Q Line "Constructive Criticism"

**mtburb** · September-18-17, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by MicrosoftFan

The Grand Station is always full when I hop on there. It has definetly boosted some street traffic in New Center. I do hope that Milwaukee Junction can join in on some of this new development.

...including a park right at the junction itself so anyone can sit back and watch the trains roll by...one can dream of this, right?

**Tig3rzhark** · September-18-17, 06:43 PM

Since the QLine started collected fares, I'm glad that things haved moved in an orderly fashion.

If only the other transit authorities could learn from its example.

Pre-pay at transfer points. Smartphone apps to help pay at farebox. Functional fareboxes...

**Tig3rzhark** · September-21-17, 10:41 AM

QLine just decreased in ridership since the riders had to start paying up.

Check the freep.

**Bham1982** · September-21-17, 10:49 AM

QLine is averaging 3,000 riders per day in warm weather. Not even People Mover numbers.

These downtown trolleys have huge seasonal swings in ridership based on weather, mostly [[because most riders are choice riders, using the train is like a tourist attraction). Look at the Cincy trolley numbers, and the Detroit system appears to be almost an exact parallel.

**Junjie** · September-21-17, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

QLine is averaging 3,000 riders per day in warm weather. Not even People Mover numbers.

These downtown trolleys have huge seasonal swings in ridership based on weather, mostly [[because most riders are choice riders, using the train is like a tourist attraction). Look at the Cincy trolley numbers, and the Detroit system appears to be almost an exact parallel.

The goal of the QLine's builders was never to maximize ridership. If it had been, they'd purchase more trains to run it at 5 minute headways and extend the operating hours, just to start. It's an amenity that will increase property values, serve as a demonstration project, and increase the appeal of all the new housing they're about to build [[if you believe Olympia will follow through, we're looking at about 2000 units announced from just Olympia and Gilbert in the next few years).

It's also extremely early. Why would we expect to people to instantly change their habits? Give it a couple years. Everyone currently living and working in downtown/midtown initially arranged their life around something other than the QLine, whether car, bus, bike, or whatever. Some of those will change what they do, but many won't. At the same time, new people will move in who choose to rely on it from the start. And any expansions to the line/system will help. Ridership will grow.

This is a useful line serving a large number of high traffic destinations. The fundamentals mean that, assuming good service quality, it will easily pass the People Mover over time.

**Honky Tonk** · September-24-17, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by Junjie

The goal of the QLine's builders was never to maximize ridership. If it had been, they'd purchase more trains to run it at 5 minute headways and extend the operating hours, just to start. It's an amenity that will increase property values, serve as a demonstration project, and increase the appeal of all the new housing they're about to build [[if you believe Olympia will follow through, we're looking at about 2000 units announced from just Olympia and Gilbert in the next few years).

It's also extremely early. Why would we expect to people to instantly change their habits? Give it a couple years. Everyone currently living and working in downtown/midtown initially arranged their life around something other than the QLine, whether car, bus, bike, or whatever. Some of those will change what they do, but many won't. At the same time, new people will move in who choose to rely on it from the start. And any expansions to the line/system will help. Ridership will grow.

This is a useful line serving a large number of high traffic destinations. The fundamentals mean that, assuming good service quality, it will easily pass the People Mover over time.

One day pigs will learn to fly eliminating the need for trucks to drive them to market.

**Junjie** · September-24-17, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

One day pigs will learn to fly eliminating the need for trucks to drive them to market.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. My only points were:

1. The QLine wasn't funded and built with the goal of maximizing ridership as an end unto itself.

2. Transit ridership on new lines always takes time [[on the order of years) to grow. Transportation habits are connected to housing and job choices that don't shift overnight. Plenty of data available on this through the Google if you need to verify.

**Bham1982** · September-24-17, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Junjie

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. My only points were:

1. The QLine wasn't funded and built with the goal of maximizing ridership as an end unto itself.

2. Transit ridership on new lines always takes time [[on the order of years) to grow. Transportation habits are connected to housing and job choices that don't shift overnight. Plenty of data available on this through the Google if you need to verify.

LOL to both "points". Transit isn't built for ridership, and new transit doesn't draw riders. The spin is extremely heavy today.

The trolley doesn't even draw anywhere near the bus ridership on Woodward [[which was cut to accomodate the trolley), but supposedly it's a game-changer.

Of course, if the trolley actually drew decent ridership, there would be a billion posts claiming evidence for massive success.

**emu steve** · September-21-17, 11:57 AM

There were two, not one, factors taking place:

1). Collection of fares,

2). Start of school. Start of school is disruptive to a lot of things like sports and entertainment and then things kind of plateau after folks adjust to their new schedules, etc.

It would be nice to have some data which could be 'seasonally adjusted' that is rider ship will fall in Fall, a little further in Winter, rise in Spring and probably be highest in Summer.

But to do that we'd need say 3 years worth of monthly ridership data.

DetroitNightLights · September-24-17, 01:46 AM

The QLine should act as the Woodward corridor's Flexbus.

**emu steve** · September-24-17, 07:03 AM

I hear the QLINE was crazy last night w. Tigers, Wings, Fox, Fillmore, Opera House, etc. all having a night for the ages in that part of Detroit.

**Zacha341** · September-24-17, 08:15 AM

And there were many out along Woodward etc. during the Dlecticity nights along the with the street lights turned out during the events.

All went well but it was a pretty wild time for driving!

Originally Posted by emu steve

I hear the QLINE was crazy last night w. Tigers, Wings, Fox, Fillmore, Opera House, etc. all having a night for the ages in that part of Detroit.

**coracle** · September-24-17, 08:30 AM

It's already a success. It's a beautiful looking machine and adds a bit of class to the appearance of downtown. [[I enjoyed my ride on it. I did it when it was free because I'm "cheap".)

"Everybody" on the route must be thinking of how they can dump their cars to save thousands of dollars per year, and stick it to Insurers, Gas Staions, Parking Garages, not to mention Car Manufacturers. The ridership will slowly increase because it looks right. [[provided it can be run efficiently!).

**MrMichigan** · September-24-17, 01:38 PM

Drove from Midtown to Downtown around 12:30 today and every southbound station was packed with Lions fans waiting for the Qline. Seemed like they had been there for quite awhile.

**emu steve** · September-24-17, 08:12 PM

Yes, I observed the same. People were packed in the stations near the stadium.

Rather, the biggest lines were leaving the stadium. I have no idea how long it would take for the QLine to pick all of them up.

I was in the areas by WSU and the stadiums and I saw heavy usage even Saturday.

**emu steve** · September-24-17, 08:31 PM

BTW, as predicted by some posters here, the biggest problem will be cars 'stuck' in the QLine lane[[s).

Saw one car which was 'disabled'. Saw a line of say a dozen cars Sunday which were stuck trying to turn from the QLine lane to E. bound Fisher service way. All because of 'gridlock.' And right behind them was a QLine train approaching Montcalm.

**pocketchange** · September-25-17, 10:57 AM

Rode it for the first time Friday night [[Dlectricity + Parktoberfest) and used the app to buy tickets. Handy.

There was an ambassador checking for tickets on the 1st ride. Nothing on the second. So are you supposed to scan your phone app somehow if no one is there? It didn't seem like the machine at the door could scan, only be used for buying tickets if you didn't have them when you got on?

Also the voice/text announcements weren't working on the first trip. Also was surprised the timing of the next train was only shown on a relatively small display above a map. Maybe I missed a bigger display?

**drjeff** · September-25-17, 02:30 PM

How is ridership being counted since ticket purchases can be for an entire day? Not to mention the fact that I have yet to see anyone checking tickets and I suspect many people are still riding for free. How are all these people being counted?

**professorscott** · September-25-17, 02:38 PM

The QLine was built for a variety of reasons, and how important each reason is varies by the individual involved in the project. From the point of view of the early investors, as far as I could determine, the chief reasons were to improve the vitality of the midtown-downtown corridor in order to facilitate reinvestment in the corridor, to provide a connection from the Amtrak station to downtown, to provide a catalyst for future transit improvements [[people could see something that worked well and was well received) and to provide an additional transit option for people traveling southbound from the midtown neighborhoods [[where the DDOT 53 is often full and the SMART 450/460 do not pick up passengers).

The DDOT mid-city loop bus, route 42, which was launched I think about a month before QLine began free service, has the effect of extending the effective reach of QLine into nearby neighborhoods not otherwise well served by transit at all. That's not the only reason it was put in, but it will be interesting to see the amount of interaction.

In regard to the question of counting, there are a variety of ways this is done. Some transit systems have the driver count the passengers as they board; some have vehicles with on-board passenger counting systems. Nobody with honor-system fare payment can rely on the fare-box to count entries, and that is certainly not unique to QLine. I'm not sure exactly which method QLine is using, or if they're doing it in some way I never heard of. I wasn't involved at that level of detail.

**pocketchange** · September-26-17, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by professorscott

In regard to the question of counting, there are a variety of ways this is done. Some transit systems have the driver count the passengers as they board; some have vehicles with on-board passenger counting systems. Nobody with honor-system fare payment can rely on the fare-box to count entries, and that is certainly not unique to QLine. I'm not sure exactly which method QLine is using, or if they're doing it in some way I never heard of. I wasn't involved at that level of detail.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...oit/105860766/

The QLine uses an automated passenger counter to calculate its ridership levels. The technology uses body heat on the streetcar among other things to determine riders on board.

**Tig3rzhark** · September-26-17, 06:51 AM

The transfers that QLine issues for the passengers to transfer to DDOT/SMART do not work on the buses at this time.

Don't expect to be able to get on a bus through a QLine Transfer.

Until each transit authority fixes its bugs.

You will have to pay full fare, should u decide to get on a DDOT/SMART bus.

I've tried using the QLine transfers, only for it to be rejected by the machine.

**mtburb** · September-26-17, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Tig3rzhark

The transfers that QLine issues for the passengers to transfer to DDOT/SMART do not work on the buses at this time.

Don't expect to be able to get on a bus through a QLine Transfer.

Until each transit authority fixes its bugs.

You will have to pay full fare, should u decide to get on a DDOT/SMART bus.

I've tried using the QLine transfers, only for it to be rejected by the machine.

If that's the case then maybe M-1 shouldn't have started issuing these transfers too early in advance.

**professorscott** · September-26-17, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by mtburb

If that's the case then maybe M-1 shouldn't have started issuing these transfers too early in advance.

Why are we relying on the notoriously broken-down DDOT fareboxes for anything whatever? Show your driver that you have a transfer; he can manually input the fact into the farebox by pressing a button, just like he is supposed to press a button to indicate someone has put a bicycle on the bike carrier. Or is there some reason that's not possible?