State of Emergency/White Nationalist Protest in Virginia

[Honky Tonk]

And THAT is not news to anyone who has been breathing for more than twenty years. The News in general has been all about money and ratings since before the 1990s rolled around.

Apparently it is to aj3647.

[aj3647]

Apparently our president doesn't need experience, education knowledge or expertise or even background in anything remotely related to government, so, what the hell, lets all just do whatever job we want. I think I want to be a brain surgeon this week; I've been a cook and I know how to slice lunchmeat...

You're joking, but this is what America has turned into. We've turned into the movie "Idiocracy." Senator Kid Rock, the host of the Apprentice is the President, we shouldn't listen to scientists on matters of science, my uninformed opinion of vaccines trumps the consensus of medical science, and Sandy Hook was a false flag carried out by crisis actors because fat blowhard Alex Jones said so.

Well, It's way more insight than you seem to have.

Like I said, you enjoy your YouTube videos, brother.

[Richard]

You are of course right. I should own up and follow the true leader. Multilol.

Or maybe spend less time discussing a parody,without looking at the message.

The priority is the form of message,but no problem or discussion about a US billionaire and public officials funding an organization who's sole purpose is to disrupt the right to public protest with violence,destruction of private property,and now the loss of life.

It would seem,with some,that type of action is okay and eceptable as long as the direction of action is towards a target that we do not like or agree with.

History has taught us,that line of thinking has a way of turning back around and coming back against the ones that turn the blind eye.

[Honky Tonk]

Like I said, you enjoy your YouTube videos, brother.

U2, Bro', I hear this weeks latest news hottie has a new $400 blouse with a low-cut neckline, groooowwwwllllll..... [[film at 11)

[Canadian Visitor]

Or maybe spend less time discussing a parody,without looking at the message.

The priority is the form of message,but no problem or discussion about a US billionaire and public officials funding an organization who's sole purpose is to disrupt the right to public protest with violence,destruction of private property,and now the loss of life.

It would seem,with some,that type of action is okay and eceptable as long as the direction of action is towards a target that we do not like or agree with.

History has taught us,that line of thinking has a way of turning back around and coming back against the ones that turn the blind eye.

As someone with a degree in History, may I suggest it teaches the value of a good education. [[formal or otherwise).

Something many posters clearly lack.

[Richard]

As long as we are looking at conspiracy theories ...

Brennan Gilmore.

He was the first on the scene whose tweet went viral,and was interviewed by both FOX and CNN as an accidental witness.

His career was with the state department under Hillary State department in Africa as special assistant to the Lords resistance army [[LRA) specializing in phy-ops.

He is chief of staff for Tom Parro who is running for governor of Virginia and received $380,000 from George Soros.

Since his appearance in the media the state department has removed all of the references of him.

Jason Kessler,white supremacist and Unite the right leader was actually a supporter of President Obama and a hardline member of the Occupy movement.

Southern poverty law center lists his political transformation around November 2016,the same month President Trump won the election.

I guess all of these guys just happened to be there out of the blue.

[Richard]

As someone with a degree in History, may I suggest it teaches the value of a good education. [[formal or otherwise).

Something many posters clearly lack.

History teaches us fighting fascism with fascism works,in your degreed expirence?

I have a friend that is an African American who is now 78 and a multi millionaire,he never went to school or received a formal education,it could be argued that he grew up in some of the worst times for African Americans in the south and to this day,he still signs his name with an X because he can neither read or write.

God gives us talents,some require a formal education,some do not.

It just goes to show how people judge a person based of their precieved values verses the character of the individual.

Can one really buy superiority with a degree? Some seem to think so.

[Canadian Visitor]

I don't believe that AJ suggested your local late newscast is the epitome of great journalism, though he can speak for himself.

What should be clear is that some sources deserve greater credence than others.

That does not mean they get a free pass either on what they report or how.

It means that some sources, including many on youtube have no track record of being credible or correct, no evidence of expertise or first hand knowledge.

That means the bar for them is very high, you need to double and triple check what you hear/see from those sources.

When you see your local 'news at 11'; of course the content has been chosen; no conspiracy is required to know the roughly 9 minutes available for 'hard news' couldn't possibly cover every story of significance. Investigative journalism also doesn't happen very often in small local markets.

But what IS reported tends to be substantially accurate. Your local news, likely said 'The Mayor says' and correctly quoted or showed what the mayor said. That doesn't mean what the mayor said was the full story. It simply means the reporting was accurate as far as it went.

While this won't always be true, it tends to be the vast majority of the time.

In other words that source of information gets greater credence than a youtube video by random dude from Wisconsin.

***

If you want to assert that there's bias in the both story selection and reporting at many media outlets......you won't find much disagreement.

But that doesn't change that the essential facts in a New York Times article are more than likely right.

That the writer may have given more time to one set of facts than another doesn't change that.

Nor does the fact another story got less column inches or was buried on p.22 change that.

Of course its a concern. Which is why you should seek out multiple perspectives on most important stories.

Read the Freep's view; then the News, then see if the story is in the NYT or on CNN. Have time? Check the sources yourself.

Or....wait for it........phone [[or email) the reporter and ask for the details. [[they usually are happy enough to share).

But don't use sources that largely make stuff up; and have zero proof they don't.

[Canadian Visitor]

As long as we are looking at conspiracy theories ...

Brennan Gilmore.

He was the first on the scene whose tweet went viral,and was interviewed by both FOX and CNN as an accidental witness.

His career was with the state department under Hillary State department in Africa as special assistant to the Lords resistance army [[LRA) specializing in phy-ops.

He is chief of staff for Tom Parro who is running for governor of Virginia and received $380,000 from George Soros.

Since his appearance in the media the state department has removed all of the references of him.

Jason Kessler,white supremacist and Unite the right leader was actually a supporter of President Obama and a hardline member of the Occupy movement.

Southern poverty law center lists his political transformation around November 2016,the same month President Trump won the election.

I guess all of these guys just happened to be there out of the blue.

Perhaps you might do some research.....you know that thing you've heard about where you just don't believe the first coo coo nonsense you hear?

http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...esville-215514

[Richard]

Perhaps you might do some research.....you know that thing you've heard about where you just don't believe the first coo coo nonsense you hear?

http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...esville-215514

What exactly did I post is it that you are concidering nonsense ?

I posted the man and who he was and his past,nothing false there.

He just happened to be there? Why would a person of that stature be hanging out at what was in the past a collection of protesters and counter protesters,or pretty much a common occurrence on a monthly basis that had no history of that level of violence.

How exactly did a major player against the conservatives or alt right decide to all of the sudden become the head of the very thing he despised.

Instead of discussing that you wish to deviate from the discussion by going on about things that have nothing to do with anything realvant.

Lives were lost,one doing something she believed in,and two that were putting their lives on the line to protect those who cannot protect themselves.

We may never know exactly what the circumstances that ended up with that,but we as a country owes that to them so their death is not in vain.

A police officer shoots somebody in the line of duty and it is scruntized under a thousand magnifying glasses,but yet here we are already decided,nazis bad so they are the reason.

Fair enough,it could very well be just that but like I said before there are to many things aligned in that spot to be coincidence.

But we will never know until we find out,will we.

[Canadian Visitor]

What exactly did I post is it that you are concidering nonsense ?

I posted the man and who he was and his past,nothing false there.

He just happened to be there? Why would a person of that stature be hanging out at what was in the past a collection of protesters and counter protesters,or pretty much a common occurrence on a monthly basis that had no history of that level of violence.

1) This is explained in his article.

2) You implied a grand conspiracy where a straight-forward explanation is evidenced.

How exactly did a major player against the conservatives or alt right decide to all of the sudden become the head of the very thing he despised.

Instead of discussing that you wish to deviate from the discussion by going on about things that have nothing to do with anything realvant.

There is no evidence he was a 'major player' at anything in his life, ever, so far as I've seen.

As for his political conversion, he himself says it happened starting in 2012, and related specifically to how the media was covering police shootings, and the then new proposal to remove the Robert E. Lee statue in Charlottesville.

Conspiracy solved! Woot! Research. [[doesn't take that long)

[Meddle]

Some only believe babblers like Jim's buddy ThomThom.

[canuck]

Or maybe spend less time discussing a parody,without looking at the message.

The priority is the form of message,but no problem or discussion about a US billionaire and public officials funding an organization who's sole purpose is to disrupt the right to public protest with violence,destruction of private property,and now the loss of life.

It would seem,with some,that type of action is okay and eceptable as long as the direction of action is towards a target that we do not like or agree with.

History has taught us,that line of thinking has a way of turning back around and coming back against the ones that turn the blind eye.

Blind eye. History. Why do these words feel sarcastic when written by you? Oh well.

It took a whole lot of blind eyes, hypocrites, haters and apologists for the great Adolf to unleash his wisdom upon the world. So much misery.

Honestly, I am totally in accord with those who fought the Nazi/white nutjob bastards in Charlottesville. Heroic.
Same in Boston and Quebec City.

[Canadian Visitor]

Can one really buy superiority with a degree? Some seem to think so.

Perhaps if you actually read my post, you would note that I said, "Education, formal or otherwise"

That means with or without a degree.

***

Second, having an education does not make you a better person, unto itself.

What it makes you, if the education was any good, is more knowledgeable.

In other words, knowing that 2 +2 = 4 [[excepting quantum math where this isn't necessarily true) ..... does not make you a better person. But it does help you make sure you balance your bank account, get the correct amount of change at the store, and leave a fair tip at the restaurant.

Education is a tool. Nothing more, nothing less.

But putting a nail in without a hammer tends to be slower, and less effective.

Its a worthwhile tool, as is an education.

Again, be that formal or not.

You can read books without getting a degree. You can use spell check without getting an English degree. You can listen to other perspectives with an open mind, become more aware of a bigger world around you, without so much as a High School diploma.

Lots of folks have done it.

Educate yourself, and you can take pride in your hard work, what you learned and enjoy how much easier it make life and how it garners you respect from others.

The degree is only 'proof' to an employer that you passed an exam [[or a few) along the way.

Essential for certain jobs, but in no way essential to pride or success.

I judge people for what they say, and the tenor with which they express it.

I don't care how you got smart, or what you don't know about.

I do care that you think you know things you don't; that you don't value learning; that you make decisions about things w/no evidence or bad evidence and don't spend anytime questioning your own ideas or those of others who support your views.

Nor do you seriously entertain ideas from others that contradict what you think you know. You don't read the entire link [[if any of it); you don't think to yourself 'I wonder if I could be wrong'. You just shut down discussion in anger that someone made your idea look bad. Your mistake is that your idea looked bad before anyone else was on scene. You should have caught that.

*******

Finally,

Let me address what you think my bias might be.

Yes, I have a great education......

But you know what............I didn't come from money.

First in my family to graduate HS, let alone UNI.

My parents were great [[no longer w/us); but they were not formally educated.

But there's the rub..........they valued education, and they were both extremely well read. My mother spoke, read and wrote two languages w/eloquence, my father made it management in his early 20s.

These things happened not because they had degrees or diplomas, but because they sought to better themselves.

That I can respect. Feeling smugly sure of one's self when you have lazily skimmed 1/2 baked info from uncorroborated sources, and made no effort to self-question them whatever, I can't.

[Richard]

^ you still have not answered the question.

Do you support fighting fascism by useing fascism?

250,000 have signed the petition to label Antifa a terrorist organization,with in a couple of days.

They did that with no facts also?

You interjected education levels into the discussion when you passed judgment on those who you disagreed with and justified that by saying they were uneducated so thier position or views do not matter,then comes on the whole spelling and sentence structure undercuts ones opinion.

I get it,in your world the only people that should have a opinion needs to be highly educated or step aside.You are a supporter of a 2 class society,but that is okay because in America you can be what you want to be.

Education or not we all die and in the end our lives are judged not by the leval of education we had but how we lived our lives and how we treated others along the way.

Walk up to a nazi or Antifa member and tell them that you are highly educated and see how that goes.

That is kinda what the whole discussion was about,distraction 101 not so much.

You seem to be able to come up with multiple reasons to not read my posts,but yet you still read them.

[Meddle]

250,000 have signed the petition to label Antifa a terrorist organization,with in a couple of days.

They did that with no facts also?

Apparently so since it seems to have already been done.

[Richard]

Apparently so since it seems to have already been done.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...organization-0

[JBMcB]

Former neo-nazis and white supremacists on what changed their mind. Hint: It wasn't violence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhjgKXtEhDo

tl;dr version: The neo-nazis *like* violence, and were encouraged, and felt vindicated, when attacked. When confronted with understanding and reason - they started to *think*

[Meddle]

...

Search the news. DHS made the announcement yesterday.

Didn't make it into the tabloids maybe.

[Richard]

Search the news. DHS made the announcement yesterday.

Didn't make it into the tabloids maybe.

What are you going on about?

A petition was formed Yes or no

The petition received in excess of the required votes to move forward . Yes or no

What does the tabloids have to do with it ?

Others listed the timeline of completed petition to approval or disapproval of thirty to sixty days. So DHS immediately approved it.

[Canadian Visitor]

^ you still have not answered the question.

Do you support fighting fascism by useing fascism?

That is a ridiculous proposition. You don't even know how to define fascism.

Let me help, from Wikipedia.

Some scholars consider fascism to be right-wing because of its social conservatism and its authoritarian means of opposing egalitarianism.^[45][46] Roderick Stackelberg places fascism—including Nazism, which he says is "a radical variant of fascism"—on the political right, explaining that, "The more a person deems absolute equality among all people to be a desirable condition, the further left he or she will be on the ideological spectrum. The more a person considers inequality to be unavoidable or even desirable, the further to the right he or she will be"

Does that sound like Antifa to you? Socially conservative? Pro-inequality?

Right.

Antifa may have some members who are violent; and may employ some confrontational protest tactics. You [[or I) may disagree with these for any number of reasons, that does not make them fascist. Really. Again, Facts please.

***

To get at what you were trying to ask, but mangled so badly; no I don't support confrontational protests in the vast majority of cases. I do think it tends to be counter productive in shaping public opinion.

I think peaceful counter-protests are fine; though largely ineffective at persuading folks to change their minds.

I think efforts are typically better focused on research to identify why people are either misinformed, disaffected or both and to try to reach them through communication channels they would wish to use; and explain a different world view, in respectful terms in a way that's understandable to them.

Though I freely confess, people like you do make it easier to understand why people become exasperated and just give up on persuading people who are being irrational hatemongers and instead resort to counter-threat.

Not legal, not advisable, but too understandable.

I get it,in your world the only people that should have a opinion needs to be highly educated or step aside.You are a supporter of a 2 class society,but that is okay because in America you can be what you want to be.

Not remotely true; I favour an egalitarian model in which everyone is well educated. I simply oppose anyone exercising their right to be stupid.

[Richard]

Former neo-nazis and white supremacists on what changed their mind. Hint: It wasn't violence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhjgKXtEhDo

tl;dr version: The neo-nazis *like* violence, and were encouraged, and felt vindicated, when attacked. When confronted with understanding and reason - they started to *think*

Do you agree with the commentary?

It becomes common sense,if somebody walks up to you aggressively,you are going to take an aggressive stance.

It goes also back to the whole statue thing,a democratic country but nobody set both sides down for a solution,it is one side saying tear them down and the other saying no.

[Richard]

That is a ridiculous proposition. You don't even know how to define fascism.

Let me help, from Wikipedia.

Some scholars consider fascism to be right-wing because of its social conservatism and its authoritarian means of opposing egalitarianism.^[45][46] Roderick Stackelberg places fascism—including Nazism, which he says is "a radical variant of fascism"—on the political right, explaining that, "The more a person deems absolute equality among all people to be a desirable condition, the further left he or she will be on the ideological spectrum. The more a person considers inequality to be unavoidable or even desirable, the further to the right he or she will be"

Does that sound like Antifa to you? Socially conservative? Pro-inequality?

Right.

Antifa may have some members who are violent; and may employ some confrontational protest tactics. You [[or I) may disagree with these for any number of reasons, that does not make them fascist. Really. Again, Facts please.

***

To get at what you were trying to ask, but mangled so badly; no I don't support confrontational protests in the vast majority of cases. I do think it tends to be counter productive in shaping public opinion.

I think peaceful counter-protests are fine; though largely ineffective at persuading folks to change their minds.

I think efforts are typically better focused on research to identify why people are either misinformed, disaffected or both and to try to reach them through communication channels they would wish to use; and explain a different world view, in respectful terms in a way that's understandable to them.

Though I freely confess, people like you do make it easier to understand why people become exasperated and just give up on persuading people who are being irrational hatemongers and instead resort to counter-threat.

Not legal, not advisable, but too understandable.




Not remotely true; I favour an egalitarian model in which everyone is well educated. I simply oppose anyone exercising their right to be stupid.

So your definition of fascism is defined by a Wikipedia article that starts out by saying "Some scholars consider"

Seriously ? That is the result of a high education? Maybe a refund is in order.

You oppose anyone exercising thier right to be stupid.I guess everybody has a right to thier opinion,but you know what they say about that.

Because you determined who is stupid and who is not according to your thoughts.

As an above poster clarified Antifa has been designated a terrorist group and yet here you are trying to justify their existence.

You said you were a history expert or something along those lines,what exactly did hiltler and his supporters do in the first 53 days of him taking power as the chancellor ?

[Canadian Visitor]

So your definition of fascism is defined by a Wikipedia article that starts out by saying "Some scholars consider"

Seriously ? That is the result of a high education? Maybe a refund is in order.

You oppose anyone exercising thier right to be stupid.I guess everybody has a right to thier opinion,but you know what they say about that.

Because you determined who is stupid and who is not according to your thoughts.

I can cite hundreds of sources to back up the notion the essential character of fascism as described in that quote.

That's an easy and accessible source which, does have citations in its own right.

Which I know you didn't look up, nor did you see the context of the full article, or you would have known that wasn't the start of it.

That's what makes you lazy; which defines your choice to be ignorant.

You post without research.

Your questioning of a legitimate source, without so much as bothering to look it up would be laughable if it wasn't so shameful.

[Richard]

^ So why do you punish yourself with the indignity of hob nobing with the uneducated lower class?

Free yourself and maybe do something more useful,like finding the real meaning of life.