Your "White Flight" Story

[ABetterDetroit]

I'm intrigued with the offense taken to the term "White Flight" by a number of the posters on this thread.

I never considered this to be a loaded/offensive etc. term. I have always thought of it similar to the term "Great Migration", or other descriptions and terms that are used to define a large movement of people from one place to another.

I am white myself. Most of my grandparents/parents/aunts/uncles used to live in the city of Detroit, and moved out to the suburbs during the "White Flight" period. I feel like the term "White Flight" has been used to describe this for as long as I can remember, and I don't recall any of my family members being offended by that term. I certainly have never been offended by that term. That has just been the colloquial term for it for as long as I can remember...

Excellent post. Never saw it as derogatory term in the slightest. It was something that happened in history, not a insult.

[Honky Tonk]

I'm intrigued with the offense taken to the term "White Flight" by a number of the posters on this thread.

I never considered this to be a loaded/offensive etc. term. I have always thought of it similar to the term "Great Migration", or other descriptions and terms that are used to define a large movement of people from one place to another.

I am white myself. Most of my grandparents/parents/aunts/uncles used to live in the city of Detroit, and moved out to the suburbs during the "White Flight" period. I feel like the term "White Flight" has been used to describe this for as long as I can remember, and I don't recall any of my family members being offended by that term. I certainly have never been offended by that term. That has just been the colloquial term for it for as long as I can remember...

The implication, erikd, is "White" people did something wrong and it's their fault. They're "racists" that "abandoned" Detroit because they didn't like the skin color of their neighbors. Though some were/are, that isn't a true picture of what was going on and what and why Detroit's mass exodus happened. It's another media attempt to rewrite and manipulate Detroit's history. I hope that clarifies it for you.

[Meddle]

If anything, mine was 'Urban Flight'. I was between jobs, saw the chance to make a quick buck on the house and found a place way out in the country that I preferred. I hadn't really planned on 'fleeing' as such and if I had still been working, I might not have even looked.

There was an added issue of getting away from a certain person, but that may have worked itself out eventually also.

If I hadn't found that chance to jump on the housing price bubble, I might still be there. Mortgage would have been paid off by now, so who knows.

NO chance I'll ever move back to a city. Any city. At least not willingly.

I like not having neighbors 30' either side of me.

[Packman41]

I'm intrigued with the offense taken to the term "White Flight" by a number of the posters on this thread.

Hello erikd: Since you chose my quote, perhaps I should respond.

I would also second what Honky Tonk wrote. The implication by those folks calling it “White Flight” is that those who left Detroit are, “…racists" that "abandoned" Detroit because they didn't like the skin color of their neighbors.” And that could not be farther from the truth.

Same could be said for those using the term “Weatlh Flight.” That, somehow, someway, those folks that wanted something different, left Detroit in order to make their neighbors poorer and the city less livable – on PURPOSE. From my observations, those that claimed, “Wealth Flight” were the same folks that denied the “Trickle Down” theory of economics. So, if there is no wealth trickling down, then how would a person leaving town have a negative effect on me?

If the folks using these terms really meant to say “Great Migration,“ then they would have called it that.

Instead, they chose racially-tinged adjectives and described moving to the suburbs in an irrational panic - as in FLIGHT. But, by using those specific terms, they want to perpetuate their agenda of victimhood.

Maybe you didn’t understand it that way because, as you say, “… it was colloquial term for it for as long as I can remember...“ Perhaps, now is the time to speak to those with an agenda.

[313WX]

The faux outrage is ridiculous.

The fact is most of the people who fled the city at the time happened to be white. Thus, the term "White Flight" was coined to describe it. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's really not that complicated.

[Hermod]

There is the implication that those who moved out of the city in essence "stole their assets and resources" from those who remained.

[canuck]

If anything, mine was 'Urban Flight'. I was between jobs, saw the chance to make a quick buck on the house and found a place way out in the country that I preferred. I hadn't really planned on 'fleeing' as such and if I had still been working, I might not have even looked.

There was an added issue of getting away from a certain person, but that may have worked itself out eventually also.

If I hadn't found that chance to jump on the housing price bubble, I might still be there. Mortgage would have been paid off by now, so who knows.

NO chance I'll ever move back to a city. Any city. At least not willingly.

I like not having neighbors 30' either side of me.

You chose a strange moniker for that. Lol. Just kidding.

I think it depends who lives next to you. In the inner city neighborhoods of Montreal, the houses are mostly rows, so there is little room to wiggle out of an unpleasant situation with a bad neighbor. I have a screwball one who is inoffensive but a nut job nonetheless. When I moved to the city from a suburb 3 yrs ago, I had a worst neighbor and the street was noisier than where I live now, and boring as hell. I think proximity is pretty relative when it comes to problematic neighborliness.

[Meddle]

I think it depends who lives next to you.

Now ... cows, goats, deer, raccoons. No people within a quarter mile and that's only one house [[in each of two directions) that I can't see. Next human neighbor is over a mile.

[O3H]

European immigrants moved out, died out, next generation dispersed.
A wave of Middle Eastern immigrants moved into Detroit/Warren/SterlingHeights and other metropolitan cities. They filled the void.

[rex]

got off a bus at Woodward and something. Was a few blocks north of by the gas station there. Soon after my feet hit pavement a group of 4 or 5 in their late teens or early 20s started running toward me. Snap judgement told me they probably meant to do more than just say hello or wish me a nice day. I had about a block head start and run pretty quick.

[Bham1982]

There is the implication that those who moved out of the city in essence "stole their assets and resources" from those who remained.

It is true that, as families left, they often brought institutions and the like with them, while retaining control of institutions that could not be physically wrested from city limits. So it isn't an entirely false characterization.

[Hermod]

European immigrants moved out, died out, next generation dispersed.
A wave of Middle Eastern immigrants moved into Detroit/Warren/SterlingHeights and other metropolitan cities. They filled the void.

Well, since Detroit once had 1.8 million people and now has less than half of that number, they didn't come anywhere close to "filling the void".

[313WX]

It is true that, as families left, they often brought institutions and the like with them, while retaining control of institutions that could not be physically wrested from city limits. So it isn't an entirely false characterization.

Agreed.

Besides, I consider that characterization unique from the "White Flight" label itself.

[masterblaster]

Hello erikd: Since you chose my quote, perhaps I should respond.

I would also second what Honky Tonk wrote. The implication by those folks calling it “White Flight” is that those who left Detroit are, “…racists" that "abandoned" Detroit because they didn't like the skin color of their neighbors.” And that could not be farther from the truth.

Same could be said for those using the term “Weatlh Flight.” That, somehow, someway, those folks that wanted something different, left Detroit in order to make their neighbors poorer and the city less livable – on PURPOSE. From my observations, those that claimed, “Wealth Flight” were the same folks that denied the “Trickle Down” theory of economics. So, if there is no wealth trickling down, then how would a person leaving town have a negative effect on me?

If the folks using these terms really meant to say “Great Migration,“ then they would have called it that.

Instead, they chose racially-tinged adjectives and described moving to the suburbs in an irrational panic - as in FLIGHT. But, by using those specific terms, they want to perpetuate their agenda of victimhood.

Maybe you didn’t understand it that way because, as you say, “… it was colloquial term for it for as long as I can remember...“ Perhaps, now is the time to speak to those with an agenda.

From 1950 to 2000, Detroit's white population fell from 1,500,000 to 100,000, a decrease of 93%.

From 1950 to 2000, Detroit's black population increased from 300,000 to 775,000, an increase of 260%.

So comparing what happened to the white population from 1950 to 2000, to what happened with the black population, it looks like white flight to me.

It seems that now that all of these black folks have moved to the suburbs the last 15-20 years or so, white folks are trying to use the recent phenomenon of black flight to justify the most extreme case of voluntary withdrawal of one ethnic group from a place this nation has probably ever seen.

[masterblaster]

got off a bus at Woodward and something. Was a few blocks north of by the gas station there. Soon after my feet hit pavement a group of 4 or 5 in their late teens or early 20s started running toward me. Snap judgement told me they probably meant to do more than just say hello or wish me a nice day. I had about a block head start and run pretty quick.

Yikes, what the heck? Are you sure they were coming after you? Were you the only one coming off the bus? Maybe they were targeting someone else who got off the bus or maybe the just made an instant decision to get some cardio in.

[canuck]

Yikes, what the heck? Are you sure they were coming after you? Were you the only one coming off the bus? Maybe they were targeting someone else who got off the bus or maybe the just made an instant decision to get some cardio in.

Nah. They were all wearing Nike Airs, sweats and hoodies.

[cla1945]

Born and raised in Detroit. Went to elementary, junior high school, high school there. Met my spouse who was also born and raised in Detroit. Worshipped in Detroit. Worked for Detroit Fire for 30 years. Bought a house in Detroit, 7/Hayes area. Kids started kindergarten there, then bussing began. When I bought that house, there was a school within eyeshot of my front door that I figured my children would go to, then someone had the bright idea of sending my kid 15 miles from home on a bus to a neighborhood that wasn't so great. After kindergarten, my kids went to parochial school. Services in Detroit were non existent. Kids growing up, neighborhood begins to change, used needles at the park, drug sales on the corners. Our once quiet, clean, friendly neighborhood suddenly went bad. House broken into twice, kids couldn't even ride their bikes around the block or to the park without fear of being attacked. Neighbors on one side tried attacking my kids, intimidating them and us; parked their cars on the front lawn, broke almost every window in their house, wild parties every night, loud music just about breaking my windows. We left the city after I retired, went to a quiet suburb which reminded me of our block in Detroit. Hope it stays this way until they carry me out feet first. Detroit will always be my hometown, I loved it, had great memories there, had a great childhood, great early years with my family, but hate what Detroit has become. If things had stayed the same, I'd still be in that little house near 7/Hayes. Can anyone explain to me why the City went the way it did? Please don't tell me it went bad because of poor, unfortunate citizens didn't have the same breaks I did, or that the economy wasn't the same because that's total BS. I didn't take anything from Detroit that I hadn't already given back in my life's work for the DFD.

[Towne Cluber]

Originally Posted by Hermod There is the implication that those who moved out of the city in essence "stole their assets and resources" from those who remained.

It is true that, as families left, they often brought institutions and the like with them, while retaining control of institutions that could not be physically wrested from city limits. So it isn't an entirely false characterization.

It isn't possible to both retain something as well as steal it.

[Bham1982]

It isn't possible to both retain something as well as steal it.

Perspective matters. When you have a neighborhood institution taken by those fleeing the neighborhood, it isn't inaccurate to characterize such actions as "stealing".

Of course the people doing the taking feel they're retaining "their" institutions. It doesn't require any sort of malicious intent.

When middle class blacks moved to NW Detroit, they [[presumably) valued things like the Jewish Community Center, thriving neighborhood retail and restaurants, privately supported neighborhood parks, community organizations and the like.

When all those things moved to Southfield, I don't doubt many who stayed viewed the relocation of neighorhood amenities as a form of theft; not unlike when toddlers cannot play together nicely so one takes "their" toys and leaves.

[Meddle]

No services .... hmmm, must have been later than I recall.

I remember two trash pickups, one 'trash' where the cans had to be at the street and the other 'rubbish' where the guys went into the back yard to get the cans, too them out to the truck to empty, then carried them back into the yard.

I also remember street sweepers a few times each year down all residential streets

PLD actually maintained street lights and would change lamps within a few days of being told one was out.

Of course that was early to mid 60s before the Mistake of '74.

[Hermod]

When middle class blacks moved to NW Detroit, they [[presumably) valued things like the Jewish Community Center, thriving neighborhood retail and restaurants, privately supported neighborhood parks, community organizations and the like.

Nobody "stole" the thriving retail and restaurants. The incoming population just needed to spend their money and to behave themselves in the retail and restaurants so that the owners of the establishments wouldn't decide to go elsewhere. No one abandons a profitable and safe business to move on.

[3WC]

We moved from Green Acres in the early '70s moved to Bl. Hills [[actually, BH mailing address, but Bl. Twp. and BH schools.)

We loved Green Acres at the time. Typical 3 BR, 2 bath colonial, with 1.5 car garage, and heavily wooded [[but most of the trees lost to Dutch elm disease.) We had great city services as the mayor and the Levin brothers lived in the neighborhood.

Green acres was racially diverse at the time. We had "block clubs" and united against the mostly black realtors who started blockbusting. They were eventually successful and property values decreased. We moved because our family was getting larger, property values were declining, schools were headed for the toilet, and a black friend and neighbor - a doctor - said it was time to go "while the goin is good." His family moved to an affluent area of Southfield and we moved a little further north where many of our other friends had moved. Petty crime was increasing and so was violent crime, but not yet in our neighborhood yet. We sold our home for a slight profit but much less than we could have gotten a year previously, had we not vascilated.

Our decision to move was based strictly on schools, safety and economics, not on racism.

The neighborhood into which we moved was more diverse. Our neighborhood, and the cul de sac on which we lived was populated by expats from India, Scotland, South Korea, and Pakistan [[a couple of foreign docs, obviously.) A black family eventually moved in, relocating from Chicago. Very exciting time for the kids,

[O3H]

There was a Green Acres subdivision near 13 Mile Road and Ryan in Warren,MI
Many nearby also attended the Green Acres Elementary school. Coincidence ?

[cla1945]

No services .... hmmm, must have been later than I recall.

I remember two trash pickups, one 'trash' where the cans had to be at the street and the other 'rubbish' where the guys went into the back yard to get the cans, too them out to the truck to empty, then carried them back into the yard.

I also remember street sweepers a few times each year down all residential streets

PLD actually maintained street lights and would change lamps within a few days of being told one was out.

Of course that was early to mid 60s before the Mistake of '74.

Two trash pickups??? Guys going into back yards getting cans and taking them out to the truck to empty and then returning them back into the yard??? That must have taken place before we bought our house in 1966. I don't ever remember sanitation workers going into yards, even where I was born on the lower Easr side. We had alleys and trash was picked up there. We did have street sweepers once in awhile. I had to petition the city for a streetlight and that took 5 years! When the new mayor was elected in 1974, everything that was running in Detroit like a well oiled wheel [[which wasn't much to begin with) came to a screeching halt.

[3WC]

03H: The Green Acres in Detroit is west of Woodward and south of 8 Mile.

Whoever named them must have had visions of a pastoral setting at the time.