The Big Fat Compendium Of Russiagate Debunkery

[aj3647]

So again, please answer the question. Where is the evidence that Trump colluded with Russia to rig the US election, which is what neoliberals have accused him of doing over the past year?

You find a post where I say that Trump colluded with the Russians to rig the election, and I'll give you an answer. Notice NOWHERE in those posts you dug up did I actually make that claim, now did I? I did say that Russia "interfered" in the election. I did not claim they rigged it. I did not claim that Trump personally was involved. As for the claim that Russia interfered, I provided both links and actual quotes from Republican Senators to back up that assertion.

I won't respond to arguments where you make shit up and falsely attribute it to me and then demand I defend it. I have consistently held the notion here that Russia interfered in the U.S. election. I have never said that the election was outright fixed or that Donald Trump fixed it with Russian help. If you want to claim that I did, then prove it by quoting my own text where I say that.

[313WX]

Notice NOWHERE in those posts you dug up did I actually make that claim, now did I? I did say that Russia "interfered" in the election. I did not claim they rigged it. I did not claim that Trump personally was involved.

LMAO!!! You're such a fucking hack.

You ask me to pull up posts proving that you believe Trump colluded with Russia to rig the elction [[what other fucking reason would someone try to interfere in an election if not to rig it in their favor you idiot!?) and then you try to claim that's not what you meant.

As I said before, I eagerly await the day when people such as yourself who are so obssessed over Trump get your feelings hurt once it's formally announced that Trump didn't collude with Russia for any reason related to the US election.

[bust]

Don't worry AJ, few of the rest of us have trouble understanding what you've written, and understand how it's been misrepresented. No need for further correction.

Many of us are looking forward to the facts the Mueller investigation uncovers. Any patriotic American should want sunlight on what really happened.

I think this is a good analysis of the investigation so far:

Mueller's Silence Cuts Through Noise of Trump Russia Inquiries
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...lent-treatment

Meanwhile Russia continues to work hard to shape American public opinion:

Russia Wants Americans to Doubt Mueller, Experts Warn
http://www.newsweek.com/russia-wants...ts-warn-759195

Their work dovetails perfectly with the Republican attempt to smear the Mueller investigation:

Republicans Are Quietly Putting Their Anti-Mueller Plans into Action
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017...ns-into-action

Looking forward to getting to the bottom of this, taking appropriate corrective action, then putting this unhappy chapter of American history behind us.

[aj3647]

LMAO!!! You're such a fucking hack.

And you're a liar. Couldn't find any posts where I accused Trump of personally collaborating, could you?

Interfering in an election is not the same thing as rigging it. Rigging it would mean something like changing vote totals. Interfering can be something as simple as spreading propaganda online to influence the American electorate. But then again, I have also been falsely accused here by others as claiming that Russia hacked voting machines and changed votes, and I never said that either. Lying seems to be par for the course for you Trump bots. Must take after your Orange Leader in that regard. You and your ilk have no regard for the truth, only in what Dear Leader tells you to believe.

It's sad really. And when Robert Mueller finds that Trump obstructed justice to protect Mike Flynn, you're going to find yourself on the wrong side of history.

It's ok though, even after Watergate and resigning from the Presidency in disgrace, Nixon still had his supporters, as I imagine you all will defend Trump to your dying breaths.

[GMan]

Let's add this to the mix:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ler/965396001/

[313WX]

...even after Watergate and resigning from the Presidency in disgrace, Nixon still had his supporters...

lol at the false equivalency.

There was actually evidence of the crime Nixon was being accused of. Meanwhile, I have yet to see anyone who has accused Trump [[or his campaign) of colluding with Russia in relation to the election provide any evidence of him doing so.

But of course, hell would have to freeze over before you stop being so intellectually dishonest. After all, nothing can stop the "RESIST TRUMP" bullshit, by any means necessary.

[313WX]

And when Robert Mueller finds that Trump obstructed justice to protect Mike Flynn, you're going to find yourself on the wrong side of history.

Please explain how obstruction of justice, assuming Trump is ever charged of the crime, equates to colluding with Russia in relation to the US election?

[313WX]

Interfering in an election is not the same thing as rigging it. Rigging it would mean something like changing vote totals. Interfering can be something as simple as spreading propaganda online to influence the American electorate.

How far did you have to dig up your ass to pull out that shit? "Rigging" in the context of an election only has one meaning, and that is to manipulate the outcome.

Please do tell, what other reason would someone have for interfering in an election if not to manipulate the outcome?

[aj3647]

How far did you have to dig up your ass to pull out that shit? "Rigging" in the context of an election only has one meaning, and that is to manipulate the outcome.

Please do tell, what other reason would someone have for interfering in an election if not to manipulate the outcome?

You're the person using the term "rigging", I've never used that word in the context of Russiagate. I've only ever consistently said "interfered." Which, by the way, is the same word used by Lindsay Graham, John McCain, Marco Rubio, and just about every other Republican not named "Donald Trump." I'm not making any claims that the Senate Intelligence Committee, for example, hasn't already conceded are true.

But to answer your question as to why the Russians would interfere:

1) Perhaps they were trying to change the outcome of the election, but that doesn't necessarily mean they were successful. There were numerous documented instances of Russians attempting to hack state-level voter databases that were unsuccessful. The fact that they were unsuccessful does not mean that the attempt to hack does not count as an attempt to interfere, just that they didn't necessarily succeed.

2) To sow social discord. Many of the targeted Russian ad buys on Facebook were designed to play up American division on hot button social issues like immigration. There was even an anti-immigrant rally in Idaho in August 2016 that was organized by Russia.

3) To cause Americans to lose faith in the integrity of American elections and our system of Democracy. This further ties into #4 below

4) To de-legitimize Hillary Clinton's Presidency in the event that she won. Example: Thousands of Russian bots on Twitter were spreading fake news stories about "voter fraud" on election day last year. “Democrats BUSTED Breaking Election Law on VIDEO in Ohio,” and “BREAKING: Mass Election Fraud, Voting Irregularities and Discrimination Against Trump Voters Reported" were just two examples of fake news headlines propagated by an army of Russian twitter bots on election day.

But yes, there is no way to know for sure that Russia's multi-pronged propaganda campaign to influence the American electorate actually resulted in a changed outcome. Did thousands of people really vote for Trump because of Russian-bought ads they saw on Facebook? That's impossible to know. So hence the term "interference" and not "rigged."

Feel better now? Does that make sense to you? Shall I provide you some links to the Republican Senators who sit on the Intelligence Committee and maybe their words will carry more weight?

[313WX]

But to answer your question as to why the Russians would interfere:

1) Perhaps they were trying to change the outcome of the election...

You finally admit it. Thanks.

2)...

3)...

4...

But they could do all of these things without interfering in the election, whereas they can *ONLY* change the outcome of an election by interfering in it.

But of course I'm sure you knew that. You're just being intentionally daft cuz "RESIST TRUMP!!!"

[aj3647]

You finally admit it. Thanks.

But they could do all of these things without interfering in the election, whereas they can *ONLY* change the outcome of an election by interfering in it.

When a foreign government runs election ads in the United States targeting the American electorate, they are by definition interfering in our election process.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/interfere

to take part in the affairs of others; meddle [[often followed by with or in): to interfere in another's life.

It's OK, word definitions can be tough to figure out sometimes. Like Covfefe.

[313WX]

When a foreign government runs election ads in the United States targeting the American electorate, they are by definition interfering in our election process.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/interfere

That's not what you said in points #2, #3 and #4.

2) To sew social discord. Many of the targeted Russian ad buys on Facebook were designed to play up American division on hot button social issues like immigration. There was even an anti-immigrant rally in Idaho in August 2016 that was organized by Russia.

3) To cause Americans to lose faith in the integrity of American elections and our system of Democracy. This further ties into #4 below

4) To de-legitimize Hillary Clinton's Presidency in the event that she won. Example: Thousands of Russian bots on Twitter were spreading fake news stories about "voter fraud" on election day last year. “Democrats BUSTED Breaking Election Law on VIDEO in Ohio,” and “BREAKING: Mass Election Fraud, Voting Irregularities and Discrimination Against Trump Voters Reported" were just two examples of fake news headlines propagated by an army of Russian twitter bots on election day.

"Sew social discord", causing Americans to lose faith in Democracy and de-legitimizing Hillary Clinton [[which she did a good job of herself) can be done in other ways besides interfering in an election.

[aj3647]

"Sew social discord", causing Americans to lose faith in Democracy and de-legitimizing Hillary Clinton [[which she did a good job of herself) can be done in other ways besides interfering in an election.

I suppose it could, but the Russians chose to achieve those objectives by directly interfering in the U.S. Presidential election by generating fake news websites with stories about the U.S. Presidential race, targeted social media ad buys aimed at Americans, utilizing both paid trolls and automated bots on social media to spread fake news about the election, numerous hacking attempts on voter registration databases at the state level, targeted release of compromising information about U.S. politicians, and various other cyber-espionage and hacking efforts.

Are you denying that the Russians interfered in the election?

[313WX]

Are you denying that the Russians interfered in the election?

All I've said the whole time is that there's been no evidence of it happening yet and knowing that, I've been extremely critical of those who keep pushing the allegations.

[Richard]

All I've said the whole time is that there's been no evidence of it happening yet and knowing that, I've been extremely critical of those who keep pushing the allegations.

Notice how as time goes on the terminology changes?

President Trump wins the election and immediately it is he directly colluded with Putin to win the election,then it was Russian hackers interfered with the voting machines to alter the votes,now as reality kicks in it is becoming more of a Russian interference thing,which has been going on for decades before.

It really has nothing to do with anything other then looking for reasons of non exceptence which justifies the stalling of dealing with the real issues,which in turn creates the next opening of resistance.

Iran,China,North Korea and many others all have the same motives and technology,the only reason Russia was chosen was to tug at the older generations strings that remembered the Cold War.

How many under the age of 30 actually ever gave it a second thought that Russia was a direct threat to the United States?

[oladub]

Prominent neocons who left the Republican Party and supported Hillary seem to have brought their policies along. Witness the Joe McCartyite like acolytes here citing elected Republican neocons "Lindsay Graham, John McCain, Marco Rubio". Was there ever a war McCain, war hero to McCarthyites here, didn't want to involve the US in?

"I have in my hand a list of 205 that were known to the Secretary of State as being members of the Communist Party and who nevertheless are still working and shaping policy in the State Department." -Joe McCarthy 1959

Substitute "Communist" with "Russian" and we have a pretty close fit. There's Russians behind every bush I'm telling you. It matters not that the US has a history of interfering in other countries elections and overthrowing elected governments; even wiretapping Angela Merkel. What hypocrisy! We should, like medieval peons or authoritarian subjects, shield our ears from truth if the source isn't approved by our contemporary McCarthyites suggesting that we should scuttle First Amendment freedom of speech if the source, like Wikileaks, isn't approved because of where such information may have come from. Hillary's loss couldn't be from things like calling Americans 'deplorable' or not campaigning in Wisconsin. Of course not. It was because Russians organized an 1st. Amendment tolerated anti-immigrant rally in Idaho that must have swung Idaho to Trump. It doesn't end there. We should now be on the alert for Americans of Russian descent. Shades of FDR's Japanese American detention camps.

[aj3647]

All I've said the whole time is that there's been no evidence of it happening yet and knowing that, I've been extremely critical of those who keep pushing the allegations.

There's been no evidence?

Hacking and attempted hacking of state-level voter registration databases:

https://www.npr.org/2017/09/22/55295...ussian-hacking

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...016/694719001/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ssian-hackers/

Russian ad buys on Facebook, released by the [[Republican-led) House Intelligence Committee:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/01/u...-facebook.html

https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/1/1...a-facebook-ads

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/03/politi...sin/index.html


Pro-Trump rallies organized by Russia:

http://thehill.com/policy/technology...acebook-report

http://thehill.com/policy/technology...ns-on-facebook


Report from the Director of National Intelligence [[DNI) containing the assessment of the U.S. intelligence community, including the NSA, the FBI, and the CIA:

https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf

U.S Department of Homeland Security report on malicious Russian cyber activity during the 2016 election:

https://www.us-cert.gov/sites/defaul...-2016-1229.pdf


Private cybersecurity firms Symantec, CrowdStrike, Fidelis, FireEye, Mandiant, SecureWorks, and ThreatConnect conclusions of their analysis of the DNC email hack:

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...ack-guccifer-2

Fox News: Russian trolls and bots spreading fake news on Twitter and Facebook:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...d-twitter.html

Twitter releases list of election-related Russian bot accounts:

http://www.newsweek.com/full-list-ru...g-probe-700703

CEOs of Google, Twitter, Facebook testify before Congress about the evidence they uncovered of a coordinated Russian disinformation campaign during the 2016 election:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?436454...a-election-ads


But there's no evidence though, right? I know I know, "fake news." It's all fake news. Everyone's in on it: the entire U.S. Intelligence apparatus, the news media, top private cybersecurity firms, Google, Facebook, Twitter, even Republicans in Congress. They're all in on it. They're all part of the conspiracy to manufacture fake Russian interference all to delegitimize Donald Trump.

You know 313, I'm not asking you to say that the Russians changed the outcome of the election. I'm not asking you to say that Donald Trump colluded with the Russians. All I was asking is if you would simply admit to the simple universal fact that Russia interfered in our election. That's all. Nothing in that statement implies criminal activity on the part of Donald Trump or implies that he did not win the election fairly and legally. It's just a test to see if you are at all capable of acknowledging a fact that you personally don't like.

[313WX]

[[snip)

Trump will be The President of the United State until at least January 20, 2021 [[unless he dies of natural causes or by murder). So get over it.

[TKshreve]

Trump will be The President of the United State until at least January 20, 2021 [[unless he dies of natural causes or by murder). So get over it.

Nice. Very compelling rebuttal.

[aj3647]

Trump will be The President of the United State until at least January 20, 2021 [[unless he dies of natural causes or by murder). So get over it.

He will resign from office or be removed before January 20, 2021. Count on it. Pence is probably already measuring the windows in the Oval Office for new curtains.

Report: Trump ordered Sessions NOT to recuse himself from the Russia investigation and grew furious when he did, stating that it was the AG's responsibility to "defend him."

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...ing-himself-in

Also in the report, Special Counsel Robert Mueller has been able to "substantiate" claims made by James Comey in his private memos.

No longer even a matter of "if" at this point, but simply "when." Trump himself has provided Mueller with all the rope he needs. I predict Trump will be out of office within 12-18 months.

[oladub]

I will guess Trump will still be President in 12 months but question whether he makes it until 2021. Losing the House in 2018 would make Trump less effective in either case. Should the lawyers' coup succeed, then we are left with Pence. That seems like a hollow victory for the left. If the globalists and lawyers do manage to pull off their coup, I would expect resentment in parts of the Country where voters won't like their votes being nullified. Extra police state measures may be required to shore up the coup.

Trump has had a few successes recently. Maybe they will shore him and Republicans up. The stock market is doing well, unemployment is at a 17 year low, black unemployment is at a 20 year low and the unemployment rate gap between blacks and whites has declined to record lows. Coincidentally, the flow of illegal non-citizens and 'refugees' brought here to take entry level jobs has declined. 80% of taxpayers are expected to see their taxes go down. Factories received the most new orders since 2004. Consumer confidence is at a 17 year high. Sales of existing homes reached their fastest pace in 11 years. Maybe voters won't care and will instead choose to vote for Democrats in November. If that doesn't work, the lawyers can decide.

[jcole]

I will guess Trump will still be President in 12 months but question whether he makes it until 2021. Losing the House in 2018 would make Trump less effective in either case. Should the lawyers' coup succeed, then we are left with Pence. That seems like a hollow victory for the left. ..

Yes, it would be somewhat hollow; I'm certainly not looking forward to Pence as Pres. BUT, I'm fairly certain he wouldn't spend his early morning "crapper" hours on the tweety insulting other world leaders, people on his own staff and the military. I think he MIGHT bring some dignity back to the office

[Maof]

"crapper hours on the tweety" hahahahahaha

[Richard]

Yes, it would be somewhat hollow; I'm certainly not looking forward to Pence as Pres. BUT, I'm fairly certain he wouldn't spend his early morning "crapper" hours on the tweety insulting other world leaders, people on his own staff and the military. I think he MIGHT bring some dignity back to the office

Bring some dignity back to the office?

Take some time and watch this and savor the dignity that was brought to the office by a female presidential candidate that is loved by millions and previous administration.

Do you really think that the rest of the world really cares about tweets which given the circumstances are at the bottom of the list in priorities.

We as Americans are a bit spoiled with our first world problems until it comes time to solve our third world problems.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRuSS0iiFyo

[Honky Tonk]

Bring some dignity back to the office?

Take some time and watch this and savor the dignity that was brought to the office by a female presidential candidate that is loved by millions and previous administration.

Do you really think that the rest of the world really cares about tweets which given the circumstances are at the bottom of the list in priorities.

We as Americans are a bit spoiled with our first world problems until it comes time to solve our third world problems.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRuSS0iiFyo

That's really some heavy stuff. I'm hoping it's fake news, a hoax, a skit, but it's probably real. Finally, journalism.