him to stop, more than once; this 15 year old "kid" ran from the troopers; this 15 year old "kid" drove up on a public sidewalk and continued to run. That's not quite the picture you want to portray is it? He wasn't on a big wheel pedaling his way down the street. He was on an ATV going full speed, and he could have easily killed others. But you want everyone to think that it was just an innocent slow ride down the street, right?
Anyone, and I mean anyone, who breaks the law, thumbs their noses at the law, hurts, maims, steals or murders others is a thug.
If the trooper was wrong in what he did then he needs to face the consequences, but I'm sure when he tased the boy, he never thought the boy would seize up and crash and kill himself. I'm sure death of this boy was not the objective of the trooper as people are saying. The parents of this "kid" spend a lot of money to let this boy ride all over the neighborhood and probably never licensed the vehicle, never sent the kid for training, and never taught his the rules of the road. The parents share lots of responsibility in his death.

[cla1945]

Let me guess, DPS graduate?

If Wheels is a DPD graduate, kudos to him...it's the best Training Academy in the USA.

[Honky Tonk]

If Wheels is a DPD graduate, kudos to him...it's the best Training Academy in the USA.

Better than White Pigeon?

[Meddle]

When you flee from the police ...

... maybe you're just trying not to be killed like so many others have been.

[Honky Tonk]

... maybe you're just trying not to be killed like so many others have been.

Well that certainly is a good way to go about that, isn't it?

[aj3647]

You make it sound so very innocent and non-important. Just a 15 year old kid riding an ATV on a street isn't exactly what it was, right? This 15 year old "kid"was riding recklessly; this 15 year old "kid" failed to comply with MSP troopers when they told him to stop, more than once; this 15 year old "kid" ran from the troopers; this 15 year old "kid" drove up on a public sidewalk and continued to run. That's not quite the picture you want to portray is it? He wasn't on a big wheel pedaling his way down the street. He was on an ATV going full speed, and he could have easily killed others. But you want everyone to think that it was just an innocent slow ride down the street, right?
Anyone, and I mean anyone, who breaks the law, thumbs their noses at the law, hurts, maims, steals or murders others is a thug.
If the trooper was wrong in what he did then he needs to face the consequences, but I'm sure when he tased the boy, he never thought the boy would seize up and crash and kill himself. I'm sure death of this boy was not the objective of the trooper as people are saying. The parents of this "kid" spend a lot of money to let this boy ride all over the neighborhood and probably never licensed the vehicle, never sent the kid for training, and never taught his the rules of the road. The parents share lots of responsibility in his death.

And what of the trooper who violated his department's policy regarding taser use, recklessly disregarded his training regarding taser use, and irresponsibly fired a taser out of the window of a moving vehicle, resulting in his own suspension from the Michigan State Police? A trooper who had two previous complaints of excessive force. Who is now under investigation for his actions and subjected the state to a civil suit in which we the taxpayers are almost certainly going to have to pay out millions of dollars to this kid's family.

Any comment on that? No? He gets a pass, right? He can't be a thug, because he wears a badge.

A 15 year old kid who made a split second bad decision deserves to die for it [[in your opinion) but a cop who made a split second bad decision deserves a medal and a pat on the back.

THUG with a badge and a gun. And I would go further to lay some of the blame at the feet of the trooper's parents, who raised such a violent thug.

[Zacha341]

As I've said before the teen didn't deserve to die for his misuse of the ATV. The State Police have already weighed in on the obvious misconduct of the officer who has a history of problems. Does the fact that Grime's wore a hoodie somehow mitigate that?

I still can't figure out what outcome the officer expecting? Even in split moment thinking, he had to know this was going to bow badly.

Did he think that the boy would come to an 'un-eventful' stop [[there's very little un-eventful about the response to tazering).

Did he expect that in turn his parents would keep it quiet that illegal use of a tazer was applied?

[detroitsgwenivere]

I did a google search for "pedestrian killed ATV" and I was only able to find two news articles about a pedestrian being killed by an ATV.

You know what's weird? I knew one of those people who died riding an ATV. A father of two from Royal Oak who died upnorth. Very sudden and sad, I loved his family, they were really good to me when I was growing up.

[cla1945]

... maybe you're just trying not to be killed like so many others have been.

Give me a break please! Comply is the key word here.

[cla1945]

And what of the trooper who violated his department's policy regarding taser use, recklessly disregarded his training regarding taser use, and irresponsibly fired a taser out of the window of a moving vehicle, resulting in his own suspension from the Michigan State Police? A trooper who had two previous complaints of excessive force. Who is now under investigation for his actions and subjected the state to a civil suit in which we the taxpayers are almost certainly going to have to pay out millions of dollars to this kid's family.

Any comment on that? No? He gets a pass, right? He can't be a thug, because he wears a badge.

A 15 year old kid who made a split second bad decision deserves to die for it [[in your opinion) but a cop who made a split second bad decision deserves a medal and a pat on the back.

THUG with a badge and a gun. And I would go further to lay some of the blame at the feet of the trooper's parents, who raised such a violent thug.

No one said the cop deserves a pat on the back. He needs to face the consequences of his actions if he went against department policy. Two previous complaints of excessive force is not unusual, especially when people like so many on this forum file nonsense complaints about cuffs being too tight, or some cop put his knee in my back when I failed to listen to his instructions and fought him.
Too many of you are so damn willing to crucify LEO's for everything, when in fact, too many of you fail to understand the word "COMPLY"!

[Meddle]

Give me a break please! Comply is the key word here.

Or Die, right?

Do as I say ... or else?

[Meddle]

No one said the cop deserves a pat on the back. He needs to face the consequences of his actions if he went against department policy. Two previous complaints of excessive force is not unusual,

too many of you fail to understand the word "COMPLY"!

Two is too many. That should be a signal to pull the officer off the street and either return to training or go to a desk job. Comply goes for the officer too. Comply with policy. Comply with the law. Comply with common sense.

[Detroit Stylin]

Give me a break please! Comply is the key word here.

Oh like Philando Castile right?

[aj3647]

Take a look at these THUGS riding their non-street legal vehicles in the street. Products of a dysfunctional family upbringing and culture that did not instill in them a respect for the rule of law. Taser each and every one of them, I say. If they die, so be it, that's on them.

[Honky Tonk]

Take a look at these THUGS riding their non-street legal vehicles in the street. Products of a dysfunctional family upbringing and culture that did not instill in them a respect for the rule of law. Taser each and every one of them, I say. If they die, so be it, that's on them.

LOL! My hero! Do you even know the difference between an ATV and a pedal car? Do you know the difference between a closed off street for a block party and ATVs out on a public thoroughfare, weaving in and out of traffic, or running over public "walkable" areas? Do you know the difference between a block party kids race and resisting arrest? Of course you don't, look who I'm asking.

[aj3647]

LOL! My hero! Do you even know the difference between an ATV and a pedal car? Do you know the difference between a closed off street for a block party and ATVs out on a public thoroughfare, weaving in and out of traffic, or running over public "walkable" areas? Do you know the difference between a block party kids race and resisting arrest? Of course you don't, look who I'm asking.

The second and fourth vehicles are definitely NOT "pedal cars", in fact they look an awful lot like battery-powered mini-ATVs, wouldn't you say?

Who says the street is closed off for a block party? Where'd you see that in the photo? Because I certainly don't see a block party there. You certainly are making a lot of baseless and incorrect assumptions about that photo.

Now let's go through the baseless assumptions [[and outright lies) you are making about Damon Grimes:

-Where'd you get the notion that Damon Grimes was "weaving in and out of traffic" when he was shot? Please provide a link to a news source that says he was moving around or through other vehicles on the road. For all you know, Grimes was on a desolate, empty street.
-Where'd you get the notion that Damon Grimes was actively running over the sidewalk? Again, I'm going to have to ask for proof of this claim. I believe he was still in the street when he crashed into the back of the pickup truck.
-What is your basis for falsely claiming that Damon Grimes "resisted arrest?" Fleeing is not the same thing as "resisting arrest" and in no article I read did it state that the MSP trooper at any time attempted to place Grimes under arrest, merely that he was trying to stop him.