What will Detroit look like in 20 years?

[Honky Tonk]

Leverage for federal and state dollars.

Then the money gets spent on "freebies" for the poor, and we get nowhere.

[the rock]

Will bees replace pit bulls to stay away from when you take a walk?

[dtowncitylover]

Detroit could be a very stable city with 300,000 less population if the 300,000 that leave are the "right" people.

Wow. No this is completely wrong. No one should have to leave Detroit. Damn Hermod, first your complicit in and still defend building freeways that displaced tens of thousands of African Americans into poorly planned and failed housing projects and now you say that the "right" people need to move so Detroit can get better.

OR we can invest in these people's lives instead of casting them off. How about we right the wrongs of Black Bottom and Paradise Valley and invest in communities so the cycle of teenage pregnancy, generational welfare, and crime end. Or no, because that's "socialism" [[when it's clearly not)?

Where do you suggest they go?

[ABetterDetroit]

Leverage for federal and state dollars.

Fair argument on federal dollars. A point could be made though that Detroit received unprecedented federal attention when the Mayor was capable of getting a working lunch with the President of the United States. A population number one way or the other has little to do with political clout.

As far as state dollars you would have a lot more convincing to do. Michigan has so terribly mismanaged fiscal policy on how to let the large cities in this state even have a fighting chance that Lansings own stupidity has caused extremely large sums of tax dollars to be wasted putting out forest fires that started out as neglected smoldering problems. It is ironic that in their decades long quest to make certain cities dysfunctional that it has ultimately backfired on them in a major way. Nobody in this country is impressed with any of the governing in this state to the point of Michigan has become the poster child of how NOT to do it.

[Wheels]

Wow. No this is completely wrong. No one should have to leave Detroit. Damn Hermod, first your complicit in and still defend building freeways that displaced tens of thousands of African Americans into poorly planned and failed housing projects and now you say that the "right" people need to move so Detroit can get better.

OR we can invest in these people's lives instead of casting them off. How about we right the wrongs of Black Bottom and Paradise Valley and invest in communities so the cycle of teenage pregnancy, generational welfare, and crime end. Or no, because that's "socialism" [[when it's clearly not)?

Where do you suggest they go?

So your answer is Stay The Course!

[Ray1936]

Nobody in this country is impressed with any of the governing in this state to the point of Michigan has become the poster child of how NOT to do it.

No, I am pretty sure Illinois has Michigan beat in that category.

[Jimaz]

Nobody in this country is impressed with any of the governing in this state to the point of Michigan has become the poster child of how NOT to do it.

No, I am pretty sure Illinois has Michigan beat in that category.

Or perhaps Kansas.

[Gistok]

No, I am pretty sure Illinois has Michigan beat in that category.

Ray... you've got that right.... Illinois makes Detroit [[pre-bankruptcy) seem downright fiscally responsible. The clock is ticking on them....

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/repor...s-in-illinois/

[Hermod]

Wow. No this is completely wrong. No one should have to leave Detroit. Damn Hermod, first your complicit in and still defend building freeways that displaced tens of thousands of African Americans into poorly planned and failed housing projects and now you say that the "right" people need to move so Detroit can get better.

OR we can invest in these people's lives instead of casting them off. How about we right the wrongs of Black Bottom and Paradise Valley and invest in communities so the cycle of teenage pregnancy, generational welfare, and crime end. Or no, because that's "socialism" [[when it's clearly not)?

Where do you suggest they go?

Wait just a minute. Displacement of the black population of the slums was one of the "great progressive [[socialist) ideas" of the 1945-1965 timeframe. If we just took the slum dwellers out of the slums [[like Paradise Valley) and gave them beautiful high rise apartments, they would quickly become productive members of society and teen pregnancy, generational welfare, and crime would go away. Whoops, the law of unintended consequences just came into play. The slum dwellers brought the slum with them. Uh, oh! What do we progressives [[socialists) do now? I know, we will build the housing for the poor in stable communities. Uh, oh, these are no longer stable communities. Coleman Young now has his kingdom for life. How is it working out for you? Solutions for Detroit? Damn, I can not see any other than a very, very persuasive Marcus Garvey. I guess another dictatorial solution would be to redistribute African-Americans so that they make up 13% of every political jurisdiction in the US. From a practicability standpoint, just let cities like Detroit, Flint, Gary, and Newark die their natural death.

[ABetterDetroit]

Sigh... The Michigan mindset keeps on rolling. "Hey there's a stinky turd that's worse right over there!"

At least Illinois has many thousands of college educated people to help them out of their mess bought and paid for by the tax payers of Michigan.

Chicago is chock full of them. "The kids are coming home from Chicago for Christmas with the grand children" is a family holiday saying here in Michigan.

Illinois just got overly fat and happy eating off of Michigan's and Ohio's plate for several decades.

Nothing for us to be proud of that's for sure.

[masterblaster]

From a practicability standpoint, just let cities like Detroit, Flint, Gary, and Newark die their natural death.

If you believe that Detroit should just die a natural death, what is the point of being on a DetroitYES forum? Why don't you just move on from this doomed, dreadful place and stop bothering this forum with your incessant doom and gloom and negative attitude. You haven't lived here in like 60 years. Just move on.

There are a lot of incessantly negative people on this forum - 3WC, SyGolden, Meddle - who, whenever they talk about the city, put it down. I get it. Its the "big" worst city in America. But none of them have said Detroit should just shrivel up and die.


If you think so little of this place, why are posting on here everyday? Just let it go, sir.

[Zacha341]

Yes, thank you for your thoughtful response PS. You've made a compelling argument for the need of anchor areas. Where I live has benefited somewhat from the growth and expansion of Midtown. I have to admit that. So how do we extend that to say Fenkell and Lesure? Or say E. Forest and Iroquois? There are so many streets/ areas completely cut off from development. But I am happy to see more mom and pop art communities popping up in areas I'd not think they would be.

...So the question, right now, is how do we take the successes we are seeing in the QLine corridor and extend them - bring some nice mix of retail back into the neighborhoods east, west and north of the corridor, and then spread that over time. It's going to take time and a lot of effort, and over that period mistakes will be made, and not everything is going to work, for a thousand different reasons. Detroit did not fail overnight or for any single reason or in any single place, and the rebuilding of Detroit isn't going to be any simpler than its large-scale destruction and abandonment had been.

[Dino]

In 20 years, Detroit will still tell a tale of two cities. With the influx of young energetic people, and optimistic and undaunted out-of-towners like the Old-New Yorkers coming in, downtown Detroit will be much like many nicer cities in the U.S. Mixed-use developments will create medium-to-high end housing, plus commercial. And small-to-medium sized industry just outside of downtown will recapture an echo of some of our former industrial identity.

The outer neighborhoods will continue to be run by ferals.

The struggle will be in keeping the violence and lawlessness of the neighborhoods from upsetting the delicate ecosystem being built downtown. Too little law enforcement and the ferals will loot and pillage. Too much law enforcement and the ferals will loot & burn.

City & State Government will need to keep the entrepreneurial engine running in the city center, while taking as much grant money from the Federales as possible to feed the outer neighborhoods to hopefully keep them fat, drunk, and happy enough to not stagger into downtown to cause trouble.

[dtowncitylover]

Wait just a minute. Displacement of the black population of the slums was one of the "great progressive [[socialist) ideas" of the 1945-1965 timeframe. If we just took the slum dwellers out of the slums [[like Paradise Valley) and gave them beautiful high rise apartments, they would quickly become productive members of society and teen pregnancy, generational welfare, and crime would go away. Whoops, the law of unintended consequences just came into play. The slum dwellers brought the slum with them. Uh, oh! What do we progressives [[socialists) do now? I know, we will build the housing for the poor in stable communities. Uh, oh, these are no longer stable communities. Coleman Young now has his kingdom for life. How is it working out for you? Solutions for Detroit? Damn, I can not see any other than a very, very persuasive Marcus Garvey. I guess another dictatorial solution would be to redistribute African-Americans so that they make up 13% of every political jurisdiction in the US. From a practicability standpoint, just let cities like Detroit, Flint, Gary, and Newark die their natural death.

Didn't the whole slum removal begin under a Republican mayor during a Republican president? Yes, yes it did. This has nothing to do with socialism but everything to do with misguided belief that somehow freeways and slum clearance would revitalize poor communities. Well it didn't work.

And yet you still didn't answer my question about where you think 300,000 residents, who seem to have little value to you, should go. But hey you know all about that when the city shipped off the residents of Black Bottom...

[Bham1982]

Wait just a minute. Displacement of the black population of the slums was one of the "great progressive [[socialist) ideas" of the 1945-1965 timeframe. If we just took the slum dwellers out of the slums [[like Paradise Valley) and gave them beautiful high rise apartments, they would quickly become productive members of society and teen pregnancy, generational welfare, and crime would go away. Whoops, the law of unintended consequences just came into play. The slum dwellers brought the slum with them. Uh, oh! What do we progressives [[socialists) do now?

This is absurd and inaccurate. Urban renewal had strong bipartisan support. It wasn't remotely considered "socialist".

And it worked, to an extent. Horrible slums were removed. The new housing was certainly much nicer. Yes, social problems weren't eradicated, but I don't think many thought that housing, by itself, would magically "fix" every social problem in the country.

In cities where urban renewal was accompanied by actual investment in families, the results were pretty strong. Public housing in NYC, to this day, is very much in demand. In cities like Detroit, where urban renewal occurred in tandem with the emptying of the city, and where support for social programs was weak, results were more mixed.

From a practicability standpoint, just let cities like Detroit, Flint, Gary, and Newark die their natural death.

Newark is growing and is much more prosperous than much of "Red State" US. Flint and Gary are very troubled, but for reasons having nothing to do with urban renewal [[they barely had any to begin with). They're single industry towns where the industry left.

[SammyS]

If you believe that Detroit should just die a natural death, what is the point of being on a DetroitYES forum? Why don't you just move on from this doomed, dreadful place and stop bothering this forum with your incessant doom and gloom and negative attitude. You haven't lived here in like 60 years. Just move on.

There are a lot of incessantly negative people on this forum - 3WC, SyGolden, Meddle - who, whenever they talk about the city, put it down. I get it. Its the "big" worst city in America. But none of them have said Detroit should just shrivel up and die.


If you think so little of this place, why are posting on here everyday? Just let it go, sir.

Not referring to anyone around here but I will speak about people I know personally who have a negative opinion of Detroit.

I've noticed there are multiple tiers to the hate.

1. Ignorant:

Those that have never lived or barely ever visit. They grew up in the suburbs and have been indoctrinated by their parents and friends that Detroit is a shithole and will never return to its prior glory.

2. Fear:

Those who have fled during the bad times. Scares are difficult to heal and so they subconsciously block any possibility of a resurgence from their psyche

3. Regret:

This is a new phenomenon for Detroiters. Those that have witnessed massive positive growth over the last few years but publically denounce its sustainability. Deep down, they wish they had of acted on the opportunity earlier. They relish in any negative news just to satisfy and justify their wrong decision and lack of foresight.

This mindset is difficult to change since it's inherent to all aspects of their life. Always negative, never take risks and despise other people's good fortune.

[Gsgeorge]

3. Regret:

This is a new phenomenon for Detroiters. Those that have witnessed massive positive growth over the last few years but publically denounce its sustainability. Deep down, they wish they had of acted on the opportunity earlier. They relish in any negative news just to satisfy and justify their wrong decision and lack of foresight.

This is the most frustrating insecure kind of Detroit hate. I literally see it every day on the Freep and DetNews Facebook comments sections. It's astounding the number of self-loathing Detroiters, in the city and suburbs. It's a phenomena that others from outside of the city have taken note of when doing business or projects here. It's often mentioned to me as one of the major hurdles that is preventing Detroit from 'moving on', socially and economically. A lot of Detroiters think the world is out to get them. Too bad, because most of the rest of the world [[outside the USA) really respects and is fascinated by Detroit. When Detroiters show up with a know-it-all / victim attitude, that reputation is crushed. People love Detroiters because we are resilient and positive, hard-working and skilled, we should continue to capitalize on that. Stay positive people.

[313WX]

Not referring to anyone around here but I will speak about people I know personally who have a negative opinion of Detroit.

I've noticed there are multiple tiers to the hate.

1. Ignorant:

Those that have never lived or barely ever visit. They grew up in the suburbs and have been indoctrinated by their parents and friends that Detroit is a shithole and will never return to its prior glory.

2. Fear:

Those who have fled during the bad times. Scares are difficult to heal and so they subconsciously block any possibility of a resurgence from their psyche

3. Regret:

This is a new phenomenon for Detroiters. Those that have witnessed massive positive growth over the last few years but publically denounce its sustainability. Deep down, they wish they had of acted on the opportunity earlier. They relish in any negative news just to satisfy and justify their wrong decision and lack of foresight.

This mindset is difficult to change since it's inherent to all aspects of their life. Always negative, never take risks and despise other people's good fortune.

Does it make you feel so much better about yourself to paint everyone else with an extremely broad brush and thus put them down?

[SammyS]

Does it make you feel so much better about yourself to paint everyone else with an extremely broad brush and thus put them down?

No but I try and put up a good argument when I'm approached by any one of the characters I mentioned above and yes, they typically fall into one of the three categories.

Anyway, I thought I was clear in my first sentence. This is MY experience of D haters. If you think it applies to anyone here or even yourself, then that's your conclusion. If you consider anyone else or yourself inside a separate category, then tell us about it.

[313WX]

No but I try and put up a good argument when I'm approached by any one of the characters I mentioned above and yes, they typically fall into one of the three categories.

Anyway, I thought I was clear in my first sentence. This is MY experience of D haters. If you think it applies to anyone here or even yourself, then that's your conclusion. If you consider anyone else or yourself inside a separate category, then tell us about it.

You're entitled to your opinion.

I'm just merely stating that these so-called "haters" you seem to despise will never take you and your opinions seriously if you trivialize their perspective on things with silly labels.

That's all I have to say in response.

[Bham1982]

I find the "regret" hypothesis to be pretty implausible. I really doubt the "Detroit sucks" MAGA crowd is pining to live in a Cass Corridor loft.

And no one "missed the boat". If you really think Detroit is booming, and want to take part, nothing is stopping you. We aren't exactly talking Manhattan prices here. Any middle class person can easily buy a home near downtown.

[K-slice]

The real thing holding Detroit back are the residents who think the city was somehow better 10, 20, 30 years ago. The people who think Quicken, Dan Gilbert, Olympia, everyone who has invested in the city, and any "new" residents are worse than the plague. They long for the days when downtown was full of empty skyscrapers, we had a hip-hop Mayor, and the police didn't bother kids just trying to have a good time the night before Halloween. They weren't really doing any better than they are today, but at lease back then nobody who lived in the city was. Now days they see downtown full of well employed professionals, buildings and houses around them being renovated, blight removed, and they can't stand it.

[archfan]

3. Regret:

This is a new phenomenon for Detroiters. Those that have witnessed massive positive growth over the last few years but publically denounce its sustainability. Deep down, they wish they had of acted on the opportunity earlier. They relish in any negative news just to satisfy and justify their wrong decision and lack of foresight.

This mindset is difficult to change since it's inherent to all aspects of their life. Always negative, never take risks and despise other people's good fortune.

There have been multiple times Detroit has shown signs of a comeback, and people have thrown their heart into making that happen, only to have things come crashing down around them. What you are seeing are people who were burned in the past, and are skeptical of the improvements they're seeing now.

I believe this time Detroit is over the hump toward a permanent improvement. I believe there is enough momentum and business diversity to take us through the next downturn in the auto industry. Some people can't believe anymore.

[Hermod]

Didn't the whole slum removal begin under a Republican mayor during a Republican president? Yes, yes it did. This has nothing to do with socialism but everything to do with misguided belief that somehow freeways and slum clearance would revitalize poor communities. Well it didn't work.

And yet you still didn't answer my question about where you think 300,000 residents, who seem to have little value to you, should go. But hey you know all about that when the city shipped off the residents of Black Bottom...

1. No, The Detroit Freeway system was planned much, much earlier than Eisenhower. Construction of the Lodge and Ford began in the 1940s under Mayor Jeffries [[and Truman) when I was in grade school [[Anthony Wayne). Cities saw the Eisenhower Interstate Highway program as a massive piggy bank to fund their expressway plans though Ike's original concept was to connect cities to each other by high speed freeways. As a result, the Detroit freeways with an "I" designation were 90% funded by Uncle Sugar [[7.5% by Michigan, and the remainder split between Wayne County and Detroit. The Southfield, Davison, and Lodge did not have any federal support. If you look at the 1940 plans for freeways in Detroit, the Chrysler was originally called the Hastings Freeway.

2. I said that I didn't have any idea as what to do with the 300,000 people because nothing seemed workable. All of the concepts that i laid out were illegal, immoral, or fattening. It is just that those 300,000 are a millstone around the neck of a city which is trying to keep afloat.

3. What is happening is that Gilbert, the illitches, and other developers plus Wayne University have created a Potemkin Village which really looks good, but hides the real deeper problems which have destroyed what once was one of the five great cities of America and which is holding back its true growth.

[Canadian Visitor]

I'll take my shot.

Any exercise is this sort of prognostication is destined to be no better than 1/2 right, and largely informed by whether one has a hopeful or dark perspective of the future.

I will apply a hopeful lense as to to where I think Detroit could be, two decades out.

Broadly, I think Detroit will show both economic recovery and first stability and later some real population growth. I won't peg exact numbers, but I think there's room for a meaningful uptick.

Aside from Detroit's own recovery in services, relative taxation, and improved safety, I think increasing temperatures and droughts will see a shift away from sunbelt states and create a natural advantage for those on the Great Lakes.

In terms of specifics.

- I'd like to think something is worked out allowing for more rational local government structure in Detroit. Either with a single region for the urbanized area, which would handle transit, EMS, police and waste and/or fewer local governments. At the minimum I'd like to think Highland Park and Hamtramck would be seamlessly integrated into to Detroit proper. The realism of this hope has been debated elsewhere, but I will hold out hope.

- Freeway removal for 1-375 for sure, and hopefully the lower part of Lodge. This would allow much more seamless integration of neighbourhoods w/in Detroit and provide opportunities for development and park space.

- Growth of the Riverfront greenspace system to at least Miliken to the Ambassador Bridge, preferably w/one more space large enough to have some real nature in it, including a natural river bank w/riverene wetlands.

- Hopefully, and if Detroit is again on the path to success, I would argue this will be essential, meaningful transit has been brought forward. I would characterize this as, one-bus system for the region w/seamless fares, mixing local and express routes and typically offering service no worse than 30m frequency, 15 on major routes, 7-day, all-day service. As well as one further extension of Q Line, and getting limited commuter rail service up and running.

- I'll throw a total flyer out and say, Zug Island is closed to industrial use, and is fully remediated as a state/national park!

- a creek is partially daylighted [[I'll let those my knowledgeable decide which one)

- Yes, finally, Michigan Central is fully restored, including active train operation.

- Poverty still exists, and not every area has been rebuilt, but the worst of the blight has subsided, and poverty is substantially reduced in both in quantity and severity.

- Contributing to this are a reinvestment in public education, universal, free preschool, enhanced free or cheap after-school programs, a higher minimum wage adjusted for inflation, paid sick days, enhanced family leave, and an expanded EITC at the Federal level.