Welcome to Dem Land

[jcole]

Forgot to add, gee thanks for giving a thumbs up to someone insulting me. I don't have a beef with you. You have been here long enough to remember when we had actual trolls like Karl etc.

My response was not necessarily about you but about the mindset of "we are going to have to vote for whoever gets the Democratic nomination no matter WHO we prefer." It’s expediency over preference this time around. I’d vote for Charlie Brown if I thought he could beat Trump.I don't want to go through another 4 yrs of this crap; regardless of my leanings [[left, centrist or far left) I back the candidate best suited to beating Trump. It's going to be hard enough for a Democrat to get anything through congress until we can flip the majority our way.

[Richard]

^ see that is an example of voting with emotions,and I bet you still cannot figure out how Trump won.

The only crap that has been produced in the past 3.5 years has been from the Democrats letting their emotions overpower common sense.

Unless you are actually saying that you do not want to go through 4 more years of the crap your choices has put out,then it is understandable.

What part of everything they have thrown against the wall has turned into a complete failure is confusing.

See the difference.

Trump operates on it is just politics.
Democrats have been operating on emotions.

Which one has been more productive for the country,you cannot hide from the truth.

You guys keep crying Trump Trump Trump like the party of blame everybody else for your mistakes,how exactly is it Trumps fault that out of 325 million people in this country,you guys cannot produce a candidate that is worth a crap.

Even your so called leadership is crap,they cry that Trump is destroying our democracy,they are the ones destroying our democracy,systematically and with purpose,they have failed the country by not being able to produce a candidate worth a damn.

Ever think maybe Trump is really not that good but you guys are so bad it makes him look good?

I guess at least you guys are doing your part in helping keep America Great,Your President Trump thanks you for that.

Even Klobuchar was getting all teary eyed at the meetings,what happens when she has 30 people in uniform all yelling at her at the same time to push the button,can she be stable enough not to emotionally cave?

I doubt it because it seems like the left has turned into a party run by emotions instead of cool and collected heads.

Heck you could probably throw a spider into one of their town hall meetings and they would all be screaming running for the door.

Do you not find it odd that out of the thousands of democratic politicians the party could not find one conservative Democrat that could take on Trump,that is what would give him a run for his money.

Did they do that by design? Let’s face it,the progressives are good at making a lot of noise but then fall flat in their noses,if Bernie does not get his numbers up to high 30% to 50% really quick he is finished,you guys are falling into the same old 2016 trap and failing to understand what people want.

[Zacha341]

Hah! I remember those deep-troll days! Politics now can get so ugly even on my job sites sometimes I just choose to eat lunch alone, peacefully.

The 'purity' tests re. ones views and voting preferences has folks at each others throats, nearly screaming, families divided etc. I have noted.

I just have to step back at times - I'm not going to eat my heart out!

Forgot to add, gee thanks for giving a thumbs up to someone insulting me. I don't have a beef with you. You have been here long enough to remember when we had actual trolls like Karl etc.

[Pam]

My response was not necessarily about you but about the mindset of "we are going to have to vote for whoever gets the Democratic nomination no matter WHO we prefer." It’s expediency over preference this time around. I’d vote for Charlie Brown if I thought he could beat Trump.I don't want to go through another 4 yrs of this crap; regardless of my leanings [[left, centrist or far left) I back the candidate best suited to beating Trump. It's going to be hard enough for a Democrat to get anything through congress until we can flip the majority our way.

America had problems before Trump. I want someone who can beat Trump AND has goals and policies to help the big issues and problems we face. Bernie can do both. [[Despite what the mass media will tell you, there are polls showing Bernie can beat Trump).

[jcole]

America had problems before Trump. I want someone who can beat Trump AND has goals and policies to help the big issues and problems we face. Bernie can do both. [[Despite what the mass media will tell you, there are polls showing Bernie can beat Trump).

At this point, I am voting for whoever wins the primary. Don't care who. America has always had problems, I agree, but this man is the worst pres we have had and I worry about the future. He has NO humanity in his soul, if indeed, he has one. You could pick a random person from anywhere and some humanity would eventually show through, but that hasn't happened with Trump.
Bernie says that no matter who wins the primary he and the other candidates will support the winner and I hope all of his supporters follow his lead this time.

[oladub]

At this point, I am voting for whoever wins the primary. Don't care who. America has always had problems, I agree, but this man is the worst pres we have had and I worry about the future. He has NO humanity in his soul, if indeed, he has one. You could pick a random person from anywhere and some humanity would eventually show through, but that hasn't happened with Trump.
Bernie says that no matter who wins the primary he and the other candidates will support the winner and I hope all of his supporters follow his lead this time.

What if Michael Bloomberg wins [[buys) the Democratic primary? Are you and Bernie still going to support the winner just because his name isn't Trump?

A Republican Plutocrat Tries To Buy The Democratic Nomination - No Democrat should consider Michael Bloomberg as a candidate.

Presidential candidate Michael Bloomberg is one of the 10 richest persons in the world, with a net worth approaching $60 billion.

He's for the little man and has announced plans for a new $5T tax to try to compete with other Democrats with new spending plans. However much of his new wealth tax will be on corporations. Taxes on corporations, of course, are passed along to consumers so he is proposing a huge new hidden tax on the middle class. The good thing is that billionaires, like himself, won't have to pay for the entire wealth tax. Elsewhere, I read that Bloomberg was just the 14th. richest person in the world so maybe he's just one of us.

[jcole]

What if Michael Bloomberg wins [[buys) the Democratic primary? Are you and Bernie still going to support the winner just because his name isn't Trump?

Um, Yup.... As I said, I will vote for anyone who isn't Trump. If he didn't have a lock on the Republican nomination, I would even consider a Republican if he was centrist enough. You don't understand how much I loathe that man. He has no heart, no humanity, very little brain and absolutely no conscience. He is turning the country I grew up in to a soulless battle ground for those who have the biggest mouths and the most hate in their hearts

[bust]

What are you talking about? "remote controlled" WTF does that mean?

What "doctored video" have I posted? I am a Bernie supporter. The media and the DNC are against him. I post stuff that points that out. If you don't care about that, put me on ignore. I've been on this site way longer than you. I don't like your insinuation that I am some kind of troll.

Pam, you don't remember the video you posted showing "conclusive proof" Hillary Clinton has parkinson's disease? By a self-proclaimed "expert" whose first evidence was a report from InfoWars? And with photos and video of her selectively edited and slowed down to make her look sick?

You don't remember all the conspiracy theories and disinformation you posted here in the run up to the last election, with links to back them up to Russia Today?

Don't be misled!*

I like Bernie too. A lot. I voted for him. And yes, I think he could win. But this time I prefer Warren because I also like her policies, I think they're better thought through, and I think voters will be more likely to unite around her. She'll have longer coattails to elect the democratic senators and representatives we also need.

But like jcole said, I will vote for whatever democrat wins the primaries. And I hope you do too. There is nothing more important than making sure we don't have four more years of Trump. I wish you would put more of your energy in that direction where it is truly needed instead of against the Democratic party and every democrat who isn't Sanders.

And I don't want to argue with you. I want you to wise up. Trump barely won the last election, and there were a lot of factors, but it is unquestionable that people like you helped put him over the top.

Not again!


* respects to Moodymann.

[aj3647]

Pam, you don't remember the video you posted showing "conclusive proof" Hillary Clinton has parkinson's disease? By an expert whose first evidence was a report from InfoWars? And with photos and video of her selectively edited and slowed down to make her look sick?

Remember when Hillary became light-headed at a public event and a staffer assisted her into a vehicle and we were told over and over again from the usual Fake News connoisseurs that she had some terrible secret disease she was hiding from us and would certainly die in her first term in office? Here we are, almost four years later, and she's fine. Time will always expose their lies.

[bust]

What if Michael Bloomberg wins [[buys) the Democratic primary? Are you and Bernie still going to support the winner just because his name isn't Trump?

Bloomberg was my mayor for 12 years.
He's definitely not perfect, but he's eminently capable.
He was very wrong on stop-and-frisk [[as I have often argued on this forum with that ardent stop-and-frisk defender, Wesley Mouch).
And he was right about most of the rest.

Here's what Henry Louis Gates, Jr. said about him:

"Among all the candidates, the person who I believe could stand toe-to-toe, strongest and longest with Donald Trump is Mike Bloomberg.

Why? Who do you think his constituency is? I know Mike Bloomberg socially. Every summer I go to a dinner on Martha’s Vineyard with Mike Bloomberg. I’ve argued with him about policies that I didn’t like. He is enormously intelligent and capable. When he was mayor, I watched him. He could wear it lightly. It’s not like Jimmy Carter with the weight of the world on him. I think that he’s tough, and I think he could take on the bully Donald Trump. Very few people can stand up to a bully. Mike’s got some bully in him. I think he’s good.

“Stop and frisk” isn’t too much of a problem for him? He faces two problems that he has to overcome. He has already apologized for “stop and frisk,” but he has to put it behind him, and also the Central Park Five. What the city and the legal structure did to those five boys was shameful. The mayor has to put that behind him. If he’s successful doing that, I think black people want him, because he is smart, sensitive, strong. I think he cares about health care. He understands the economic system. This is not an endorsement. But I would support him if he got the nomination."

I would enthusiastically vote for him if he's the democratic candidate too.

[rb336]

Pam, you don't remember the video you posted showing "conclusive proof" Hillary Clinton has parkinson's disease? By an expert whose first evidence was a report from InfoWars? And with photos and video of her selectively edited and slowed down to make her look sick?

I do not recall Pam posting such a video. Please provide the thread and post #.

[bust]

I do not recall Pam posting such a video. Please provide the thread and post #.

Thread: Clinton [[D) vs. Trump [[R): [If the General Election Were Held Today]
Post: #131.

She followed it up in post #138 with another video slowed down to make Clinton look wobbly and incoherent. That video has been removed from YouTube.

I'm not going to link to those since that shit needs to go away.

If you want to find some [[but nowhere near all) of her posts supporting actual propaganda direct from Russia Today, put this into Google:

rt.com "pam" site:detroityes.com

But she was by no means the only one doing that. There were many others, including some who are still active today.

And let's please not rehash this old stuff so we can focus on electing a much better president in 2020 than the authoritarian narcissistic sociopath we now have.

My point is we need to stop the infighting and unify against him.

Democratic infighting is precisely what the republicans, and the Russians, are trying to achieve.

The propaganda and disinformation will be much more sophisticated this time.

Reports show Russia mounted sweeping effort to sow divisions, support Trump
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...report-1067113

The Internet Research Agency, Social Media and Political Polarization in the United States, 2012-2018
https://g8fip1kplyr33r3krz5b97d1-wpe...2/document.pdf

[Richard]

^ as long as you posted a link from Political you must feel that they are a reliable news source.

Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly questioning his fitness for office. They also disseminated documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested they were investigating the matter, only to back away after the election. And they helped Clinton’s allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers, a Politico investigation found.

A Ukrainian-American operative who was consulting for the Democratic National Committee met with top officials in the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington in an effort to expose ties between Trump, top campaign aide Paul Manafort and Russia, according to people with direct knowledge of the situation.
The Ukrainian efforts had an impact in the race, helping to force Manafort’s resignation and advancing the narrative that Trump’s campaign was deeply connected to Ukraine’s foe to the east, Russia. But they were far less concerted or centrally directed than Russia’s alleged hacking and dissemination of Democratic emails.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...ackfire-233446

You are confused when you think that the republicans need to create infighting amongst the democratic socialist candidates,they are doing just fine creating it amongst themselves without any help.

Nice of you to support Warren,my guess because once again you are choosing a weak candidate ,when it is all over with you will come up with a thousand excuses of why they lost and everybody else will be to blame once again.

Its really not rocket science,pick a weak candidate,expect to lose.

[Pam]

I've never been to "info wars" so that wasn't where I got the thing about Hillary's health. So maybe she didn't have Parkinson's, but there were several questionable incidents around her health and the story kept changing- it was the heat, no it was pneumonia. Whatever- her biggest problem was corruption and she hasn't recovered from that. I posted stuff about election fraud in the 2016 primaries that was from US researchers and had nothing to do with Russia but apparently nobody read it. There was credible evidence that fraud occurred against Sanders in 2016. I'm not sorry I didn't vote for Hillary.

Here's a real, undoctored video showing who she is.

https://youtu.be/6DXDU48RHLU

As far as Trump being the worst of all time. Have we already forgotten Bush and the torture program? He tops my list. I know some people think he's ok now because he pals around with Ellen and Michelle Obama.

[Richard]

^ That was not torture,they were being nice to the little American killing terrorists and clearing their sinuses with a Neti pot.

They really should have billed their next of kin for the procedure.

Next thing you know there will be kids drinking out of the toilets at the border.

Besides Hilliary and Obama investigated themselves and found they did nothing wrong,so it must be true.

[leapfrog]

^ That was not torture,they were being nice to the little American killing terrorists and clearing their sinuses with a Neti pot.

They really should have billed their next of kin for the procedure.

Next thing you know there will be kids drinking out of the toilets at the border.

Besides Hilliary and Obama investigated themselves and found they did nothing wrong,so it must be true.

Your flippant attitude aside, here is part of the problem. You compare waterboarding [[which is recognized as torture by just about everyone) to a neti pot.

If that is the case, let us know next time YOUR sinuses need clearing, please.

[Zacha341]

^^^ A neti pot feels like waterboarding to me! LOL! I can't do it well!

I have tried and some people swear by them for sinus problems! Hah!

[jcole]

The good thing is that billionaires, like himself, won't have to pay for the entire wealth tax. Elsewhere, I read that Bloomberg was just the 14th. richest person in the world so maybe he's just one of us.

And when have we ever had Presidents who were "one of us"? Even the Founding Fathers were among the wealthiest landowners in the colonies. There may have been a few, but very few, Presidents over the years who were middle class working guys but the only one I can think of off hand is Truman. Most of the rest were renowned in their own states at the very least and were more than upper middle class.

[Richard]

Your flippant attitude aside, here is part of the problem. You compare waterboarding [[which is recognized as torture by just about everyone) to a neti pot.

If that is the case, let us know next time YOUR sinuses need clearing, please.

Actually the problem is you are,well,not you specifically,dealing with people that strap bombs to little children and chop the heads off of their enemies.

Now you can volunteer to cuddle up to them and please them how ever you want in order to get the information that you need,but my guess is that you would never even attempt it.

There are some really nasty people in the world and some times you have to do some really nasty things to save lives.

Who knows,it may be your life they are saving one day.

Mexicans torture and hang chopped up people every day and then hang the body parts from the bridges,it’s pretty clear people do not have a problem with that as they take another toke.

So save the holier then thou speech about the poor little terrorists being treated bad,they cared little about the innocents in the towers,about as much as you would appear to care about.

Quick,you are standing in front of a terrorist that has kidnapped your family,he has already chopped off the head of your youngest,how far are you willing to go in order to get the information you need to save the rest of your family?

Are you really going to place a terrorists well being over your families?Are you willing to sacrifice your family so the terrorist can live a long and happy life free of pain?

Compared to a lot of the rest of the world,we sleep well at night knowing somebody is out there is doing the dirty work so we do not have to.

There are 100s of thousands out there that thier only mission in life is to see you and your entire family dead,who do you think stands between them and you?

It is not the marshmallow man.

Are you really prepared to end your life so their mission fails and they are nice and comfy?

I do not think so.

[oladub]

And when have we ever had Presidents who were "one of us"? Even the Founding Fathers were among the wealthiest landowners in the colonies. There may have been a few, but very few, Presidents over the years who were middle class working guys but the only one I can think of off hand is Truman. Most of the rest were renowned in their own states at the very least and were more than upper middle class.

I was being sarcastic but to answer your question: Going back a hundred years, I would nominate Coolidge, Truman, Eisenhower, and Carter as being "one of us". It is a bit of a jump to go from the neo-Marxist Sanders to supporting Bloomberg the oligarch. About the only thing they have in common is opposing Trump. What, for instance, is Bloomberg's middle-east policy? I haven't seen it mentioned in all his ads. But he's anti-Trump which seems to override all else. Sanders once voted against the Iraq war but what has Bloomberg said about getting our troops out of Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan? Bloomberg's proposal to raise corporate taxes to bill the middle class isn't the same Sanders emptying the coffers of billionaires either.

Originally Posted by Pam As far as Trump being the worst of all time. Have we already forgotten Bush and the torture program? He tops my list."

I would nominate Johnson as being the worst in my lifetime. 60,000 Americans died in Vietnam and an equal number from suicides thanks to Johnson's undeclared Vietnam War. Johnson's war and draft were personally instructive about the Democratic Party. Nixon, strange as he was, ended both. It was a vivid contrast. Bush was pretty bad though; maybe the second worst president in my life.

Pam, Here is Michel Bloomberg enthusiastically endorsing George W. Bush's reelection.
Michael Bloomberg’s Right-Wing Views on Foreign Policy Make Him a Perfect Candidate for the Republican Nomination

[[but he's anti-Trump)

[jcole]

Just going to leave this here

[Richard]

^ pretty much sums up the current Democratic Party in 8 frames or less.

[Pam]

I was being sarcastic but to answer your question: Going back a hundred years, I would nominate Coolidge, Truman, Eisenhower, and Carter as being "one of us". It is a bit of a jump to go from the neo-Marxist Sanders to supporting Bloomberg the oligarch. About the only thing they have in common is opposing Trump. What, for instance, is Bloomberg's middle-east policy? I haven't seen it mentioned in all his ads. But he's anti-Trump which seems to override all else. Sanders once voted against the Iraq war but what has Bloomberg said about getting our troops out of Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan? Bloomberg's proposal to raise corporate taxes to bill the middle class isn't the same Sanders emptying the coffers of billionaires either.

Originally Posted by Pam As far as Trump being the worst of all time. Have we already forgotten Bush and the torture program? He tops my list."

I would nominate Johnson as being the worst in my lifetime. 60,000 Americans died in Vietnam and an equal number from suicides thanks to Johnson's undeclared Vietnam War. Johnson's war and draft were personally instructive about the Democratic Party. Nixon, strange as he was, ended both. It was a vivid contrast. Bush was pretty bad though; maybe the second worst president in my life.

Pam, Here is Michel Bloomberg enthusiastically endorsing George W. Bush's reelection.
Michael Bloomberg’s Right-Wing Views on Foreign Policy Make Him a Perfect Candidate for the Republican Nomination



[[but he's anti-Trump)

Yes, crappy foreign policy is bipartisan. Lots of Dems voted for Trump's bloated defense budget. That's why Tulsi is my second choice after Bernie.

[Pam]

https://www.commondreams.org/news/20...volvement-iowa

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez demanded that the Democratic National Committee be held accountable after documents published by Yahoo News late Thursday detailed the DNC's involvement with the mobile app at the center of the Iowa caucus disaster."If this reporting is correct, then there needs to be accountability at the DNC," the New York Democrat tweeted. "Even if the DNC's access to the tool was 'solely for security testing' as they claim, ProPublica found major hackable vulnerabilities almost immediately—which means they didn't do their job."

[Richard]

Yes, crappy foreign policy is bipartisan. Lots of Dems voted for Trump's bloated defense budget. That's why Tulsi is my second choice after Bernie.

The defense budget covers a diverse group of funding programs,this one included funding for the wall that the Democrats swore up and down that they would never support.