In the mean time: North Korea....

[aj3647]

Yep. Both sides weigh in on the war scene.... Recalling Bill Clinton's Kosovo.

How many Americans died in Kosovo? Look it up. Now compare that to the death toll from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, or how many American servicemen we could expect to die from North Korean counterattacks in any war with North Korea. Are the numbers comparable?

It wasn't just Bush who got us into the Iraq War. Hillary, Kerry and other Democrats also gave license for Bush to wage that war.

Congress voted to authorize the use of military force against Iraq because they were presented with cherry-picked and manipulated intelligence by the Bush Administration.

Just like with the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, Congress voted the way that they did because they were LIED to by the Executive Branch. In the case of the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, LBJ and his Administration flat-out fabricated a second attack that never even occurred and grossly misrepresented the first attack so as to manipulate Congress into voting the way they wanted them to.

Bush did the same thing with Iraq. Those Senators who voted "yes" did so in good faith that what they were being told about the threat posed by Iraq was genuine and honest and it was not.

[Richard]

AJ,do you know the ratio of private contractors to military personnel used in Afghanistan,Syria,Irac etc. ?

Good money in private wars,starting pay is $200k a year,it has its risks though as those in Benghazi found out.

There was a reason I asked why there were private contractors in Charlottesville that day.

[aj3647]

AJ,do you know the ratio of private contractors to military personnel used in Afghanistan,Syria,Irac etc. ?

Good money in private wars,starting pay is $200k a year,it has its risks though as those in Benghazi found out.

There was a reason I asked why there were private contractors in Charlottesville that day.

What does that have to do with anything? Yes, the U.S. government uses private military contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yes, I find that to be an incredible waste of money and grossly irresponsible since PMCs are not subject to the UCMJ. Yes, these people are mercenaries.

[Zacha341]

How many Americans died in Kosovo? Look it up. Now compare that to the death toll from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, or how many American servicemen we could expect to die from North Korean counterattacks in any war with North Korea. Are the numbers comparable?

I know how many [numbers], that is not the greater point. Motive is.

My point is the the military industrial complex has leveraged varied global conflicts under both dems and repubs.

[oladub]

How many Americans died in Kosovo? Look it up. Now compare that to the death toll from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, or how many American servicemen we could expect to die from North Korean counterattacks in any war with North Korea. Are the numbers comparable?

Congress voted to authorize the use of military force against Iraq because they were presented with cherry-picked and manipulated intelligence by the Bush Administration.

Just like with the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, Congress voted the way that they did because they were LIED to by the Executive Branch. In the case of the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, LBJ and his Administration flat-out fabricated a second attack that never even occurred and grossly misrepresented the first attack so as to manipulate Congress into voting the way they wanted them to.

Bush did the same thing with Iraq. Those Senators who voted "yes" did so in good faith that what they were being told about the threat posed by Iraq was genuine and honest and it was not.

Bush lied. Future Democratic presidential candidates John Kerry and Mrs. Clinton, among others, bought into Bush's lies. Not all members of Congress bought into Bush's lies. Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul, for instance, saw through Bush's lies, said so, and voted not to unconstitutionally give Bush their congressionally delegated power to declare wars. Those that did support Bush proved themselves inept and shouldn't have been rewarded with promotions. The lies continue while the majority in Congress choose to buy into the lies. Tulsi Gabbard[[D) declared the Obama/Trump assaults on Syria a farce. This isn't over yet.

You also skimmed over an important point concerning Kosovo. Bill Clinton had no authority to bomb Serbia and takes sides in Kosovo. Even China's embassy was bombed. Serbia did not attack any NATO country and Congress never declared war on Serbia. Bill Clinton bombed Serbia for 78 days.

[aj3647]

Bush lied. Future Democratic presidential candidates John Kerry and Mrs. Clinton, among others, bought into Bush's lies. Not all members of Congress bought into Bush's lies. Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul, for instance, saw through Bush's lies, said so, and voted not to unconstitutionally give Bush their congressionally delegated power to declare wars. Those that did support Bush proved themselves inept and shouldn't have been rewarded with promotions. The lies continue while the majority in Congress choose to buy into the lies. Tulsi Gabbard[[D) declared the Obama/Trump assaults on Syria a farce. This isn't over yet.

You also skimmed over an important point concerning Kosovo. Bill Clinton had no authority to bomb Serbia and takes sides in Kosovo. Even China's embassy was bombed. Serbia did not attack any NATO country and Congress never declared war on Serbia. Bill Clinton bombed Serbia for 78 days.

Yes, Clinton should take flak for her vote on Iraq. She should have been more skeptical, all of them should have. But I don't think it's fair to blame her for the Iraq War as I commonly see many conservatives do. She was one vote in 100 but to hear her critics talk, she led the charge into Baghdad. But yes, this was an entirely fair criticism for her detractors on the Left.

If Bill Clinton violated the War Powers Resolution of 1973 with his bombing of Kosovo, then it was the responsibility of Congress to assert its Constitutional role of providing checks and balances and hold him accountable for it. They did not do so. Clinton was not the first or last President to disregard the War Powers Act and Congress always turns a blind eye. That's on Congress. They're supposed to be a separate and equal branch, but they've essentially become subordinate to the Presidency. Case in point: today's GOP controlled Congress and Trump.

[GMan]

.................................................. ......................................Clinton was not the first or last President to disregard the War Powers Act and Congress always turns a blind eye. That's on Congress. They're supposed to be a separate and equal branch, but they've essentially become subordinate to the Presidency. Case in point: today's GOP controlled Congress and Trump.

AJ, are you suggesting that Congress and Trump have kissed and made up?

Congress does not act because they are enjoying the fruits of their agenda. That is why we do not have secure borders / lower taxes and less govt. intervention.
Amazing how many poor public servants are in Congress.

[Zacha341]

North Korea rejects diplomacy with US for now

I guess talks are not going well, to say the least.........

[Zacha341]

Japan States North Korea Threat As Critical And Imminent

[JBMcB]

North Korea rejects diplomacy with US for now
I guess talks are not going well, to say the least.........

I may be mistaken, but I don't think the US has had direct diplomatic contact with North Korea in 20 years. Everything is done back-channel through South Korea.

[Richard]

I may be mistaken, but I don't think the US has had direct diplomatic contact with North Korea in 20 years. Everything is done back-channel through South Korea.

Sweden is our back channel there,they maintain a small consulate in country to help US citizens.

[Richard]

North Korea rejects diplomacy with US for now


I guess talks are not going well, to say the least.........

The problem is that they have nothing at the table for leverage,without nukes in their mind they would be forced to comply to our demands.

If they have nukes we would be forced to meet them at middle ground.

The flip side for us is if the dictatorships in progress are set up with nukes we be in essence circled with them where we would no longer be protected because of distance.

The Cold War was about Russia and their ability to strike our soil,these days all you need is a small country dictatorship and somebody will supply you with what you need.

Venezuela becomes a solid dictatorship and is supplied with nukes,which then gives them control over South America so to counter react we place nukes in our friendly democratic countries,next thing you know everybody has one and the odds of somebody releasing them increases.

He is a wacko, but not stupid,he knows he may take out a few million if he launches but his country will then become non existent as a result.

So the rhetoric back and forth is him buying time while he gains leverage and us deciding whether or not he should have control of that leverage.

The downside is our previous administration is the one that gave him the funding and means to create that leverage and buy time,that time has run out for us and now we are forced to deal with it,one way or another.

[Jimaz]

Overheard at a restaurant this morning: "North Korea. That's the bad one, right?"

[Zacha341]

Overheard at a restaurant this morning: "North Korea. That's the bad one, right?"

You get that sometimes from people under 35. My father's military grave marker bears various wording per our family request and 'Korea' [[as he wanted). So I have some knowledge of the eh' cozy relationship we've had with North Korea for decades.

We've many Korean merchants and businesses in Detroit who have interesting commentary as to the quotient and outworking of North vs. South Korea!

A fun response would have been 'North Korea? It's not the region were Kia cars are made!' Or were lights are on at night.

Attachment 34467

[Jimaz]

Overheard at a restaurant this morning: "North Korea. That's the bad one, right?"

You get that sometimes from people under 35....

Actually it was from an elderly woman. But that doesn't dispute anything that you wrote.

I guess ignorance comes in all ages. <sigh>

[Richard]

It seems like working in forced labor camps can be hazardous.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...aves-200-dead/

As many as 200 North Korean labourers have been killed after a mine shaft being dug at the regime's nuclear test site collapsed, according to Japan's Asahi TV.


Who would have ever thought that setting off a nuke underground would cause tunnels to collapse.

[Zacha341]

What's a few hundred dead living there? Forced labor and death combo.

[bust]

As pressure on Trump and team builds from the Mueller investigation the chances of conflict with N. Korea get higher and higher. Wouldn't he just love to change the topic and appeal to our patriotism? And with the ratings it would deliver we can count on the TV news to get behind it, as they have time and time again. The meticulously military-approved camera angles won't show their aftermath but they'd frame the fireworks just right.

[Richard]

So hop on over to North Korea and ask him to hold off for a few years while we continue to spend millions in taxpayer dollars chasing ghosts.

See how simple life can be.

It is possible to nuke a country while also having hearings,multi tasking.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Yep! And radiation [[fall out or direct) is not all that discriminating about your party, and other nuances of your planned day!

[Zacha341]

North Korea says it tested a new, nuclear-capable ICBM that can reach continental US

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ry?id=51437178

North Korea boasts it can hit anywhere in the United States with its new missile

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/28/nort...-mainland.html

[Richard]

They have intercepted biological agent shipments between Syria and North Korea,I think if he is going to launch anything it will be chemicals and the whole nuke program is just to gain recognition.

With a shared border of China and Russia he may find it better to send one to a small country in South America to be launched and stay behind the scenes.He knows answering a retaliation from Russia,China and the United States is biting off a bit more then he can chew.

Or he may just be developing them for sell to other countries as a revenue source.

One way or another we are not going to hear the last of it,either today or ten years down the road this will come back and bite us.

This is a bit of a read but a national intelligence council 15 year prediction in 2000.Much of it spot on.

https://www.cia.gov/news-information...0smithson.html

[ABetterDetroit]

Several months into this crisis it is worth noting that coalition building will not be one of this Presidents strengths.

[Richard]

2018 is going to be the decision time when it comes to be dealing with this one way or another.

Iran is in the background waiting to see if we blink,if we do then we will have two to deal with verses one.

[Richard]

They are reporting that N Korea has been procureing their nuclear capability through an office in Berlin,so German intelligence has known about this but yet allowed it to continue.