A petition to remove the Steeples from Sweetest Heart of Mary Church

**EastsideAl** · July-13-17, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by hybridy

i gather the diocese has plenty of $$$. look to other midwest dioceses.

"The most important issues about the church cover up of sex crimes in Milwaukee remain unanswered and unresolved, especially the disturbing pattern of financial fraud and mismanagement by church officials. The most obvious example is the transfer of nearly $60 million dollars by former Archbishop Timothy Dolan into a so-called “Cemetery Trust” before the archdiocese filed for bankruptcy. Evidence has repeatedly surfaced in court showing a pattern of financial corruption, most glaringly a letter from Dolan to the Vatican seeking permission to create the Cemetery Trust in order to keep US courts from compensation victims such as ourselves."

I still find it extremely galling that Dolan was rewarded with a cardinalship, the diocese of New York, and a leadership position in the American church for finagling his previous diocese into bankruptcy to prevent recompence to the victims of the systematic sexual assaulting of powerless deaf kids by church-protected priests. As beautiful as Sweetest Heart of Mary and many other churches are, frankly I think it would be a service to humankind if every edifice of this massively corrupt, exploitive, and uncaring institution were to crumble to the earth as soon as possible.

**Gistok** · July-13-17, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

I still find it extremely galling that Dolan was rewarded with a cardinalship, the diocese of New York, and a leadership position in the American church for finagling his previous diocese into bankruptcy to prevent recompence to the victims of the systematic sexual assaulting of powerless deaf kids by church-protected priests. As beautiful as Sweetest Heart of Mary and many other churches are, frankly I think it would be a service to humankind if every edifice of this massively corrupt, exploitive, and uncaring institution were to crumble to the earth as soon as possible.

Having a pissy day?

Your logic makes as much sense as tearing down all the old downtown movie palaces, because the African-Americans had to sit in back of the balcony for decades... Also not one of the better moments in a buildings history...

**Danny** · July-13-17, 09:16 PM

Removing the Steeples from Sweetest Heart of Mary Church IT'S HORRIBLE!!!

**EastsideAl** · July-13-17, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Having a pissy day?

Your logic makes as much sense as tearing down all the old downtown movie palaces, because the African-Americans had to sit in back of the balcony for decades... Also not one of the better moments in a buildings history...

What a weird comparison you make. That comparison really only works if the movie patrons were also systematically and repeatedly assaulted and raped by movie theater employees, who they were told were good people that they had to trust and obey. Then were told they were crazy horrible damned-to-hell people for reporting or even mentioning said rapes. While the owners of the movie theater worked frantically to protect their employees from any consequences for their raping, kept paying and even promoting the employee/rapists, and hid their own profits from any possibility that the rape victims could be recompensed for their systematic abuse. Oh, and the owner of the theater then is rewarded by being named the head of the largest chain of movie theaters for his role in successfully covering up the rapes and hiding the money from the victims.

A more apt comparison than tearing down movie theaters would be when the Allies blew all the swastikas off of German buildings and pulled down all those statues of their former leaders.

**canuck** · July-13-17, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by Danny

Removing the Steeples from Sweetest Heart of Mary Church IT'S HORRIBLE!!!

Just play it back in your mind...

Removing the Steeples from Sweetest Heart of Mary.

Isn't there something oddly draculesque about that title?

**Gistok** · July-14-17, 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

What a weird comparison you make.

And wishing for the destruction of over 1/4 million churches is normal?

**archfan** · July-14-17, 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by Richard

Here and on you tube are drone views,there is a open to the elements large section by the base which is not good.

http://www.deadlinedetroit.com/artic...e#.WWd-UPD3bYU

The drone footage is of St. Josaphat when it had storm damage to its main steeple a few years ago. The church with the endangered steeples is Sweetest Heart of Mary. It's just a few blocks away from St. Josaphat, because... oh, just follow the links and read the history. It's fascinating, and Ren did a good job writing it.

**archfan** · July-14-17, 01:33 AM

The Historic District Commission tabled the permit until next month:

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...ting_spir.html

**kathy2trips** · July-15-17, 02:50 AM

They need to be reinforced. The Statue Of Liberty was deteriorating too and they didn't tear that down. The steeples are beautiful and say "this is an historic church"! New churches are not allowed to build structures like this. Once gone, Detroit, it will be gone forever.

As a Catholic, I have all kinds of issues with my church to numerous to mention here. In this case, I find it ludicrous that Rome supports all kinds of endeavors world-wide, but will not contribute to anything whatsoever in the USA because they think we are "rich", yet expect us to shell out for whatever they say. Then they wonder why they are losing parishoners here by the bushel-load. The Archdiocese should sell some of their many properties and also arrange fund-raisers. They've done it for others in the past. Also, every church in the archdiocese should pass the basket at mass specifically for this project. Why not?

**emu steve** · July-15-17, 07:18 AM

I'm not sure about Rome or even the Archdiocese, but the question is:

Does this parish have enough 'potential' to prudently borrow money from the Archdiocese and pay it off over say 10 years?

Can the parish raise their giving by say 10% per year [[$100K) and use the rest from their reserves?

I saw the archdiocese website, but don't know how fast the parish is growing [[doesn't appear to be). According to a survey there, most parishioners don't live within the parish boundaries.

Will population growth in Midtown help increase parish membership and giving? The parish has about 1,000 families according to their statistics.

**Meddle** · July-15-17, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Will population growth in Midtown help increase parish membership and giving? The parish has about 1,000 families according to their statistics.

If the population is the generation that is increasingly 'non', then they may never even set foot in the place. 'Nons' are increasing nationwide and at a fairly good pace.

**emu steve** · July-15-17, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

If the population is the generation that is increasingly 'non', then they may never even set foot in the place. 'Nons' are increasing nationwide and at a fairly good pace.

You are probably right. Those who attend church are less and less millennials who presumably are the ones moving into Midtown.

**Zacha341** · July-15-17, 09:17 AM

Also a factor are those who choose other options [[UU, Evangelical, Lutheran, Non-Denominational, etc).

Originally Posted by emu steve

You are probably right. Those who attend church are less and less millennials who presumably are the ones moving into Midtown.

**Honky Tonk** · July-15-17, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Also a factor are those who choose other options [[UU, Evangelical, Lutheran, Non-Denominational, etc).

I choose Richard Pryor's "Church Of What's Happenin' Now".

**Zacha341** · July-15-17, 09:59 AM

LOL! Are you speaking of that Rev. Lenox crank church of 'Which Way Is Up?'? One of my favorite Pryor films!

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

I choose Richard Pryor's "Church Of What's Happenin' Now".

**Lowell** · July-15-17, 11:12 AM

A "Save the Sweetest Steeples" crowd-funding effort would seem to have decent prospects to cover the difference in cost between saving them and destroying them.

As we have seen and discussed here the Detroit Mass Mob has successfully been filling the magnificent old inner city cathedrals with well-to-do, largely suburban worshippers in flash mob fashion. That included once packing Sweetest Heart of Mary.

The sentiment exists and hopefully it can be harnessed.

**Honky Tonk** · July-15-17, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

LOL! Are you speaking of that Rev. Lenox crank church of 'Which Way Is Up?'? One of my favorite Pryor films!

No, it was a bit he did on one of his albums, maybe "Wanted".

**Honky Tonk** · July-15-17, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by canuck

Just play it back in your mind...

Removing the Steeples from Sweetest Heart of Mary.

Isn't there something oddly draculesque about that title?

"I vant to remove your steeples, ha-ha-ha..."

**Jimaz** · July-15-17, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

I choose Richard Pryor's "Church Of What's Happenin' Now".

You might be thinking of Flip Wilson. Skip ahead to 9:23 in this clip for the funniest part:

Flip Wilson Show The Church Of What's Happening Now

**emu steve** · July-15-17, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Lowell

A "Save the Sweetest Steeples" crowd-funding effort would seem to have decent prospects to cover the difference in cost between saving them and destroying them.

As we have seen and discussed here the Detroit Mass Mob has successfully been filling the magnificent old inner city cathedrals with well-to-do, largely suburban worshippers in flash mob fashion. That included once packing Sweetest Heart of Mary.

The sentiment exists and hopefully it can be harnessed.

Consider that posters here know of the effort by the parish:

https://www.motherofdivinemercy.org/

**Richard** · July-15-17, 02:56 PM

So what is the structure of Catholic Churches , are they kinda like franchises with Rome being the main one and everybody kicks up to them?

I was raised Lutheran and we always had ugly 1960s 70s box churches,I probably would be horrible attending mass because I would be more interested in checking out the structure then paying attention to what was being said.

**emu steve** · July-15-17, 03:31 PM

The Catholic Church has an ancient structure. Bishops are considered successors to the Apostles. The Bishop rules over the diocese [[or archdiocese). Churches, schools, etc. belong to the diocese, not the individual parish. A pastor assists the Bishop as obviously the Bishop could not administer all of the parishes. The parochial vicars [[priests who are not a pastor) assist the pastor of the individual parish.

That said, each parish has its own finances, own staff, own council, etc.

Or a parish can be thought of as a subsidiary of the diocese. The diocese owns it but it is run by its pastor. The diocese assigns pastors and parochial vicars to individual parishes.

The diocese can lend money, etc. to individual parishes for building projects. The diocese approves spending over X number of dollars by individual parishes.

The bishop can also close parishes, merge parishes, close [[or start) schools, etc.

I believe it is correct that each bishop really answers only to the pope and the Vatican. Generally every 5 years each bishop meets with the pope for a review of his diocese.

**Zacha341** · July-15-17, 03:38 PM

Newer steeples or replacements are now made of fiberglass like this from this company: http://www.fsiweb.com/steeple_index.asp

**Meddle** · July-15-17, 05:22 PM

Speaking of structure .... how are these built? Inner stairwells of some kind to get to the top?

**Gistok** · July-15-17, 06:35 PM

While looking at the website emu steve linked to, that parish now only consists of Sweetest Heart of Mary and St. Josiphat's. The 3rd church in that parish... historic St. Joseph's [[1870, Gratiot at Orleans)... is now no longer part of that parish... but has been rechristened as an Oratory. I don't remember any discussions about that... but this happened last October....
http://www.aod.org/our-archdiocese/n...ous-community/

I looked up Oratory....

In the Roman Catholic Church, an oratory is a structure other than a parish church, set aside by ecclesiastical authority for prayer and the celebration of Mass.

http://www.institute-christ-king.org/detroit/